CT Engineering Supercharger

[Hrant]

Since I am an end user and not a vendor, Lysholm went as far as I stated in the previous e-mail. It is "my" understanding that the Autorotor being offered now have not changed in design. Whereas previously the snout was sourced out of Michigan and put together by Comptech USA, now the snout and the Autorotor come together as one package ....... but I am getting out of my league in here ....... :wink:

Whether is it is micro fumes, spewing, spraying or whatever else ........ it is all semantics as we are all having the same "issue" ....... it is a matter of how hard the car is driven that will determine the amount as I don't think the age of the breather will make a difference. I think most who are seeing very little "deposits" are not driving their car as the rest of us :wink:

Another local NSX tracker with Comptech's original Autorotor has the same problem; the amount of oil near and on the timing belt is not acceptable for a tracked car; the potential for the belt to slip is scary even if the probability of this occuring is very small. Also, eventually you will start seeing oil around the oil filter and a few drops on the garage floor. Once we plugged the breather, no more such side effects. YMMV.

 

[ScienceofSpeed]

The Whipple chargers all need to have some way to deal with expansion from heat. You can plug the breather on the snout and the oil will push past the seal in the end of the snout, behind the pulley. This is not a good solution because over time you will get a mist of oil on the belt and cause slippage.

The SOS kit is simple, just makes it so the breathing happens away from the blower.

I don't know how the Autorotor deals with the expansion issue...

hi Dave --

The first batch of kits from CT did not have the breather fitting (we received two such kits). As you alluded to, the oil mist is escaping from the tip of the snout. I believe CT is working on offering the snouts with the breathers for future kits. Thanks for the mention of the breather kits, these work really nice for customers who do have the breathers:

http://www.scienceofspeed.com/produ...ucts/NSX/ScienceofSpeed/Comptech_SC_Breather/

For customers that have the snouts without the breather, they are fairly simple to add by drilling and taping the snout to accept a 1/8 NPT fitting. We are going to do this process to the two we recieved.

thanks,
-- Chris

 

[ScienceofSpeed]

I just purchased and installed that breather kit because I was getting the same rear window mess as the rest of you. The breather kit doesn't seem to work that well. It still hazes up the back window.

If the breather kit is installed, most of the oil vapor is transfered down under the car. You may still get a little from the snout end, but it should be significantly reduced. Check the fluid level in the compressor to make sure it is not over full (which will definitely exasperate this).


Cheers,
-- Chris

 

[JeffShoots]

I don't know why this thread is 2 pages

Hot oil needs to vent just like your motor........so vent high and its on your window. Use SOSs kit and vent low under the car or in a catch can and everyone is happy :smile:

 

[Hrant]

I don't know why this thread is 2 pages

Hot oil needs to vent just like your motor........so vent high and its on your window. Use SOSs kit and vent low under the car or in a catch can and everyone is happy :smile:

Perhaps because the engineers at Lysholm who designed the Autorotor now decided that a breather is no longer needed?

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=43169&d=1213495076

YMMV

 

[JeffShoots]

......Shad plugged the breather on my snout a few weeks ago as the spewing all over the timing belt etc.............But how long such a set up (i.e., plugged) will cause premature wear of the internal seals as the pressure built up with 13K revs is noticeable - you will hear the hissing sound when you open the cap.

Perhaps because the engineers at Lysholm who designed the Autorotor now decided that a breather is no longer needed.

No you decided YOU didn't want a breather.

Now you are getting unwanted pressure back in your blower and Lysholm won't give a rats a$$ as you have no warrenty :tongue:

"hissing sound when you open the cap" proves this point :redface:
Now put a hose on the proper vent to a low catch can away from your belts and be happy your not damaging the blower.

This would be an expensive lesson for ~$20 in parts OR ~8k for a new blower

 

[Hrant]

No you decided YOU didn't want a breather.

Wow, easy there ......... you may want to read the entire posts and not use selectively what suits your response :wink:

Because both Shad and I were concerned by the amount of "mist," we did our homework. I am not going to speak on behalf of Shad, but we both did talk to a nationally recognized superchager repair shop who initially said the breather should be centered in the pulley's bolt by drilling a hole so it can vent more properly ......... after he realized that the car will be on the track also, he said that option would not work and then suggested the gravity method. Unfortunately, this limits the options for an NSX.

I went a step further and did my homework by contacting Autorotor/Lysholm. Gave them all the options that we had come thus far. And I repeat:

A few weeks ago, I exchanged several e-mails with Lysholm re this same question, the gist of their response is: the plugged solution works in most cases, but every application is unique. Based on the past history of one vendor delivering successful installation with non vented oil cavities one would assume that it works - however, they have no records though on their endurance test activities for this application. No guarantees and no warranties. YMMV.

I should have added than when I shared with them SOS's option - offered them the web page link, they noted that both the SOS kit or the plug meant that I was messing with the supercharger (the version I have) as it was delivered from Lysholm; hence the warranty would be void. I was not concerned about the warranty; I wanted to find a solution - preferably their solution. But more interestingly, they also noted that it was simpler to just replace the bleeder with a plug. Yep! But they also asked that their vendors/retailers should pursue such inquiries.

And as Chris mentioned, some of the Whipple CTSC did not come with a breather, and I don't believe ever reading problems with them as far as the breather is concerned.

Now, having said this, do I think the SOS kit works?

James, for the most part the SOS solution/option would work for those who don't push it ....... but I am concerned given the amount of mist/spewing at the track, if that options wouldn't lend itself to the "potential" of a fire if it hit the hot exhaust regularly, or a nice 360 spin if it got on the tires/brakes based on how long it spewed and how the wind was blowing and how often the areas are cleaned ...... Chances of this happening probably minuscule ........ but it is all about risk management according to each driver's concerns. ........

So, yes a breather would help but what type/location? The exchanges in here among the interested parties is to find out what changed in Lysholm's thinking, and perhaps offer other equally workable options. I am sure if an engine blows up because of back pressure or the supercharger seals break because now there is no plug they would not be happy "legally" given how they delivered it hence the warranty. But we all would prefer to avoid finding ourselves in that boat by digging a bit deeper with the anlaysis than what is convenient albeit not addressing the underlying change by the manufacturer.

As I said YMMV

 

[JeffShoots]

I did read all the posts and Shad knows the SC (also why his cars are going turbo lower intake temps) thats why Kips bower is in the for sale sec :smile:

The SC builds heat. I don't think you could blow the motor but you are adding heat to the intake?

I just would not be advising people to plug the vent just direct it somewhere other than the belt/glass area.

 

[PhiAlpha44]

Geez, then it sounds like I just don't get into boost as often as I should for as long as I should :redface: because I've never had one bit of oil in my engine comnpnartment! I guess there's a good and bad to everything: I'm not getting the oil residue but I'm not using my car as it's capable of being used :frown:

J

No, you're just lucky as hell. Ask Source1. I'm easy on my car too, AND I have the SOS breather and it STILL fogs up.

 

[PhiAlpha44]

It's a stone filter the same material as what was used as a fuel flter in Rochester carburetors years back.

Really? Crazy. It looks like a bunch of little rods. But if you say it's stone (must be something porous)

If the breather kit is installed, most of the oil vapor is transfered down under the car. You may still get a little from the snout end, but it should be significantly reduced. Check the fluid level in the compressor to make sure it is not over full (which will definitely exasperate this).
Cheers,
-- Chris

My oil is at the correct level. The SOS kit is installed, and in theory it should work. That's why I bought it. My rear window still fogs up, with the SOS breather kit installed AND my engine cover on.

I don't know why this thread is 2 pages

Hot oil needs to vent just like your motor........so vent high and its on your window. Use SOSs kit and vent low under the car or in a catch can and everyone is happy :smile:

I'm using it Jeff. It doesn't work.

I did read all the posts and Shad knows the SC (also why his cars are going turbo lower intake temps) thats why Kips bower is in the for sale sec :smile:

The SC builds heat. I don't think you could blow the motor but you are adding heat to the intake?

I just would not be advising people to plug the vent just direct it somewhere other than the belt/glass area.

Regardless of my hatch glass.... I'm not going to be plugging anything on the car that is used to reduce the amount of heat somewhere. But it's hard being a neat freak about my car, and spending money on the "highest quality" stuff you expect certain things. Me cleaning my rear hatch every week and being unable to keep un-hazy for the length of a road trip was not in my plans when I boosted my car. Neither was oil seepage from where the blower mounts on the manifold. You put a 10 thousand dollar part on something and I don't think you expect oil to be going everywhere. And no I'm not selling the CTSC. I'm just not completely satisfied with it. I've spent money to make my car better and now I have to clean constantly. Not sure how they're supposed to correlate with one another.

 

[BioBanker]

Youre seeping between the blower and the manifold? Is that junction even accessible to charger oil or is that seeping up from the engine?

Maybe that is the source of your problem. I have no windown clouding issues and I would describe the "spray" out of the charger snout vent as minimal. I get some clouding on the Downforce lexan engine cover right above the pulley, but not much. Nothign on the rear window glass or the hatch glass.

Could your problem be the seepage of the oil between the motor and the charger burning or whatever? Is there a way for you to determine which oil is seeping? Can you add something to the oil and use a black light or something to tell?

 

[SOURCE 1]

Me cleaning my rear hatch every week and being unable to keep un-hazy for the length of a road trip was not in my plans when I boosted my car. Neither was oil seepage from where the blower mounts on the manifold. You put a 10 thousand dollar part on something and I don't think you expect oil to be going everywhere


KYLE,

If you have an oil leak you need to get your car out here next time you get it out of its protective bubble. DO NOT mess with oil leaks anywhere on that car now that its boosted! Get ahold of me. We need to locate your leak..

 

[TURBO2GO]

I'm using it Jeff. It doesn't work.

You are using it with the wrong expectations then. No one said it's going to stop your rear glass from hazing. I don't know what the hazing is from, but I doubt it is from the snout's breather. Especially if you have an engine cover. Sounds like you have an oil leak with the CTSC at the manifold which is NOT normal. I don't have it and I don't get a haze either. Just the normal stuff you get from dirty air like you get on the windsheild. Frankly I am amazed at how clean my rear glass stays exposed to the engine and the road underneath. The oil we are discussing here is a spray from the snout, and the SOS kit seems to fix that for the most part.

 

[BioBanker]

Something is vaporizing the oil back there. I wonder if it is actually engine oil leaking upward from the manifold and turning into vapour via heat, which is the only way it would get past your engine cover to the rear glass.

Is it possible that your engine cover is melting slowly somewhere?

I used to get a very oily residue on the inside of my windshield in my old old old old civic. However it happened, oil rich air was being blown through the vents onto it.

I would try to confirm which oil it is in short order. It could very well be an engine oil issue, not charger oil.

 

[ScienceofSpeed]

My oil is at the correct level. The SOS kit is installed, and in theory it should work. That's why I bought it. My rear window still fogs up, with the SOS breather kit installed AND my engine cover on.

I'm unsure what you mean by "fogs up". Are you referring to condensation or oil vapor accumulating on the glass?

I don't see how with a breather kit installed and the engine cover installed that oil vapor could escape from under the engine cover and accumulate on the glass.

If you're referring to fogging as condensation, then this has nothing to do with the supercharger or the breather kit. If you're getting oil vapor on the glass still with the engine cover in place, then something is definitely not right with either your supercharger or engine. If that's the case, I'd recommend further investigation.

-- Chris

 

[Hrant]

Kyle, I agree with Chris' assessment. Perhaps you already answered this in one of your posts, but you sure the fog is oil and not perhaps water condensation? And exactly where is it located on the Lexan?

FWIW, the Autorotor is NOT immune to leakage at the manifold or between the two chambers.

 

[PhiAlpha44]

1000% it's oil not condensation. Greasy a greasy film. Like hand prints on a window.

 

[02#154]

No, you're just lucky as hell. Ask Source1. I'm easy on my car too, AND I have the SOS breather and it STILL fogs up.

Since you drive your car gently most of the time, if I were in your position I would plug the vent in the snout with a true bolt. Eliminate the source and you eliminate a potential cause of the oily mist. Also, perhaps your "exit" for the SOS solution is no longer or never was pointing downwards or down low enough?

At any rate, see if plugging the vent altogether eliminates the trouble. If not, you know it's not the vent. If so, then double-check the installation of the SOS solution... or just drive with it unvented (plugged).

J

 

[ScienceofSpeed]

Since you drive your car gently most of the time, if I were in your position I would plug the vent in the snout with a true bolt. Eliminate the source and you eliminate a potential cause of the oily mist. Also, perhaps your "exit" for the SOS solution is no longer or never was pointing downwards or down low enough?

At any rate, see if plugging the vent altogether eliminates the trouble. If not, you know it's not the vent. If so, then double-check the installation of the SOS solution... or just drive with it unvented (plugged).

J

The pulley bolt (if yours is like the others we have installed) is not vented. The vapor escapes through oil seals. The vapor is discharged through these seals because it is under pressure from expansion inside the crankcase of the supercharger.

PhiAlpha44 -- I understand your frustration, but you should note that I have never seen an Autorotor supercharged NSX with the extent of vapor release like what you are speaking of which makes your circumstance unusual. We've completed quite a few installs here from your bone-stock to installs making 400+ wheel hp.

-- Chris

 

[JeffShoots]

You are using it with the wrong expectations then. No one said it's going to stop your rear glass from hazing. I don't know what the hazing is from, but I doubt it is from the snout's breather. Especially if you have an engine cover. Sounds like you have an oil leak with the CTSC at the manifold which is NOT normal. I don't have it and I don't get a haze either. Just the normal stuff you get from dirty air like you get on the windsheild. Frankly I am amazed at how clean my rear glass stays exposed to the engine and the road underneath. The oil we are discussing here is a spray from the snout, and the SOS kit seems to fix that for the most part.

Turbos right,
You have more going on than a vent leak.

 

[Hrant]

The pulley bolt (if yours is like the others we have installed) is not vented. The vapor escapes through oil seals. The vapor is discharged through these seals because it is under pressure from expansion inside the crankcase of the supercharger.

<snip>
-- Chris

Well Chris, then I guess one has to ask the pressing and begging question yet again, why did Lysholm eliminate the breather in the snout? What changed and more importantly why?

Last I heard, they were waiting to hear from the vendors/retailers to answer such questions ....... and I know some stay up late till the wee morning hours to make the phone call connections ..... :wink:

 

[ScienceofSpeed]

Well Chris, then I guess one has to ask the pressing and begging question yet again, why did Lysholm eliminate the breather in the snout? What changed and more importantly why?

Last I heard, they were waiting to hear from the vendors/retailers to answer such questions ....... and I know some stay up late till the wee morning hours to make the phone call connections ..... :wink:

Per CT - Lysholm never put the vents in the snouts. This was done by a supplier in the US that CT purchased the drives from. The last batch was first they purchased the compressor + the snout directly from Lysholm. I believe CT is working on this now - so they should be contacted for any information on this. I don't want to put words in their mouthes.

 

[Hrant]

Per CT - Lysholm never put the vents in the snouts. This was done by a supplier in the US that CT purchased the drives from. The last batch was first they purchased the compressor + the snout directly from Lysholm. I believe CT is working on this now - so they should be contacted for any information on this. I don't want to put words in their mouthes.

Yes, absolutely. I had already shared my info/correspondence and contact with CT at the time, and CT was corresponding with a different engineer at Lysholm.

 

[TURBO2GO]

Per CT - Lysholm never put the vents in the snouts. This was done by a supplier in the US that CT purchased the drives from.

Now I understand what happened to the first CTSC that was installed in my car and was DOA because it "ingested" some plastic-like material (according to Lysholm's service dept). Most likely this happened at the US supplier installing the breathers. In any event, driven hard quite a bit of pressure is building up to flow out of the breather. I would not want an autorotor without it. I'd rather wipe a little oil off once in a while.

 

[Commander]

Me cleaning my rear hatch every week and being unable to keep un-hazy for the length of a road trip was not in my plans when I boosted my car. Neither was oil seepage from where the blower mounts on the manifold. You put a 10 thousand dollar part on something and I don't think you expect oil to be going everywhere

As I have been following this thread, I have to completely agree with the statement above... You pay 10K for a SC from CT-Engineering, it should not leak anything, this in my opinion is a design flaw. The Whipple based system didn't leak anything, CT-Engineering claims OEM build quality and reliability. My opinion is that this doesn't meet those claims, auto manufactures would not release a system that has a leak, especially with today's automotive standards and reliability requirements. Could you imagine the warranty repair cost associated with this.

My opinion is everyone that has one of these systems that is leaking should contact CT-Engineering and demand that they correct the design and or provide a fix for free. Something like this should fall under warranty. You shouldn't have to buy a breather kit from SOS to fix what shouldn't be an issue in the beginning although I applaud them for bring the product to market in an attempt to help everyone out with this issue; guarantee Honda or Acura wouldn't accept this design, I don't think any of you should either.