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Best hand application products to remove swirls and imperfections on black?
- Thread starter Hondatuner20
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"Paint Correction" wording no! Utter those words at a body shop or detailer and half or more of your clear coat say bye bye! Do it yourself. Mantra is - remove as little clear coat as possible as you will need every bit of it for the endless polishing. TAKE YOUR TIME and think it out/read join the websites ref'd above. Watch the excellent material at autogeek. Had my black since 93. If you want to labor of love spruce it a bit when you get it, the Zymol HD cleanse mentioned will not hurt it at all. It likely will not get you where you want to be, but will need to learn to asess the surface and will teach you that and then you can decide whether to find a local who uses DA's or get into machines yourself. I've just purchased a Flex3401 which is a somewhat powerfull DA although it can be turned down to gentle. I'm just now picking polishes to try. Since you haven't bought, i've got to tell you i'm pretty experienced at this for a non pro, and the black takes SO much work you may find yourself driving a whole lot less. And you just plain can't see a black X at night. You will love your NSX though no matter the color!
If your car has never had paint correction and you are wondering if you need it, you probably do. Most of these cars are over 10 years old. Even if you only washed your car once a month that would be 120 washes. Unless you washed it perfectly with a 2 bucket method every time it is enevitable that you will get micro scratches in the paint. Take a look at your car under harsh flourecent lights or the lights at a gas station at night. Sometimes you can't see them in the daylight but those fine lines and imperfections that you see under those lights take shine away from your paint. After a full paint correction they will be gone. Even new cars should go through paint correction to bring out the best in the paint. It takes a lot of time and if you don't do it yourself a lot of money, but it is so worth it. I just put my Red 2002 through a full paint correction and the results are amazing. The paint looked good before but after it almost looked like a different color. I'm lucky and live right down the road from one of the top detailers in the US. Todd Cooperrider does amazing work if you are in the Columbus Oh area look him up. http://esotericdetail.com/
You can expect to pay between $1000-$1500 for Todd to do a correction that will get your car to 95% or better. Even Todd will tell you that you will never get to 100%. If you don't have the funds to pay a professional he writes alot of articles for detailed Image http://www.detailedimage.com/
Read his stuff, get yourself a fender and hood out of a junk yard and pratice before you do your own car. I've learned from him and another friend that is into paint correction. It really isn't that hard to do, just take your time becuase if you do it wrong you can definetly make it worse. If your going to do it yourself plan on over 30 hours. Here is process that my friends and I are using when Todd isn't doing it.
1) wash
2) clay bar
Porter Cable 7424XP random orbital buffer
3) polish Meguiar's M105 (you may need 2-3 times)
4) finish polish Meguiar's M205
5) Glaze (chemical Guys EZ-creme glaze)
6) Balckfire wet diamond sealant (2-3 coats)
Like I said before it take a lot of time but you will be amazed by the results!
Good luck
You can expect to pay between $1000-$1500 for Todd to do a correction that will get your car to 95% or better. Even Todd will tell you that you will never get to 100%. If you don't have the funds to pay a professional he writes alot of articles for detailed Image http://www.detailedimage.com/
Read his stuff, get yourself a fender and hood out of a junk yard and pratice before you do your own car. I've learned from him and another friend that is into paint correction. It really isn't that hard to do, just take your time becuase if you do it wrong you can definetly make it worse. If your going to do it yourself plan on over 30 hours. Here is process that my friends and I are using when Todd isn't doing it.
1) wash
2) clay bar
Porter Cable 7424XP random orbital buffer
3) polish Meguiar's M105 (you may need 2-3 times)
4) finish polish Meguiar's M205
5) Glaze (chemical Guys EZ-creme glaze)
6) Balckfire wet diamond sealant (2-3 coats)
Like I said before it take a lot of time but you will be amazed by the results!
Good luck
OGB, i live in Columbus and just called Esoteric about class they. I thought if they were cheap, wth, but they won't teach to those in the area. Although i'm sure i'd choke on the prices.
OP- Not to denagrate the good product app rec's above, but to add once your car has all the large scratches removed, if it has any, you should be able to use ONE polish and ONE top coat, or as it's called now LSP for last stage product and then go drive! And i'm talking absolute show level finish and i know the difference. Now this is the minimalist approach taken by the standard bearer rotary. Now that we are all trying DA's i fully expect to able to do a polish in one step still. If you have to use two polishes on an already decent finish, you need to think about finding a better polish. I"m now trying Menzerna 85RD and 106FA, but i expect to use only thier finest 85RD on the X. Polishs vary a likek crazy.
IMO take the time to find THE best polish and THE best LSP and you're done, for that car, under those temp/hum conditions :smile:.
Detailers get paid for putting a lot of time into their work and they hang a lot with the makers who want to constantly be bringing out new products, so they tend to layer a lot. And it's in their interest of course to purport "majic" to thier concoction. On this forum i think i can say without being crucified that on regular colors, ONCE YOU'VE FED the finish, the more of anything you put on, the more clarity will be lost. Yes there may a bit of gloss enhancement from light refraction in metalics, but in solids, it's damn small from my experience. Remember none of these products IS CLEAR, so how can you expect it to have more clarity? I used to layer megs 7 up to 6 times. And honestly i think the little difference i thought was there was in my head. IMO the important thing is to follow polishing with a high oil product. This will give you maximum pop - done deal. Of course there are many who will disagree. Adding more layers should cloud or milk the finish. I can tell you it sure does on my berlina test door. Less is more. And of course if you have black, less is an imperative.
Only my working opinions, your opinoins welcome. OGB, we'll have to hook up!
OP- Not to denagrate the good product app rec's above, but to add once your car has all the large scratches removed, if it has any, you should be able to use ONE polish and ONE top coat, or as it's called now LSP for last stage product and then go drive! And i'm talking absolute show level finish and i know the difference. Now this is the minimalist approach taken by the standard bearer rotary. Now that we are all trying DA's i fully expect to able to do a polish in one step still. If you have to use two polishes on an already decent finish, you need to think about finding a better polish. I"m now trying Menzerna 85RD and 106FA, but i expect to use only thier finest 85RD on the X. Polishs vary a likek crazy.
IMO take the time to find THE best polish and THE best LSP and you're done, for that car, under those temp/hum conditions :smile:.
Detailers get paid for putting a lot of time into their work and they hang a lot with the makers who want to constantly be bringing out new products, so they tend to layer a lot. And it's in their interest of course to purport "majic" to thier concoction. On this forum i think i can say without being crucified that on regular colors, ONCE YOU'VE FED the finish, the more of anything you put on, the more clarity will be lost. Yes there may a bit of gloss enhancement from light refraction in metalics, but in solids, it's damn small from my experience. Remember none of these products IS CLEAR, so how can you expect it to have more clarity? I used to layer megs 7 up to 6 times. And honestly i think the little difference i thought was there was in my head. IMO the important thing is to follow polishing with a high oil product. This will give you maximum pop - done deal. Of course there are many who will disagree. Adding more layers should cloud or milk the finish. I can tell you it sure does on my berlina test door. Less is more. And of course if you have black, less is an imperative.
Only my working opinions, your opinoins welcome. OGB, we'll have to hook up!
This (most of it) has been my combo for for couple yrs now. No joke, takes time. Start with a small section (6"x6"), or work on something else besides ur NSX
. Remember slow as you go, shortcuts is risky, start with least abrasive, always, until you know your compounds/pads/tools. Try some tried/true methods you find. Hang out at detailing forums, make youtube ur friend. I did this part time, but even @ $300/car for a days worth of work (paint only), I didnt wanna keep that up (read: back=ouchy for a week+).
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I just finished a van with the Flex 3401 DA and Menzerna 85RD which from what i've read at autogeek and detailedimage and live2details forums is likely a top contender for best polish. It worked very well by hand so it would be a great one for OP to try if you haven't jumped already.
Meguires products have a huge following as they were just about all we had for consumers in the US for most of my 61 years. I've been using/trying it since i was a Harley mechanic and chopper builder in the 70's. It's always had a neat charisma and great management, but frankly their products have always been inferior and i stopped using their stuff about 20 years ago. I like engineered products by chemists. Mequires best polishes to this day are not as good as 3m's polishes of 15 years ago. And now we have the german products available. which appear to blow away 3m as they rock with a DA. How come all those decades of show street rods have mostly used Meg's if they are not top notch? They as i have done many times layer many coats of #7 to fill. After a rain, polish and fill again, and agian. Enough already.
There is now some buzz about Megs new DA system. Folks like it, but if you ask if it looks as good as Menz or Wolfgang, they say you will still have a glaze(filler). Wrong answer. 3M recently bought Megs. Of course again, if you don't have a dark color, #9 will likely make you very happy. I"m an OCD hair splitter.
Meguires products have a huge following as they were just about all we had for consumers in the US for most of my 61 years. I've been using/trying it since i was a Harley mechanic and chopper builder in the 70's. It's always had a neat charisma and great management, but frankly their products have always been inferior and i stopped using their stuff about 20 years ago. I like engineered products by chemists. Mequires best polishes to this day are not as good as 3m's polishes of 15 years ago. And now we have the german products available. which appear to blow away 3m as they rock with a DA. How come all those decades of show street rods have mostly used Meg's if they are not top notch? They as i have done many times layer many coats of #7 to fill. After a rain, polish and fill again, and agian. Enough already.
There is now some buzz about Megs new DA system. Folks like it, but if you ask if it looks as good as Menz or Wolfgang, they say you will still have a glaze(filler). Wrong answer. 3M recently bought Megs. Of course again, if you don't have a dark color, #9 will likely make you very happy. I"m an OCD hair splitter.
It could be because your opinion of their products is not consistent with the experience of users of their products.
It could also be that the difference between product manufacturers isn't as important as the difference between the techniques used in applying them.
I'm going with "all of the above". :biggrin:
Well said, Ken. As has been said, "there's more than one way to skin a cat." I happen to like the Megs DA Microfiber approach because it's (1) easier and (2) easier. I'm at the age where I prefer not to spend an entire Saturday detailing a car. Although I enjoy the end result, I have more important and/or better things to do. Just my .02---
Where's its mouth? Does it count carbs?:biggrin:
Caroline-NSX your car looks amazing!!!.....anyway ive got a friend in TN that has a professional detailing business and he does a great job, he will often travel to clients, lmk if you would like to get in contact with him
Do yourself a favor get a Porter Cable random orbital buffer. They are idiot proof. I use it to put wax on and everything. Owning a used car dealership it's a life saver. Saves time and money. I have used just about every wax / gimmick out there. Application is key to results. If you just want to hide the swirls / hazing "Ice" works wonders but will not last but will hide a lot and can be applied in direct sunlight. Black box works great as well but takes 3X as long to get the same results as ice but lasts longer. Turtle wax has a wax that is black as well that is great for hiding chips because it fills them in with black wax. Makes a mess but lasts a few washes. Carnauba wax is hands down the best way to protect the finish. Water beads off it fantastic! I have found it to be the best balance between shine protection and durability. It dose not cover swirls as well as synthetic products. You would need to remove the swirls before getting quality results from Carnauba in my experience. Good news is if you pick up a random orbital buffer you can remove scratches and swirls fairly easy. It will pay for itself in the time you save. I use the white all round density foam pads for scratch heavy swirl removal with some buffing compound. I like ( 3m / imperial ) its cheep and give consistent results on all color cars. Then I use the black lower density foam for polishing compound / wax. And follow up with imperial hand glaze for that real wet shine.
Would you be talking about Eric Witt of TruShine out of Knoxville? If so, what a great guy. Really knows his stuff, up on all the newest product & techniques, highly recommended. Won't destroy your wallet, either.
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