2-way? 4-way? Amp

[Teej]

What kind of amplifier do you think I'll need?

I'll be running the Earthquake slim off a Zetoolman box, a component in each door, and I think I'll put a 6x9" (or something) in between the seats where the OEM phone speaker is.

I know nothing about this stuff

 

[clr1024]

I wouldn't do the 6 x 9, you don't really need it in the NSX as the cabin is so small. In other cars, I like the rear fill, but in this case it's right next to you. In addition it will complicate your install. If you want components in the door and a sub, I would get a 4-channel amp that is bridgeable on at least two channels. Most 4 channels these days have all channels bridgeable. Use two channels to run the components in the door and then the bridged channel to run the sub.

Just my $.02...also what I have done. It works well and keeps you with one amp vs multiple, which simplifies installation. If you have an after market receiver that has separate controls for the sub, run one RCA for the components and another for the sub, so you have full control at the head unit for any adjustment on the sub.

 

[Teej]

I wouldn't do the 6 x 9, you don't really need it in the NSX as the cabin is so small. In other cars, I like the rear fill, but in this case it's right next to you. In addition it will complicate your install. If you want components in the door and a sub, I would get a 4-channel amp that is bridgeable on at least two channels. Most 4 channels these days have all channels bridgeable. Use two channels to run the components in the door and then the bridged channel to run the sub.

Just my $.02...also what I have done. It works well and keeps you with one amp vs multiple, which simplifies installation. If you have an after market receiver that has separate controls for the sub, run one RCA for the components and another for the sub, so you have full control at the head unit for any adjustment on the sub.

Great advice...especially on the center speaker...just wanted a more surround feel...even if its a smaller 4", but the last thing I want to do is complicate things further. That being said I guess I forgot to mention that it already has a Kenwood DDX512 double DIN. I dont know what brand the door components are that were already installed. There were no logos on the speaker when I took the door panel off last weekend and I did not remove the speaker to take a look. And while I am usually quick to yank what I dont know and replace with what I do know, I want to be sure the door components are really the problem. Right now it just sounds like the head unit installed just has no built in power unlike most Alpine units I have had in the past in other vehicles.

 

[clr1024]

Great advice...especially on the center speaker...just wanted a more surround feel...even if its a smaller 4", but the last thing I want to do is complicate things further. That being said I guess I forgot to mention that it already has a Kenwood DDX512 double DIN. I dont know what brand the door components are that were already installed. There were no logos on the speaker when I took the door panel off last weekend and I did not remove the speaker to take a look. And while I am usually quick to yank what I dont know and replace with what I do know, I want to be sure the door components are really the problem. Right now it just sounds like the head unit installed just has no built in power unlike most Alpine units I have had in the past in other vehicles.

Does it sound flat? It is highly unlikely that you will be able to power compnent speakers off your head unit and have them sound good, you really need an amplifier in there or they are just underpowered. You could take a picture, or pull one of the speakers and look at the back of it if you have the door panels off, should be easy.

 

[Teej]

Also is it just unavoidable to have the speaker wires visible through the door once you open it up with an aftermarket set up? I get to see thick blue speaker wire every time I open either door.

I did not see a place to run the wire through like with most vehicles.

 

[clr1024]

Also is it just unavoidable to have the speaker wires visible through the door once you open it up with an aftermarket set up? I get to see thick blue speaker wire every time I open either door.

I did not see a place to run the wire through like with most vehicles.

It is possible I believe, I didn't have to run these wires as they were there when I bought the car. You may have to do a search on prime to see who has done it, I think turbo2go is working on this right now, so you may want to see how he ran his wires.

http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php?t=163524

 

[TURBO2GO]

I'll help you but I need more info from you Teej. Can you post some photos please? I need:

Photos of door wire

Photos of speakers, Woofer, tweeter, and crossover, and see how the woofers and wptweeter are mounted.

The amp if there is one

The rear center can be great actually with the right driver, right processing.

The tweeter's best mounting location are not in the door at all. So you don't need to run a wire in there. You can use the factory wire for the woofer. The tweeter can sit in the car not on the door and easily be fed. That means your Xover has to come in too. Which is better long terms for its life anyway.

I actually recommend a 6 channel amp. Something like the JL XD600/6.

The NSX needs a lot of amp power. You must get class D and as much amp as you can fit/afford.

 

[clr1024]

Sure, Dave trump all of my advice:tongue: I was going to suggest a five or six channel amp if he really wants the rear speaker, but I have never missed the rear fill, that said as you said maybe it does add with the right processing, but I have a stock head unit, for now...

Anyway Teej, Dave has, I am sure infinite more amount of knowledge on tuning for car audio than I do. I have just done my own basic to average installs.

 

[Teej]

Dave has a blowout setup that only an audiophile could comprehend. =)

Dave, the car already has the tweeters mounted on the doors. I'll take it apart next week when I get back from the weekend trip and snap photos. Zetoolman is working on a floor housing for the Earthquake slim I just ordered for the passenger floor.

What I don't need is a $300-$500 amp, just something that will make it sound decent because right now, there is no amp and the head unit/receiver kicks out zero juice. Its either that or the 6" door speakers are complete garbage (could be 5 1/4" I didn't measure).

Thanks both of you for your help and I will keep this post alive with photos. What I am trying to avoid is going to the local rip off shop and paying them to do anything other than MAYBE tune the system. The current unit has all these settings that I don't know wtf to do with.

 

[TURBO2GO]

It's probably not that the 6.5" is garbage. In an NSX the factory enclosures are removed, a door plate is slapped on an uneven door surface, and the woofer is expected to perform with a 2" opening directly to its side. So what happens is the front wave and the back wave of the woofer meet, the bass cancels, and you get a 6.5" woofer playing upper midrange. Something a 2" dome can do. This is standard NSX installation. Then of course the sub is necessary, and if you were to measure you'd see this huge gap between say 80Hz and 300Hz, with the system producing virtually nothing there.

Now power that up by a 10 watt head unit (trust me it is no more than that clean) and of course you will get shitty sound. So the "upgrade" is then no more than a cool looking head unit in the dash.

So look, if it was me, I would yank those door speakers out. An NSX should not be using a 6.5". I have a 4" right now and it puts out 3x the bass of a high end high powered 6.5".

The NSX is loud. You need amp power, especialy wit a targa. You say you don't want to spend $300, but you need a 4 channel amp to drive all these speakers and the sub. The NSX cabin has little room and the electrical system is not the most robust for this kind of thing (small battery, small alternator). Cheap gets you a class AB amp at 40% efficiency. You get a big heavy amp that turns all the juice it sucks out of the car into heat.

You need a class D amp. That's 80%. Less size, less heat, less weight. But not less money.

So here is one I recommend:

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_40254_NVX-JAD800.4.html

small, light, with adequate power.

 

[Teej]

I'm not married to the current speakers AT ALL.... lead the way Dave... lead the way. Since the previous owner had the tweeters installed in the door, I feel I am somewhat stuck with that type of set up. So my 4" door speakers will still need to have the component tweeters. Its either that or I leave the tweeters as dead dummies and install some 4"s that have the tweeter in the middle.

 

[TURBO2GO]

I'm not married to the current speakers AT ALL.... lead the way Dave... lead the way. Since the previous owner had the tweeters installed in the door, I feel I am somewhat stuck with that type of set up. So my 4" door speakers will still need to have the component tweeters. Its either that or I leave the tweeters as dead dummies and install some 4"s that have the tweeter in the middle.

Well lets figure out what you have first. They also may not be healthy. They could be damaged. Take a pic. I don't want to just say replace them if it's truly a good high end speaker. I am also curious about the exact door location. Show me what you have and we can update it properly. Hold off on buying anything right now.

 

[jorligan]

Teej,
Are you married to your tool kit in the trunk? This is a good location for the amp and then you run wiring to the front of the car. I you want, come on out next weekend and I can help you get it squared away. I have a spare Xtant x604 amp (For Sale), 4 channel amp, which we can use to get everything setup and then you can decide whether you have enough power. I currently have an Xtant x603 which is the same amp in a 3 channel configuration. I was using the 4 channel amp in the past and never had issues with enough volume since the car is relatively small.
Tim

 

[jaffaz32]

Also my understanding of how a 6x9 works is that you get the loudest from the smaller dimension for example the width (6) so you might as well for a set of 6" round components.

You tend to get a better sound from a speaker which doesn't have a tweeter coming up though the middle of it.

 

[TURBO2GO]

How much power he needs depends on the speakers he has. How many channels depends on how the system is setup. There are advantages to having independent amp channels for the tweeters and woofers via an active crossover and ditching the passive that came with that speaker (nevermind any other speakers).

What I talk about may sound intimidating and complex, but it's based on fact and sound acoustical engineering. It is actually cheaper. A good active Xover is $40. The values and levels whee things need to be set at is the hard part, the "tuning" is the hard part, and I have done all that hard work and will hand you the numbers and values.

Like I said before.... Don't do anything until we've at least made a solid plan. A plan doesn't cost you anything but can mean all the difference in the world in your sound quality.

 

[hofffam]

Also my understanding of how a 6x9 works is that you get the loudest from the smaller dimension for example the width (6) so you might as well for a set of 6" round components.

You tend to get a better sound from a speaker which doesn't have a tweeter coming up though the middle of it.

The 6 inch dimension versus the 9 inch has no bearing on the sound produced. The cone area, all things being equal, has a direct bearing on the volume and bass a speaker can produce. 6x9 speakers however generally suck. Mostly because they get installed in Trans Ams and trucks.

 

[hofffam]

How much power he needs depends on the speakers he has. How many channels depends on how the system is setup. There are advantages to having independent amp channels for the tweeters and woofers via an active crossover and ditching the passive that came with that speaker (nevermind any other speakers).

What I talk about may sound intimidating and complex, but it's based on fact and sound acoustical engineering. It is actually cheaper. A good active Xover is $40. The values and levels whee things need to be set at is the hard part, the "tuning" is the hard part, and I have done all that hard work and will hand you the numbers and values.

Like I said before.... Don't do anything until we've at least made a solid plan. A plan doesn't cost you anything but can mean all the difference in the world in your sound quality.

I am a big fan of active crossover car audio. But I don't think there are any good active crossovers for $40.

 

[TURBO2GO]

I am a big fan of active crossover car audio. But I don't think there are any good active crossovers for $40.

There are... At wholesale. So it's like an $80 retail. They outperform the passive ones I have seen. The thing you have to remember that 80% of the fight here is going against the issues in an nsx, not whether frequency response is ruler flat or not. I am not going active to get that extra bit of top end audio, I am doing it because it is a necessary tool to put together an assembly of drivers and amplifiers in the right locations to make an NSX sound good.

I'll say this... I think you need power and lots of it, at least with the drivers I am using and with a targa car FOR SURE. Other than that, paying extra for XYZ brand of either speakers or amps is a total waste of money. But this isn't that different than home audio where audiophiles buy $5000 speaker wire and listen in a room that has worse acoustics than a military bunker.

No matter how much you spend on gear, if it is ill placed, ill-installed, it will not do its job.

 

[TURBO2GO]

Also my understanding of how a 6x9 works is that you get the loudest from the smaller dimension for example the width (6) so you might as well for a set of 6" round components.

You tend to get a better sound from a speaker which doesn't have a tweeter coming up though the middle of it.

"Speaker that doesn't have a tweeter coming up through the middle of it"... Lol... Well that's one way of describing a coaxial speaker. :tongue: I like it. And yeah there is some overall validity to what you are saying.

A 6X9 driver is used for bass. So I don't know what you mean by "you get the loudest from the smaller dimension". If you are saying a 6x9 has the same overall output as the same speaker in a 6" round, that is inaccurate. You have more cone and surface area and it has more output at certain frequencies, and a different dispersion pattern.

Matters not, because neither a 6x9 nor a 6" belong in an NSX without major body/panel work.