A New Hope?

[goldNSX]

As far as I've read today in the newspaper the new CEO will follow up with the hybrid technology, a 'sportscar' CR-Z is mentioned also. No NSX. And they will lean out the number of models from 13 to ?

BTW Toyota is thinking about closing a US factory they ran with GM before. It was the first factory of Toyota in the US.

 

[NSXrebel]

As far as I've read today in the newspaper the new CEO will follow up with the hybrid technology, a 'sportscar' CR-Z is mentioned also. No NSX. And they will lean out the number of models from 13 to ?

BTW Toyota is thinking about closing a US factory they ran with GM before. It was the first factory of Toyota in the US.

I got an email from American Honda that the CR-Z was confirmed to go into production and be on sale for 2010. It is essentially a new CRX, with a 2.0L/IMA Hybrid. I actually like it.

 

[goldNSX]

I've seen it once in a paper. Interesting thing. Looks like a VW Scirocco if you know the model in the US too. This 'CRX' will be the only sportscar then I fear.

 

[oscar_driver]

is that FWD?

 

[NSXrebel]

is that FWD?

mid-engined, rwd.






















I kid. :tongue:
Yes, FWD.

 

[oscar_driver]

mid-engined, rwd.






















I kid. :tongue:
Yes, FWD.

hahhaa you've got me for a second ... i was ... WHAT?? :biggrin:

 

[H-carWizKid]

I got an email from American Honda that the CR-Z was confirmed to go into production and be on sale for 2010. It is essentially a new CRX, with a 2.0L/IMA Hybrid. I actually like it.

Hell yeah. I'd drive one of those.

P

 

[goldNSX]

I'd drive one of those.

+1. But I fear that it will be a boyracer car. This would be a reason not to drive one.

 

[WingZ]

Hmm so we went from CRX to Del Sol to S2K and now back to CR-Z:frown:

 

[WingZ]

My bad it just got worse ..sigh
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/07/15/rumormill-front-wheel-drive-hybrid-honda-s2000-replacement-com/

Ok it's assassination time kiddies who's got the skills and how do we find out who is making these product decisions.:biggrin:

 

[NSXrebel]

Hmm so we went from CRX to Del Sol to S2K and now back to CR-Z:frown:

Don't forget, Del Sol is a CRX.


WingZ, so what if some kids rice out the CRZ, would that stop you from driving a CRZ Si/SiR/TypeR? Just keep it clean, don't rice it out, and enjoy it. :wink:

 

[NSXrebel]

My bad it just got worse ..sigh
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/07/15/rumormill-front-wheel-drive-hybrid-honda-s2000-replacement-com/

Ok it's assassination time kiddies who's got the skills and how do we find out who is making these product decisions.:biggrin:

I'm no sniper, but I am a Marine expert shooter, which means I can hit a target upwards of 500 yards with just iron sights. Add a scope, and now we're talking. :wink:

Seriously, Honda just keeps getting worse by the minute. First they try to replace the NSX with a FUGLY FR V10 car, now they want to replace the S2K with a FF car?

I've always said we needed a new CRX, and it looks like we're finally gonna get it, but the rest of the sporty line of cars... :frown:

 

[WingZ]

Don't forget, Del Sol is a CRX.


WingZ, so what if some kids rice out the CRZ, would that stop you from driving a CRZ Si/SiR/TypeR? Just keep it clean, don't rice it out, and enjoy it. :wink:

LOL

I'm no sniper, but I am a Marine expert shooter, which means I can hit a target upwards of 500 yards with just iron sights. Add a scope, and now we're talking. :wink:

Seriously, Honda just keeps getting worse by the minute. First they try to replace the NSX with a FUGLY FR V10 car, now they want to replace the S2K with a FF car?

I've always said we needed a new CRX, and it looks like we're finally gonna get it, but the rest of the sporty line of cars... :frown:

Alright let's get this man a ticket and a scope.

Just don't do the guy that's in charge of the Fugly V10 as I still want that:tongue: LOL

Oh just for those of you who didn't know that bad news comes in 3's
http://www.s2ki.com/home/2009/07/13/honda-will-not-return-to-formula-one

Damn that's one vulcan looking muthaf*cka!

 

[Right_D]

Just wanted to throw my $.02 in: Maybe this has been addressed in the forums before, but when I was watching the Indy race this weekend it occured to me that Honda is the spec engine manufacturer for Indy, and the engines are completely bullet-proof (I don't think they've ever had one fail in a race, practice or test session), yet Honda has NO performance production cars. ????? That is ridiculous! Surely there is room in the market for a single performance offering from Honda.

Forget about the complete JUNK that was to be the new NSX (large displacment, front engine, rear drive - I think the Viper, GTR and Corvette already have that covered, but thanks anyway, Honda). They need to de-tune their Indy engine and drop it into a mid-engine platform. That is what the new NSX needs. Updated styling, upgraded electronics, Indy engine.

It seems so obvious. They are already tooled up on the engines, and the fact that they would be using a spec race engine is a huge selling point for the market that would be interested in a car like the NSX.

Do you think Honda has a postion for Director of New Product Development open?

 

[Honcho]

I know we've worn this into the ground but the car that still makes the most sense and would've been ahead of it's time in these cutting back on engine size trend is the HSC but that's just plain old dated now. Formula works but it would need some serious development update. The use of one of the J series would keep the cost down and give Acura a Cayman/911/R8 fighter. I have to say Acura is a big part of the problem though. Unpatriotic as it sounds they need to go back to designing things in Japan and following the board there. Apparently Acura has been calling the shots for years and we see where that's getting us.

I think you and I should start the "Make the J35/37 HSC into the new NSX" club. :biggrin: We've already gone over it in excruciating detail in other threads, but it just makes sense. J-series is already a green engine (ULEV I think). HSC is just the NSX with all of the tweaks it should of received in 1997 or 2002. Put them together at $60k base and you've got a winner. This is not a hard decision Honda!

I have to agree with you on Acura as well. The American design team has butchered the lineup. The new models look bloated, heavy and slow, with cheezy chrome accents and bulges that have no function. Although, I guess maybe its a good thing if your intended customers buy Camrys and Chevy Malibus. That seems to be where Honda is headed...

 

[WingZ]

Do you think Honda has a postion for Director of New Product Development open?

They will NSXrebel gets back from his ..uh v-a-c-a-t-i-o-n:wink:

I think you and I should start the "Make the J35/37 HSC into the new NSX" club. :biggrin: We've already gone over it in excruciating detail in other threads, but it just makes sense. J-series is already a green engine (ULEV I think). HSC is just the NSX with all of the tweaks it should of received in 1997 or 2002. Put them together at $60k base and you've got a winner. This is not a hard decision Honda!

I have to agree with you on Acura as well. The American design team has butchered the lineup. The new models look bloated, heavy and slow, with cheezy chrome accents and bulges that have no function. Although, I guess maybe its a good thing if your intended customers buy Camrys and Chevy Malibus. That seems to be where Honda is headed...

Well a have a note left at the sites where NSXrebel tours on his v-a-c-a-t-i-o-n with demands/suggestions:biggrin:

 

[ediddynsx]

I think you and I should start the "Make the J35/37 HSC into the new NSX" club. :biggrin: We've already gone over it in excruciating detail in other threads, but it just makes sense. J-series is already a green engine (ULEV I think). HSC is just the NSX with all of the tweaks it should of received in 1997 or 2002. Put them together at $60k base and you've got a winner. This is not a hard decision Honda!

I have to agree with you on Acura as well. The American design team has butchered the lineup. The new models look bloated, heavy and slow, with cheezy chrome accents and bulges that have no function. Although, I guess maybe its a good thing if your intended customers buy Camrys and Chevy Malibus. That seems to be where Honda is headed...

You want them to make a supercar for 60k? An M3 goes for that much......you can't expect a company to make a supercar for 60k and compete with Ferrari 200K+ and Lambo 200-400k+ and lose money. They already did that with the last NSX.

I think toyota is right for charging 250k for that car....all the R and D and materials they use to build that car......see if Ferrari will charge 60k for one of their cars......good luck.

That LF-A is worth way more than the 250k they are asking.

People need to stop being brand snobs and give respect when its due.

The Japanese can build super exotic cars too.....same sh!t just different name.

 

[WingZ]

You want them to make a supercar for 60k? An M3 goes for that much......you can't expect a company to make a supercar for 60k and compete with Ferrari 200K+ and Lambo 200-400k+ and lose money. They already did that with the last NSX.

No we just want them to make another sports car. Surely they could beat the M3 for $60k and in so doing that would put it above the 911/CaymanS/R8. If it just met the performance of the current Z06 and was mid engine with Honda fuel economy and reliability that would be great.

Of course that's the enigma of the NSX in that people want it to outperform everything and cost next to nothing ..LOL

I think toyota is right for charging 250k for that car....all the R and D and materials they use to build that car......see if Ferrari will charge 60k for one of their cars......good luck.

That LF-A is worth way more than the 250k they are asking.

People need to stop being brand snobs and give respect when its due.

The Japanese can build super exotic cars too.....same sh!t just different name.

Agreed but the blue chip crowd usually need "breeding" as a chest puffer of sorts. Real enthusiasts don't care.

 

[Honcho]

You want them to make a supercar for 60k? An M3 goes for that much......you can't expect a company to make a supercar for 60k and compete with Ferrari 200K+ and Lambo 200-400k+ and lose money. They already did that with the last NSX.

I think toyota is right for charging 250k for that car....all the R and D and materials they use to build that car......see if Ferrari will charge 60k for one of their cars......good luck.

That LF-A is worth way more than the 250k they are asking.

People need to stop being brand snobs and give respect when its due.

The Japanese can build super exotic cars too.....same sh!t just different name.

+ 1 to what WingZ said. The idea would be similar to how Porsche markets its 911. The base model is reasonably priced (for a Porsche lol) and delivers good performance. The NSX equivalent would be a J37 HSC platform with about 300whp for $60k. With Porsche, more money means more performance. Carerra S and Turbo give you more, but cost more. Honda can do a Type S with a similar balance- 320 whp with weight loss and $75k. For balls out "supercar", Porsche has their 911 GT2. Honda can do NSX Type R with either a turbo (sourced from the RDX program) J35 or a NA V8 (derived from the ASCC V10) @ 450whp and $90k to $110k.

By using trim levels to differentiate your market, you can capture all of the sports car segment. Porsche has been doing it for decades and has made a lot of money. I believe that the fundamental NSX chassis design (as adopted in the HSC) is sound and still competitive as a sports car and, with enough power, supercar. All we need is a powerplant update. By having a $60k base model, you will ensure a steady stream of purchases that keep the brand alive and fund the higher trim levels, which avoids the stagnation the NSX suffered in the 90's.

For "excruciating detail", see post # 10 here: http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=121644 and post # 6 here: http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119331

 

[WingZ]

+ 1 to what WingZ said. The idea would be similar to how Porsche markets its 911. The base model is reasonably priced (for a Porsche lol) and delivers good performance. The NSX equivalent would be a J37 HSC platform with about 300whp for $60k. With Porsche, more money means more performance. Carerra S and Turbo give you more, but cost more. Honda can do a Type S with a similar balance- 320 whp with weight loss and $75k. For balls out "supercar", Porsche has their 911 GT2. Honda can do NSX Type R with either a turbo (sourced from the RDX program) J35 or a NA V8 (derived from the ASCC V10) @ 450whp and $90k to $110k.

By using trim levels to differentiate your market, you can capture all of the sports car segment. Porsche has been doing it for decades and has made a lot of money. I believe that the fundamental NSX chassis design (as adopted in the HSC) is sound and still competitive as a sports car and, with enough power, supercar. All we need is a powerplant update. By having a $60k base model, you will ensure a steady stream of purchases that keep the brand alive and fund the higher trim levels, which avoids the stagnation the NSX suffered in the 90's.

For "excruciating detail", see post # 10 here: http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=121644 and post # 6 here: http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119331

Damn why can't we have you working at Honda??? This would be perfect for Acura and they could still do the V10 but at least their would be a something instead of a huge jump from the new ZDX to a $100k+ car.

Porsche and Vette Japanese alternative to market has yet to be really explored.

 

[ediddynsx]

+ 1 to what WingZ said. The idea would be similar to how Porsche markets its 911. The base model is reasonably priced (for a Porsche lol) and delivers good performance. The NSX equivalent would be a J37 HSC platform with about 300whp for $60k. With Porsche, more money means more performance. Carerra S and Turbo give you more, but cost more. Honda can do a Type S with a similar balance- 320 whp with weight loss and $75k. For balls out "supercar", Porsche has their 911 GT2. Honda can do NSX Type R with either a turbo (sourced from the RDX program) J35 or a NA V8 (derived from the ASCC V10) @ 450whp and $90k to $110k.

By using trim levels to differentiate your market, you can capture all of the sports car segment. Porsche has been doing it for decades and has made a lot of money. I believe that the fundamental NSX chassis design (as adopted in the HSC) is sound and still competitive as a sports car and, with enough power, supercar. All we need is a powerplant update. By having a $60k base model, you will ensure a steady stream of purchases that keep the brand alive and fund the higher trim levels, which avoids the stagnation the NSX suffered in the 90's.

For "excruciating detail", see post # 10 here: http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=121644 and post # 6 here: http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119331

Honcho,


I agree with you and wingz if you are talking different levels of the car then yes.....I was speaking for a super halo car point of view. Everyone wants a super halo car for nothing. If you are talking type-s then type-r and type-rr then that makes sense. Just tired of all the people wanting something for nothing.....especially a super exotic car. Now I nominate both you and Wingz to work at Honda....hehe

 

[WingZ]

Honcho,


I agree with you and wingz if you are talking different levels of the car then yes.....I was speaking for a super halo car point of view. Everyone wants a super halo car for nothing. If you are talking type-s then type-r and type-rr then that makes sense. Just tired of all the people wanting something for nothing.....especially a super exotic car. Now I nominate both you and Wingz to work at Honda....hehe

Correction everyone wants a Super halo car from "Honda" for nothing as apparently if it's a Honda it's only worth so much. Doesn't matter if it gives same or better performance than Ferrari or Porsche with better mpg , less maintenance better build quality it's a "Honda"

 

[gdae]

20 years ago Honda designed the NSX to prove that they could “do it.” It was a way of coming out, catching eyes, gaining respect. Honda has already stuck that feather into their cap and moved on ….
But it occurs to me that other ascendant car companies are getting close to the position that Honda was in back then. Eventually they’ll want to stun the world with a halo car offering. Following this line of logic, we should take our case to Hyundai or Kia or even Tata (in about 20 more years).
Any of us would take the hot gen 2 NSX-like exotic even if it was made by Hyundai, right? After all, there has been a lot of talk on here about not having our noses up about which marque makes the car ….

 

[ivanj]

Zdx

Damn why can't we have you working at Honda??? This would be perfect for Acura and they could still do the V10 but at least their would be a something instead of a huge jump from the new ZDX to a $100k+ car.

Porsche and Vette Japanese alternative to market has yet to be really explored.

I just got the Summer 2009 Acura magazine and I see this ZDX. It reminds me of an RX8 - a 4 door coupe, almost a contradiction in terms -but I like the idea of all wheel drive. I hate to be a bore, but is there any other info sources since I am lazy. Is this slated to be the NSX replacement or some other option/slot in the lineup? How do they design these things? Focus groups from people who need to every possible silly thing - 4 doors?

NB- I just read the edmunds report and they claim it is a high performance version of an SUV. So I guess I will stick with my NSX for the road and my MB 2002 g500 when I meet clients and when I go offroad to fish, hunting, and kayack. Of course, I wish Acura luck in selling the cars and I hope it kicks the posuer BMWs in the keyster.

Anybody can buy a BMW, all you need is money, not brains.

Thanks,
Ivanj

 

[WingZ]

Re: Zdx

I just got the Summer 2009 Acura magazine and I see this ZDX. It reminds me of an RX8 - a 4 door coupe, almost a contradiction in terms -but I like the idea of all wheel drive. I hate to be a bore, but is there any other info sources since I am lazy. Is this slated to be the NSX replacement or some other option/slot in the lineup? How do they design these things? Focus groups from people who need to every possible silly thing - 4 doors?

NB- I just read the edmunds report and they claim it is a high performance version of an SUV. So I guess I will stick with my NSX for the road and my MB 2002 g500 when I meet clients and when I go offroad to fish, hunting, and kayack. Of course, I wish Acura luck in selling the cars and I hope it kicks the posuer BMWs in the keyster.

Anybody can buy a BMW, all you need is money, not brains.

Thanks,
Ivanj

LOL We've no idea Ivan. I do end up liking their designs after awhile and it seems they look better in person than they do in pics. I just wish they'd stop with the American designs. Although I do like the RL/TL/TSX they really do seem to be becoming heavy Buicks.

I honestly can't tell what Acura is going for ( doesn't seem like anyone else can either ) but they do offer price wise good competition to baser models of the Euro's. The V10 would've been something else in either the ASC or new RL of course now we'll never know:frown: