I agree with that. There is a super small oil leak on the mounting plate. I will check to see if the hazyness goes away once it's found. I have no coolant leaks.
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CT Engineering Supercharger
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I won't be doing this. I'm not plugging up anything that was designed to remove head from the SC because of the inconvenience of a dirty rear window.
I don't have oil spraying about or a dirty engine compartment Chris... I just have to clean my rear window once or twice a week depending on how much it's driven. Either way, I'm going to try to source the small oil leak at the mounting plate and see what happens.
Kyle purchased the SC from another prime memeber not from CT. From what I know the previous owner had noted the same leak on his car that Kyle is seeing. Either way I have spoken to Kyle and he is getting his car to me asap to diag the leak.. I dont think the breather has anything to do with his complaint. If the oil is leaking on the manifold more than likely it is just turning into an oily steam and rising at that point going on his rear window.
The Autorotor unit is not immunie to a bit of oil leakage at the manifold or between the two chambers. When I had the CTSC on my car, I had a bit of a "leak" if you want to call it that. Engine oil was never low. I never had a film on my windshield. And I never had oil on the belts.
We uninstalled and inspected, and reinspected, and reinspected the blower assembly again and again. There was nothing wrong at all with the blower or with the car. I had spoken with Shad about this over the phone, and he too admited that the Autorotors can have a bit of oil residue, aka "leak", at the manifold or between the two chambers.
I think people are making a mountain out of a mole hill here on this thread. If you want to pay to join the FI ranks, there will be little "issues" that may arise. Nothing is perfect in this game. And the NSX is no exception to that rule. I dont care if the part costs $20,000.
My autorotor also "bled" a bit of oil at the snout. I would wipe away a very, very small amount every week. I would also check the blower oil level every week, and it was NEVER low. Not once.
We uninstalled and inspected, and reinspected, and reinspected the blower assembly again and again. There was nothing wrong at all with the blower or with the car. I had spoken with Shad about this over the phone, and he too admited that the Autorotors can have a bit of oil residue, aka "leak", at the manifold or between the two chambers.
I think people are making a mountain out of a mole hill here on this thread. If you want to pay to join the FI ranks, there will be little "issues" that may arise. Nothing is perfect in this game. And the NSX is no exception to that rule. I dont care if the part costs $20,000.
My autorotor also "bled" a bit of oil at the snout. I would wipe away a very, very small amount every week. I would also check the blower oil level every week, and it was NEVER low. Not once.
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Nathan, Trust me I was not saying that you shouldn't pay to play the FI game. I have built and turboed more than a handlful of vehicles and know that saying very well having lived it.. More than once. I am concerened about Kyles leaking more than normal. He is rather OCD about his windows so its probably nothing but if he is describing a leak there I want to personally inspect it because we did the install here. I have heard of a small seepage there however Kyle is explaining more of a leak. If his window if "filming" past the engine cover then I want to know why. If its breather issue or leak issue I would like to know to try tio cure it because he is a customer/friend and I want him to be happy with his car. ( if thats possible) :biggrin:
As Nathan also confirmed what I said earlier, the Autorotor post is not immune to leaks/seepage. I had a minor leak showing at the manifold and Shad resolved it - it was coming from the chambers; Lysholm - the manufacturer could have done a better job but it is what it is.
As for the snout spewing, let's not get too hasty in posting who is to blame and what warranty should cover what. For whatever it is worth, let us be clear of the following:
1) CT Engineering is NOT Comptech USA. I believe we all know this right?
2) If you purchased your Autorotor from Comptech USA or second hand from another owner, then your snout DID come with a bleeder. So if you are concerned about the spewing you are on your own UNLESS someone steps up to the plate with solutions. SOS has offered one such solution which should work well for most. And if a $20 fix is too much to swallow, then you probably have more serious issues ......
3) The new Autorotors offered by CT Engineering do not have a breather and therefore do NOT spew. Hence, CT Engineering can't be blamed for a product or something that has NO problem as of now. Assuming a problem must/will exist in the future is pushing it beyond reasonableness. However, asking WHY the new packaged supercharger does not include a breather is germane engineering/physics application question because it is the same Autorotor.
4) Having said (3), CT Engineering as a courtesy to the old and new Autorotor products on the market, is checking into this with Lysholm. I think they should be credited for this.
Having personally communicated with Lysholm, I can tell you that it is not that easy to resolve this by e-mails or the difference in hours between the two countries. So while we explore constructive "thoughts" on this thread as to who is experiencing what, why and what might work for most street applications vs. what might need further tweaking for those who track their car, let's be a bit patient and give the vendors/guru mechanics some time.
Just my $0.02. YMMV.
As for the snout spewing, let's not get too hasty in posting who is to blame and what warranty should cover what. For whatever it is worth, let us be clear of the following:
1) CT Engineering is NOT Comptech USA. I believe we all know this right?
2) If you purchased your Autorotor from Comptech USA or second hand from another owner, then your snout DID come with a bleeder. So if you are concerned about the spewing you are on your own UNLESS someone steps up to the plate with solutions. SOS has offered one such solution which should work well for most. And if a $20 fix is too much to swallow, then you probably have more serious issues ......
3) The new Autorotors offered by CT Engineering do not have a breather and therefore do NOT spew. Hence, CT Engineering can't be blamed for a product or something that has NO problem as of now. Assuming a problem must/will exist in the future is pushing it beyond reasonableness. However, asking WHY the new packaged supercharger does not include a breather is germane engineering/physics application question because it is the same Autorotor.
4) Having said (3), CT Engineering as a courtesy to the old and new Autorotor products on the market, is checking into this with Lysholm. I think they should be credited for this.
Having personally communicated with Lysholm, I can tell you that it is not that easy to resolve this by e-mails or the difference in hours between the two countries. So while we explore constructive "thoughts" on this thread as to who is experiencing what, why and what might work for most street applications vs. what might need further tweaking for those who track their car, let's be a bit patient and give the vendors/guru mechanics some time.
Just my $0.02. YMMV.
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hi Hrant --
Not to add to the confusion (I agree with the mole hill comment) but this is not true. The latest run of of kits using the compressors with out the breather on the snout leak oil from the tip (near the pulley) out of the oil seal probably from expansion in the gear case. These compressors have a port on top of the gear case that we be testing one of our breather kits on to see if this helps. Having some type of breather makes sense on a sealed chamber that will see pressure from heat. I don't think the oil shaft seals are designed to have back pressure from the chamber.
Cheers,
-- Chris
Source,
I agree with you. I was just stating that some people consider what is normal to be abnormal. That is all I meant. If Kyle's car has an abnormal leak, then yes there is a problem. But, if there is some minor seepage at the manifold, that is relatively normal, even on autorotors. If it is splatting on his rear window, then of course that is not normal. I never had any splatter or oil residue marks on my rear glass. And that was with the engine cover being permanantly removed.
I think that is great about making your customer happy. I definitely wasnt trying to say anything negative about your install or your knowledge. So, I just want to clarify that in this post.
Take care.
Nathan
Well, Chris, one learns something new everyday ....... this is news to me but I guess your earlier post referred to it and I missed it.
Now to be more specific, and engineering is not my forte so I will ask in very elementary terms, is the new compressor any different from the previous ones except for the breather?
The recommendation from one supercharger repair shop was that having a breather on top of the snout would by design push oil/oil-mist out, whereas if the breathing was through the bolt (a service that he provides by drilling) it would most likely "breath" out the pressure but not the oil. However, if the car is being tracked especially with R compound/slicks, this would not be a satisfactory solution given the "g" loads ........
Hrant --
The new compressors we received are identical to prior units.
The breather port in the pulley bolt is fairly common. Other screw compressors do the same thing. Whether the breather port is in the bolt or on top of the oil gearcase should be irrelevant as far as how much vapor can escape since the entire chamber is pressurized. I would think that pulling this port away from the pulley as much as possible and putting it on top of the chamber would be ideal to reduce the chance of the belt slipping from oil residue. I also would believe that the higher in the chamber the better to prevent any slosh from escaping the port under lateral Gs.
-- Chris
Nathan,
That's where the leak is, between the blower and the manifold plate. Again, I wiped a little oil away ONE TIME. But I bet I've cleaned by back glass 4 times since I've had it installed. There has been no "splattering" of oil anywhere, including the bottom of the engine cover.
Brian, before I bring it up, I'll make sure I don't clean the rear hatch, that way you'll see exactly what it's doing. And yes it's POSSIBLE for me to be happy with my car.. and speaking of happy... the stereo makes a ticking sound that goes faster with the RPM's as they climb. Can we have Justin look at this. :wink:
That's where the leak is, between the blower and the manifold plate. Again, I wiped a little oil away ONE TIME. But I bet I've cleaned by back glass 4 times since I've had it installed. There has been no "splattering" of oil anywhere, including the bottom of the engine cover.
Brian, before I bring it up, I'll make sure I don't clean the rear hatch, that way you'll see exactly what it's doing. And yes it's POSSIBLE for me to be happy with my car.. and speaking of happy... the stereo makes a ticking sound that goes faster with the RPM's as they climb. Can we have Justin look at this. :wink:
Is there a way to determine which oil it is, charger or engine?
I wouldn't go that far. This is a breather. It's not a "leak". Engines have these too, we don't call them faulty. This is a very very minor issue, and I think the interest in the thread is to find out why that breather is there and why it was moved. Now I think that was made clear by Chris, and it sounds like they moved it to a worse location. Honestly taking a towel and wiping some minor film off the snout once every three weeks for someone wanting a super clean engine is no big deal.
You can get a sample and send it it to a lab, they can probably tell you after a test. Or you can use your common sense, and know that if it is between the intake manifold and blower, its most likely SC oil. hahaha... :biggrin:
Okay, I can agree with this statement. Engines on the other hand have a recirculation system built in or rather a PCV valve to relieve the pressure. I also agree that there needs to be a way to relieve the pressure or risk pushing the excess pressure past the seals which will obviously contain oil mist, it has to go somewhere. Maybe some sort of a catch can type system, albeit a very small one could be devised that would catch all the vapor and allow a person to see just how much oil they have lost over time.
Not sure how the Whipple system worked but this seems to be a new issue related only to the Autorotor based SC. I'm sure that CT-Engineering will work hard to insure that this minor annoying issue is somehow corrected, on a personal note though, I think it's important that they understand how many people are affected so that the issue stays a top priority for current and future customers.
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I also have mobil 1 full synthetic in the car, and royal purple in the blower.
And I love how people have begun calling me Philadelphia. How is that exactly? :wink:
My mistake. No offense intended. Good luck with your SC and oil problems.
Is there any reason why the "breather" or "expansion" system can't be sealed? Such a solution would be the best of both worlds - expansion allowed, no mess.
Instead of the bolts on snouts that let vapor through or similar from SOS (albeit at the end of a long tube, so you can put the vent elsewhere) I'm picturing a tube that terminates into something that is sealed but can easily physically expand (rigid canister with plunger, something non-rigid like a bag made of an easily-deformable material tolerant of high temperatures and oil...like silicon, the right kind and thickness of metal, etc). I mean, the area of the cavity in question can be measured, we can know how much air and oil is in it, and we can know what kind of temperature range could be encountered...which means we'd know how much expansion would need to be accounted for. Mount this so fluid would drain down (back) to the SC and the oil lost into it would return.
If there is air being forced into this cavity from some external source (i.e. the charged side of the SC), this wouldn't hold up...but I'm under the impression we're talking about expansion (and contraction) from heat (and later cooling)...not some kind of constant positive blow-through.
Instead of the bolts on snouts that let vapor through or similar from SOS (albeit at the end of a long tube, so you can put the vent elsewhere) I'm picturing a tube that terminates into something that is sealed but can easily physically expand (rigid canister with plunger, something non-rigid like a bag made of an easily-deformable material tolerant of high temperatures and oil...like silicon, the right kind and thickness of metal, etc). I mean, the area of the cavity in question can be measured, we can know how much air and oil is in it, and we can know what kind of temperature range could be encountered...which means we'd know how much expansion would need to be accounted for. Mount this so fluid would drain down (back) to the SC and the oil lost into it would return.
If there is air being forced into this cavity from some external source (i.e. the charged side of the SC), this wouldn't hold up...but I'm under the impression we're talking about expansion (and contraction) from heat (and later cooling)...not some kind of constant positive blow-through.
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None takin'. I was just kidding. You're not the first. :wink:
We're testing the port on the top of the compressor as shown here. The thread is different than the port on the snout on prior units requiring a different fitting, but the concept is the same.
Cheers,
-- Chris
Cheers,
-- Chris
Chris, you had to start this up again :redface:
I think it's a great idea. The SC needs a vent of some type.
I do want to hear an update from PhiAlpha44? Seems he has a compressor to manifold leak without any warranty? I don't know anyone other than Shad that might know of a shop that can resurface the manifold plate or???
Here is an interesting observation ...........
Apparently in 2007 a new plumbing code has been added that requires all water heaters to have a safety thermal expansion tank. I know because we just changed my parents' 16 year old water heater and the new code requirements are an eye opener for this 80 year old West LA house
The engineering/physics rationale is that the 50 gallon ambient water when heated to 120F will expand by about 1 gallon which will be all in the pipes and hence may cause pipes to burst (most LA homes are old). Hence they mounted a 2.1 gallon mini tank (like a propane tank) on top of the heater which works by gravity.
Now surely someone in here can calculate how much the SC oil in the SC/snout will expand (13K RPM and presumably 250F?) and this will be similar to Latzke's elastic breather pouch or the gravity catch can idea - as other alternatives.
Apparently in 2007 a new plumbing code has been added that requires all water heaters to have a safety thermal expansion tank. I know because we just changed my parents' 16 year old water heater and the new code requirements are an eye opener for this 80 year old West LA house
The engineering/physics rationale is that the 50 gallon ambient water when heated to 120F will expand by about 1 gallon which will be all in the pipes and hence may cause pipes to burst (most LA homes are old). Hence they mounted a 2.1 gallon mini tank (like a propane tank) on top of the heater which works by gravity.
Now surely someone in here can calculate how much the SC oil in the SC/snout will expand (13K RPM and presumably 250F?) and this will be similar to Latzke's elastic breather pouch or the gravity catch can idea - as other alternatives.
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My understanding is that there is a (rubber?) bladder inside the thing filled with air (hence the "tire valive" on the one end). Gas (air) compresses better than liquid (water) so it can take the water's expansion (and surges in pressure from other sources, like water utility or momentum of water after slamming shut a large valve) but still push back and provide water pressure.
Back to the CTSC. As an interesting side note, an hour or more after a drive this past week I opened my SC's dip stick and heard air escape - so there was pressure contained by the Whipple & its snout there that didn't go anywhere. I can't find ANY signs of oil anywhere, except immediately around the dip sick cap. So, at least with the old whipple kit its not coming out the end of the snout as I recall one post indicating it would if there was no breather.
A couple days later I opened it again and heard air go in. :tongue: Maybe one means to avoid pressure is to always check the SC's oil level and seal back up when hot (air/oil is expanded). Then when it's all sealed up again there isn't much/any pressure at operating temp (and negative relative pressure when cool).
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