18/19 Tire choices!!!

[bonhamsurf]

Bonham, I'm afraid your improved performance is not actually there. You are really bent on this model of tire but the numbers and facts will bear out that the car is not better off. I'm a true believer in michelin, I looked at making these tires work but they just aren't right for this car. Happa is right. You have no fender liners. If you did, that front tire would be shredding it. You've increased rotational mass over stock significantly. Your TCS by your own admission is not working well. There are too many compromises made when an AD08 or the upcoming star spec Z2 in the right size will outperform what you have in every category. The michelins aren't cheap either. I think we are being nice saying "if you're happy" but we all know this is not a good move. LOL... Hey man I've been following you from the M3 forum and I'm glad you're here and think you have a great car. Don't take this personally. But you've basically stuck to your guns and made an incorrect move technically. It's not the end of the world... But you're going to have a hard time convincing most of the tire guys the car is better because it's on a tire you really like.

Thanks for the input The Yoko AD08 tires were my second choice, but was cautioned by a few people against their performance on a wet road. The guy who purchased my supercharger off of my m3 has them, and loves them, until the road gets wet, and then says they're very iffy when you have to stop fast, and that's in a car with a better ABS than my car. Last time I had to slam on the brakes coming down the Pali hwy with my Falken's on dry road, I slid so far there was visible brake smoke behind my car (was traveling about 40mph) so this increased my concerns with the Yokos, but I like them otherwise. I am aware that my current tire choice did nothing to speed up my car, and having just any 19" on the back is slower than an 18" setup. Just buying new rims is a little lower on my mod list.

 

[TURBO2GO]

Sinking some money into the car I see... LOL I'm not one to talk though...

 

[bonhamsurf]

Sinking some money into the car I see... LOL I'm not one to talk though...

LOL, most definitely . Had plans for it 7 years before I bought it.

 

[nsxtasy]

The Yoko AD08 tires were my second choice, but was cautioned by a few people against their performance on a wet road.

If I were concerned about performance on a wet road, the last thing I would be doing is turning off my TCS. Or getting tire sizes that required doing so.

 

[TURBO2GO]

The falkens are a bad wet tire, the AD08 is much better. Also, not all wet is the same. A wet road and a road with standing water are totally different. Most soft compound tires that perform well in the dry perform great if it's just wet. Where you run into issues is when there enough water to cause serious hydroplaning. Even then, extreme performance tires vary GREATLY depending on remaining tread depth. The same "poor tire" can be great with more tread depth.

So there isn't this good and bad wet tire and good and bad dry tire like people think. You really have to preface those qualities with explaining the factors. You have to consider how and where you drive. How often you change tires, what you're willing to compromise. My Star specs new, were stellar in the wet. On the track I was astounded at the grip. But I wasn't swimming either. It was just a wet track. In comparison a tire with wider and more grooves, but a harder compound would probably not only NOT be better but much worse. Compound rules first. Next is tread depth, and I would say third is tread design. People think the second the road is wet their extreme performance tire will go to zero and the lesser performance "rain" tire will be much better. It's just not true.

Give me AD08's on a wet track over a set of lesser performance "rain tires" any day.

Tire opinions are like axles, everybody has one. Take everything with a grain of salt. What I am basing my advice on (and same with ken and him even more so than me) is track experience wet and dry with a baseline for comparison. We also really read all the tire tests that happen in controlled conditions. These are worth a lot more than a buddy whose never been on a track that says he likes or doesn't like a tire and you don't even know what he based that on. Many times people are experiencing different tire pressures and different car alignments and they attribute all those differences in feel to the tire. Reduce or raise pressure 5 psi or go 2 degrees more toe and you have a different car. It's not the tire.

 

[TURBO2GO]

One other thing, and you'll only know this on the track, tire behavior at and beyond the limit matter a lot. One tire may have better overall wet grip but what does it do at the limit of grip? The difference can be between a controlled slide and hugging a tree. Same in the dry. My star specs may have had no more grip than my RT615 falkens. But at the limit they make noise, gave me better feedback, and let go slowly. The 615 sent me into several spins. I was faster and safer not because I had more grip but because I had more communication and more forgiveness.

IMO it's better to get smaller lighter higher performance tires than bigger heavier ones that are even one step down in compound. The thought that bigger gives more grip is a misconception. Even the contact patch doesn't change with bigger tires. You're exchanging shapes.

 

[NSX167]

HOLY Freakin CRAP MAN!!! How many times do we need to tell you this!?!?!? Get that SH!T out of your freakin head!!!!

215/35/18 ONLY!!!!

The reason your rims are exposed is 1) for the front you have Falkens which run narrow and 2) for the rear you're running a narrow 245/35/19 when you should be running a 275/30/19
Get the right tire sizes and
trust us on this.

+1. That's what I am running now.

215/35/18 front
275/30/19 rear

 

[bonhamsurf]

One other thing, and you'll only know this on the track, tire behavior at and beyond the limit matter a lot. One tire may have better overall wet grip but what does it do at the limit of grip? The difference can be between a controlled slide and hugging a tree. Same in the dry. My star specs may have had no more grip than my RT615 falkens. But at the limit they make noise, gave me better feedback, and let go slowly. The 615 sent me into several spins. I was faster and safer not because I had more grip but because I had more communication and more forgiveness.

IMO it's better to get smaller lighter higher performance tires than bigger heavier ones that are even one step down in compound. The thought that bigger gives more grip is a misconception. Even the contact patch doesn't change with bigger tires. You're exchanging shapes.

Oh, how I wish we still had a track here on Oahu. There's one on Big Island and one on Maui, but no longer on Oahu, and they shut down the Superferry, so now can't get to the track on other islands .

 

[nsxtasy]

Good posts above by TURBO2GO.

Just to add a couple of thoughts...

The falkens are a bad wet tire, the AD08 is much better.

One other extreme performance tire that's not very good in wet is the Kumho XS. It and the Falken RT-615K are fine in the dry and comparable to other extreme tires like the AD08, RE-11, and Star Spec, but are a step down in the wet.

Compound rules first. Next is tread depth, and I would say third is tread design.

Maybe in the dry, but not in the wet, where tread depth and tread design are much more important than compound.

 

[TURBO2GO]

Ken we have to define "wet". If we are talking a pool of water, enough to where there is standing or running water, I agree with you that tread design becomes more important. But if we are talking about wet as in the road or track is still wet from a rain, anything short of the tire needed to repel lots of water away from itself, then the compound matters more. If not going straight, certainly in a turn or on braking. Even on a wet road, the numbers favor the better compound tires in every test I have ever seen, even on DOT specs.

Of course these aren't hard rules but generalizations. You have design and you have design. You have compound and you have compound. If you move one to an extreme your results change.

 

[bonhamsurf]

"Wet" here normally is not standing water. Almost everything here is on some sort of hill, because this tiny, tiny island goes from the ocean, to 4025 elevation, and back to the ocean, all within a whopping 596 square miles.
So, wet here means rainwater running down the street, combined with a light spray of gravel/rocks and a steep incline, and braking sucks!
If you want to drive "fast" on Oahu, typically you have to out to H3, which provides a few miles of semi-decent road to play on. But only late at night. When I drive my car down H3 and it goes from bridge to road, or vise/versa, the bump is enough to cause my car to leave the ground for a moment (even at 70mph).
Here's a pic of H3

 

[bonhamsurf]

Give me AD08's on a wet track over a set of lesser performance "rain tires" any day.

What size AD08's would you put on an 18/19 setup. They don't have a 215/35/18 for the front.

 

[TURBO2GO]

Your springs may be too stiff. That sort of "bounce" is poor suspension performance and I know exactly what you're talking about. It's a bad damper and too stiff of a spring.

You live in a horrible terrible place... I feel bad for you. Jerk... :biggrin:

 

[TURBO2GO]

What size AD08's would you put on an 18/19 setup. They don't have a 215/35/18 for the front.

Yeah I was talking 17/18. The best setup for an NSX.

 

[bonhamsurf]

Your springs may be too stiff. That sort of "bounce" is poor suspension performance and I know exactly what you're talking about. It's a bad damper and too stiff of a spring.

You live in a horrible terrible place... I feel bad for you. Jerk... :biggrin:

LOL, yes the sacrifice of having crappy roads and no track in exchange for perpetual summer, blue oceans and tiny bikinis. Alas, it is a terrible, terrible life.

 

[angus]

I certainly hope that everyone who reads this will see this use of 225/40/18 tires in front as the exception to the rule and will see that it is not without problems, from the pics you can see that the front ride height is very high (look at the height of the front lip) if the car were lowered to the height seen on most other NSX's that are modded, the rubbing would be ridiculous to the point of destroying the front fenders (and the tires themselves) very quickly - aside from the issues already listed.

 

[surferX]

Stairway to Heaven! Looks like someone was trespassing

 

[bonhamsurf]

I certainly hope that everyone who reads this will see this use of 225/40/18 tires in front as the exception to the rule and will see that it is not without problems, from the pics you can see that the front ride height is very high (look at the height of the front lip) if the car were lowered to the height seen on most other NSX's that are modded, the rubbing would be ridiculous to the point of destroying the front fenders (and the tires themselves) very quickly - aside from the issues already listed.

I do agree that using them is against the norm and caution anyone else from using them, however, my experience so far has been positive. I have been enjoying them way more than the Falkens that were on before (correctly sized.)
Like I mentioned, the passenger tire only rubs when I turn the wheel full lock as hard as I can. The TCS issue hasn't bothered me, I drove with my DCS off 100% of the time in my M3, purely by choice.
As far as aesthetics go, my previous tires had much more space between them and the body of the car. The front was already higher than the rear from the previous owner. I have attached a photo from the before I put on the Michelin's.
The car is lower all around than a Stock NSX, and I have to be careful going in and out of 90% of the driveways and parking lots or I'll scrape the front, so the small amount the new tires did lift the car has made this easier.
Also, my car did not have fender liners on it when I purchased it, and the previous owner does not have them.
Again, I agree it's not normal, but neither has it been negative nor has it caused any damage to my car.

 

[Hapa88]

I certainly hope that everyone who reads this will see this use of 225/40/18 tires in front as the exception to the rule and will see that it is not without problems, from the pics you can see that the front ride height is very high (look at the height of the front lip) if the car were lowered to the height seen on most other NSX's that are modded, the rubbing would be ridiculous to the point of destroying the front fenders (and the tires themselves) very quickly - aside from the issues already listed.

I think I captured that in post #120. But here is again in case people missed it. :smile:

So sad to see you go this route after we all told you so many times not to.

Anyway, the reasons why I preferred you stayed with the 215/35/18 are:
1) It doesn't cause TCS issues.
2) It doesn't rub.
3) It doesn't have a larger sidewall than the rear, making it look unbalanced.
4) It doesn't fill up the wheel well more than the rear making it look unbalanced.
5) It doesn't change the rake of the car such that now the nose of the car angles upward (when the OEM look has a nose downward rake).
6) 215/35/18s are generally (but not always) cheaper than the 225/40/18s.
7) It stretches the tire little more (makes it less "square"), matching the stretch of your rear.

Everyone, keep in mind that he doesn't have any front fenderliners. Otherwise it would rub like crazy.

Anyway, all that matters is that you're happy... Congrats on your purchase.

 

[bonhamsurf]

What's the suggested wheel size and offset if I choose to buy a set of 17/18" rims?

 

[nsxtasy]

What's the suggested wheel size and offset if I choose to buy a set of 17/18" rims?

You should first choose your wheel diameter (which you've done), then your tire size, then your wheel width, then your offset.

You'll want 215/40-17 front tires. They can usually be mounted on wheels 7.0-8.5 inches wide but I would avoid the 17x8.5, stick with 17x7, 17x7.5, or 17x8.

If your NSX is a '91-93, you'll want 265/35-18 rear tires. They can usually be mounted on wheels 9.0-10.5 inches wide, but I would stick with 18x9.5 or 18x10.

If your NSX is a '94-05, you'll want 255/35-18 rear tires. They can usually be mounted on wheels 8.5-10.0 inches wide but I would avoid the 18x8.5.

I don't know about which offset is best, other than that it depends on which wheel width you're getting.

 

[Hapa88]

You should first choose your wheel diameter (which you've done), then your tire size, then your wheel width, then your offset.

You'll want 215/40-17 front tires. They can usually be mounted on wheels 7.0-8.5 inches wide but I would avoid the 17x8.5, stick with 17x7, 17x7.5, or 17x8.

If your NSX is a '91-93, you'll want 265/35-18 rear tires. They can usually be mounted on wheels 9.0-10.5 inches wide, but I would stick with 18x9.5 or 18x10.

If your NSX is a '94-05, you'll want 255/35-18 rear tires. They can usually be mounted on wheels 8.5-10.0 inches wide but I would avoid the 18x8.5.

I don't know about which offset is best, other than that it depends on which wheel width you're getting.

Hey look, Michelin Pilot Super Sports aren't available in 215/40/17 but they are availabe in 225/45/17s!!! :tongue:

 

[bonhamsurf]

You should first choose your wheel diameter (which you've done), then your tire size, then your wheel width, then your offset.

You'll want 215/40-17 front tires. They can usually be mounted on wheels 7.0-8.5 inches wide but I would avoid the 17x8.5, stick with 17x7, 17x7.5, or 17x8.

If your NSX is a '91-93, you'll want 265/35-18 rear tires. They can usually be mounted on wheels 9.0-10.5 inches wide, but I would stick with 18x9.5 or 18x10.

If your NSX is a '94-05, you'll want 255/35-18 rear tires. They can usually be mounted on wheels 8.5-10.0 inches wide but I would avoid the 18x8.5.

I don't know about which offset is best, other than that it depends on which wheel width you're getting.

I would do 17x8 and 18x10 on my 1991. Oh, if I did this, I would go for the AD08 tires.

 

[bonhamsurf]

Actually, as I measure my wheels, I realize, I can't do a 17" up front. I have the Project MU 6 piston aluminum BBK on my fronts. As far as I can tell, a 17" won't fit around those. Correct?

 

[DASHNBY]

Actually, as I measure my wheels, I realize, I can't do a 17" up front. I have the Project MU 6 piston aluminum BBK on my fronts. As far as I can tell, a 17" won't fit around those. Correct?

FYI, a member here in so cal runs 17/18 Advan RS' with that same Project Mu Caliper.