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Come on Acura, MORE POWER!!!

3.5 L @ 100 HP/per liter would give the current car the power it needs to be competitive. 3.5L @ 120 HP/L (S2000) -- 420HP.. would give the current car enough power to be back on top.

ie.. the new GT3's 3.6 L makes 380 HP and it is very fast. The NSX with similar power should do o-60 in 4.0-4.3 seconds and 1/4 at 12 mid @ 116-118 MPH. Very competitive. Go HONDA!
 
topdaytrader said:
Don't get me wrong. I love the NSX, especially its look. But its fact that NSX is way under power for $90k car.
I know most ppl have seen Best Motoring or other vids showing 996TT, EVO, STI, GTR, RX7, z06, viper destory NSX on the track. .


This is exactly my point, and it looks like we can soon add a $35 Cosworth Ford Focus to that list. In 1990 Honda crushed the competition with styling and engineering that set a new standard in the sports car world. Even today it practically hangs with the top dogs in the world. But it's the 21st century now, and the bar has been raised a lot higher. Cheap (and I mean that in every sense of the word) imports are coming from the factory with out-of-the-box performance that matches or beats our marvelous machines.

Granted, there is so much more to the NSX experience than the numbers show.More to the experience than there is to the Z06, Evo, WRX, even 911, blah, blah, blah... But the fact remains that our exotic supercar is losing its exoticness and its supercar edge. IMHO Honda should step to the plate and build a $100K answer to the current day competetition or, as Trader says, discontinue the poor thing.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE MY NSX! But for the sake of the integrity of the marque, please Honda, improve it in a meaningful way. No more face-lifts for the old broad. Give her a new heart and a new body! Make us proud to own the first model in a long line of competition trouncing NSXes.
 
Am I the only one who thinks the new HP wars are completely getting out of control? Really, who needs a 300HP focus!?
 
Yep, you're the only one...

dlongo said:
Am I the only one who thinks the new HP wars are completely getting out of control? Really, who needs a 300HP focus!?

Probably. I'm not seeing a downside to more power :D .
 
WARNING: RANT!

I remember reading an article a while back, questioning the buying tastes of the American consumer. In short, it went on to say that the "need" for a big SUV is the same as the "need" for an automatic assult rifle. It is some sort of survivalist mentality driving these purchases, with some sort of comfort that buying one will offer protection for some sort of percieved possiblity of danger that doesn't actually exist. To some degree that is true, you don't need 550 hp to do anything, whether picking up the dry cleaning or merging in traffic. How much power does anyone need before they feel safe? Safe from what, ever losing a speed contest under any conditions?

Honda has engineered quality into every car they make, and has built a following because of it. In my opinion, I was very dissapointed when they rebadged a Trooper and called it a Honda. Was a SUV built by another company actually as good as a car designed by Honda? Why did Honda want to associate itself with a car company that used Joe Schmoe to sell product? Worse is now, Honda is going to supply engines to Saturn! Saturn! That stupid company that makes cars for people that people that don't like cars and would get in line to buy a car from Maytag?!!!

Back at SEMA, all the Honda and Acura execs were pushing the 'platform' idea. Honda makes products that are aimed at the middle weight division, and not heavyweights. Honda makes quality products that make a great platform for the aftermarket due to the fact that the cars are not that peaky, and there is always room for more performance improvement built in. Honda doesn't want to make cars that will be less reliable for performance gain. Tell them that the NSX is underpowered and they will point you to the Comptech booth. They even have the show cars on their hondanews.com site with the Comptech superchargers.

Hondas cars are bland when it comes to style. Bland cars are great for modding. Honda is offering some new FP (factory performance) kits to enhance the interior, exterior, and suspensions. Want more power? Go to the aftermarket. That seems to be the direction Honda wants you to go, for now.

I don't know if the "go the aftermarket route" is the way to go, now. (Older) People want turn-key cars, with all the bells and whistles from the factory. They don't want hi reving engines, they want to be lazy and have torque on demand down low in the rev range. They don't want small light cars, they want full sized cars that are loaded with everything. This is very different to the "theory" behind the NSX.

When the NSX was designed, the chassis was the focal point. These days it is all about the engine. Nobody likes the D-NX concept. Too bland, hybrid engine, blah, blah, blah...but the car does have some merits. Wheels at the far corners, mid-engine AND four seats, front spoiler that hides any intakes and makes downforce over the steering wheels, blah, blah, blah...Sure, I like having the firewall behind me, but I could get much more stuff into my Porsche, even if the back seat was worthless.

So what should Honda do with the NSX? Too late to breath new sales life into the old machine. Some high tech interior materials would have gone a long way to getting rid of the eighties look. Seems like the NSX engine can't be improved upon, even though any and every other car company can get some marginal performance gain every year from their flagship cars. I can buy a BMW M3 made out of carbon fiber body panels, while the NSX body is from an improved (over the original grade) aluminum still made under contract by a company other than Honda. (Anyone know the name of the company?)

If the NSX went on as is for a few years, that wouldn't be such a bad thing. However, I don't like the fact that Honda won't release any info on a possible new model. Should I upgrade to a 2003, if it is the last year of the NSX, or do I wait and see if there is a new model. If not, do I buy a used '03, keep my NSX for the near future and wait and see, or are things going to be dull at Honda after they retire the NSX? Every other car maker leaks new model info to judge demand, maybe Honda should follow suit. Maybe the entire idea of building a performance car that lasts 15 years and 150K miles is silly, considering how quickly things change these days.

Well, when I find a better car I'll buy it. Hope it is another NSX. I like Honda, and after the first few models of cars in the seventies, they made some cute cars that appealled to young buyers. These days, the cars seem to be made for a more mature buyer, and that seems to be who is buying them. The new Element SUV was designed for 22 year olds, but the average buyer is 41 years old. Funny, I don't think that I'll ever see a forty something year old in an Element advertisement. Maybe they should build an NSX that appeals to a younger crowd, then the forty+ crowd can buy into the youth-culture aspect of the machine.

Seems like the older buyer will spend money on an entry level BMW, or MB, before a top of the line Acura, so a $150K exotic is not in the pipeline. If the direction of Honda's superbike development is any indication, the next Honda sports car will be half the price with marginally better performance. Less exotic and more real world, will sell more units, not Corvette inspired color choices.

I've said it before and here it is again: Honda went in the wrong diection with the NSX. They created the perfect car, and then changed the definition of perfect to lure upscale auto buyers. Instead of the high tech fighter jet, we now have a luxo-grand tourer ala Porsche 928. "The gentlemen's sports car." Instead of the T model, they should have gone in the other direction. Make the cheaper to produce, the climate control/radio/cd/leather dash and doors/wheels could all be replaced with something better and lighter. Replacing the seats with Recaros would save $8K off the price. Throw in some Zanardi/Type S style weight reduction while keeping the power steering, and the car would only weigh a few more pounds if it were made of steel.

Maybe the question is: What does the NSX represent at the $90K price level? Too much the overpriced toy for the performance crowd, and not enough bells and whistles for the poser lot. I'd like to see the NSX continue as is, if there won't be a new model. I'll just have to add the aluminum pedals, myself. Of course that allows me to choose the one's I like, and that won't be popular with the stock crowd, but I can always look forward to adding a supercharger. Intake/exhaust/headers is good for 10% more power, I guess that is the best place to start, but for now I'm still okay with things, performance wise.
 
I kind of like the NSX the way it is now. It's still an exotic that everyone knows about but is rarely seen, even where I live, in the 4rth largest city in the US. I like the way it hasn't changed in over 10 years, keeps the resale value up. I hope Honda keeps it going for another 2 years, but by then even I think they should improve on its performance. Can you imagine what an NSX would be like if it were desinged now?
 
What if a more powerful NSX would result in the reliabilty that is similar to the Ferrari, Lambo, Porsche etc. Maybe the reliability of these new hotrods won't be so good either. Everyone knows the reputation the NSX has in this regard. Maybe we should just sit back and watch to see if their wheels stay on. Even if I could afford a Lambo, Porsche or Ferrari, I wouldn't buy one over my NSX. Because, I like to drive, not fix, my car. Not to mention, my golf clubs don't fit in any of those mentioned exotics; unless I leave my passenger behind.
 
flaminio said:
My dream NSX engine would be a 400 hp NA V8 that redlines at 9000 RPM.

And my dream NSX would have that engine and would weigh 2300 pounds.

spookyp said:
I think the NSX is pretty much done as of 2003, no? I had heard that there is no 04 model, so it may have been relegated to history.

Yes. When they introduced the refresh last year, they said they would sell 200 cars for 2002 and 200 for 2003, and that would be it.

spookyp said:
For me, getting the 03 was bittersweet. I have to admit that it does bug me that the Viper is cheaper and so much quicker it's ridiculous.

Actual selling prices for new Vipers are higher than for new NSXs.

spookyp said:
5 second to 60, $20k Neon

The Dodge Neon SRT-4 does not go 0-60 in five seconds. Typical times are in the high fives, e.g. 5.8. That's still impressive for a $20K car, though.

Originally posted by MAJOR STONER
I was very dissapointed when they rebadged a Trooper and called it a Honda.

No, they rebadged a Trooper and called it an Acura (SLX). They rebadged a Rodeo and called it a Honda (Passport).

Originally posted by MAJOR STONER
Was a SUV built by another company actually as good as a car designed by Honda?

Based on some of the reliability ratings I've seen, apparently it was not - and was dragging down the reliability ratings for Honda since those vehicles were sold under Honda's nameplate.
 
Major Stoner,

Sorry to say, I think that Honda went in exactly the RIGHT direction with the NSX. And, BTW, I am very happy with the car having a Targa Roof, and a 270-290 HP engine. It's EXACTLY the kind of luxury touring car that I desire. (And, yes, I also owned a Porsche 928, which had the same idea, but lacked the sheer fun to drive aspect that the NSX has).

The fact is, once Honda realized that they were getting into the $80K range, they recognized that they would no longer be selling new cars to racing enthusiasts, as much as to affluent gentlemen who wanted a fast luxury touring car that was a pleasure to drive. And yes, I'm one of those folks. And this is EXACTLY the car I want. And what's more, if people DON'T want the car because it is too slow in a 1/4 mile straight line sprint, I am GLAD, because I DON'T WANT a car that THOSE folks want.

The fact is, Honda is NOT making money on the NSX, as they sell too few of them. So, they need the car to be a loss-leader flag ship for the type of buyers that they WANT to attract into the Acura marque. And those are AFFLUENT, family type buyers in their 30s and 40s and beyond. If the NSX was refined into the type of flat out race car many folks here WISH it was, it would NOT serve it's BUSINESS purpose for the Honda motor company. You'd end up getting the kind of folks who buy Chevys and aspire to Vettes, or who buy Dodges and aspire to Vipers. They want the folks who aspire to BMW M5s and Benz E55s.
 
Remember, when Acura made the lighter, more basic Zanardi edition available in 1999, they had trouble selling the 50 cars they made... and the NSX Coupe sold even fewer cars than that when it was available 1996-2001.
 
But they won't aspire to far when their Mercedes Benz sedan is faster then the Acura NSX sport coupe. The sports car needs to put the sedan away before they will switch. JMO
 
Actually, I own an E55 AND an NSX. The E55 is clearly faster in a straight line. But the NSX is MUCH faster on any road with lots of turns. You can CARRY the NSX's speed all the way into the turns, and handle them effortlessly. You can't do that to anywhere NEAR the same degree with an E55.

And that doesn't even begin to touch on how much more pleasure the NSX is to drive than the E55. Frankly, anyone who drives both, and buys JUST on the basis of how it feels to drive one, will CERTAINLY end up with an NSX.

I am not talking about an oval track. I am talking about roads. Horsepower is a SMALL part of the equation in making a great performance road car. And, for DRIVING, as opposed to racing, the NSX has PLENTY of horsepower. And it is IRRELEVANT that other cars might have more. The NSX has a very efficient mix of power to weight.
 
The NSX is a great car and I love the way it looks and every thing about it. but I would still like to see more power. Cause when it cost 9K to just keep up with other cars that cost less half of what you pay for a NSX then it kind of sucks. But I still rather drive a NSX that is 270 HP than a 500 hp family car. Bt still for the money you pay for a NSX maybe it would not be a bad idea to get more power in it.
 
i agreeeeee. in addition to E55, i've tried cornering a CLK....handling around the corner didn't feel as solid as the nsx--yes the clk was lowered w/ wide tires as well.

shifting the topic a little. i've read somewhere that the production for 2004/2005 will be all steel w/ V8@ 400bh+ price tag to be less than 55K-- is this true? don't tell me it is..........if it is, imma go stand in the corner, hold my breath and cry!! :D


dougjgreen said:
Actually, I own an E55 AND an NSX. The E55 is clearly faster in a straight line. But the NSX is MUCH faster on any road with lots of turns. You can CARRY the NSX's speed all the way into the turns, and handle them effortlessly. You can't do that to anywhere NEAR the same degree with an E55.

And that doesn't even begin to touch on how much more pleasure the NSX is to drive than the E55. Frankly, anyone who drives both, and buys JUST on the basis of how it feels to drive one, will CERTAINLY end up with an NSX.

I am not talking about an oval track. I am talking about roads. Horsepower is a SMALL part of the equation in making a great performance road car. And, for DRIVING, as opposed to racing, the NSX has PLENTY of horsepower. And it is IRRELEVANT that other cars might have more. The NSX has a very efficient mix of power to weight.
 

shifting the topic a little. i've read somewhere that the production for 2004/2005 will be all steel w/ V8@ 400bh+ price tag to be less than 55K-- is this true? don't tell me it is..........if it is, imma go stand in the corner, hold my breath and cry!! :D [/B]


Hmmm...I've heard that rumor as well. It's as old as time itself. Don't hold your breath.
 
The REAL nsxtasy said:

Actual selling prices for new Vipers are higher than for new NSXs.

This point is just not true. I was not able to get the dealer to budge all that far when I got the 03. That's part of why I did the lease deal rather than buying it. The sticker on the car is $90k. There is currently no $7500 give back. The dealers are just not willing to budge all that much on the 03. I could have gotten an 03 Viper cheaper than the 03 NSX and that is a fact.

Why? Because sticker price on the Dodge is $83k and sticker price on the NSX is $90k. We've gone through this argument before. Sticker price is king because that is what you are going to pay unless YOU are able to manage a great deal.

But if you are the type that can do that, you could have done it on the car that started with a cheaper sticker to begin with.

I'll be 100% honest and admit that if it weren't for the lease deal, and my nostalgic love for the NSX, I would have gone for the Viper. The SRT-10 is just much more car for the money...
 
Up until the past few months (with the scarce supply as they are phased out), new NSXs could be had for ~$73-75K without much trouble. I doubt that you could get a new Viper for that price.
 
Not trying to be argumentative, but once the SRT-10 specs were solid, I had a chance to buy hold over 02 Gen 2's in the 70's. At the time, I wasn't thinking of selling my 98 NSX, but I did test drive one. The Viper wasn't for me, although it is an awesome ride.

The SRT-10 is a whole 'nother story. It's a much more civilized car than the Gen 2 (this is actually a bad thing to most Viper guys). When I decided to get the 03 NSX, all "special deals" were off.

That's why you can't rely on a "special deal". Maybe Honda needs to stop BSing with the price and just drop the sticker rather than there being some "inside line" that the prices will inevitably plummet once the dealers need to unload these things.

Think about it...

"It's not *really* $90k because at the end of the year when no one has bought one, Honda will dump them at $70k"

This is hardly a selling point and is actually a *huge* strike against the NSX. Plus, it doesn't help anyone because the official price of the car is still $90k and unknowing folks who actually buy them new get a nice kick in the head when Honda *massively* dumps the price 6 months after they bought the car. Very bad... Put skin in the game and just sell the thing for $70k if that's all it's worth.
 
dougjgreen said:
Major Stoner,

Sorry to say, I think that Honda went in exactly the RIGHT direction with the NSX. And, BTW, I am very happy with the car having a Targa Roof, and a 270-290 HP engine. It's EXACTLY the kind of luxury touring car that I desire. (And, yes, I also owned a Porsche 928, which had the same idea, but lacked the sheer fun to drive aspect that the NSX has).

The fact is, once Honda realized that they were getting into the $80K range, they recognized that they would no longer be selling new cars to racing enthusiasts, as much as to affluent gentlemen who wanted a fast luxury touring car that was a pleasure to drive. And yes, I'm one of those folks. And this is EXACTLY the car I want. And what's more, if people DON'T want the car because it is too slow in a 1/4 mile straight line sprint, I am GLAD, because I DON'T WANT a car that THOSE folks want.

The fact is, Honda is NOT making money on the NSX, as they sell too few of them. So, they need the car to be a loss-leader flag ship for the type of buyers that they WANT to attract into the Acura marque. And those are AFFLUENT, family type buyers in their 30s and 40s and beyond. If the NSX was refined into the type of flat out race car many folks here WISH it was, it would NOT serve it's BUSINESS purpose for the Honda motor company. You'd end up getting the kind of folks who buy Chevys and aspire to Vettes, or who buy Dodges and aspire to Vipers. They want the folks who aspire to BMW M5s and Benz E55s.

Very well said. I completely agree.
-Thomas
 
whs520 said:
Very well said. I completely agree.
-Thomas

The problem with all of this is that Honda is selling roughly 200 per year and has canceled the car as of 03. That kind of makes the whole point moot. The car didn't appeal to the M5/E55 crowd and didn't convince all too many people that dropping $75-$90k on a new Honda was a good idea.

I think the problem here is a radical demographic split. We all love the NSX, but I think a lot of folks on the board purchased 91-93s at bargain basement prices and are suitably impressed and enamored.

Consider if you would ACTUALLY shell out for a new one if you were in the position though. I was in the position and I did it, but I'm just being honest in saying it was VERY tough. And I'm precisely the demographic you guys are saying Honda is targeting since my "other car" is always a Benz or BMW (330xi currently). I've loved the NSX since I first saw it 12 years ago when I was a hungry college student. Because of that, I gave Honda my business against all logic. The fact that there are only 199 other folks in the United States who will do the same in the very last year that the NSX will exist is testament to it's ultimate failure. It's a shame really, because the NSX deserved more.

The 02/03 redesign should have brought it to performance parity with the Corvette Z06 at least.
 
spookyp said:
The 02/03 redesign should have brought it to performance parity with the Corvette Z06 at least.
When Honda came out with the higher performance, weight reduced, edgier Zanardi at $4K less cost, there weren't a whole lot of folks to immediately snatch them up. So that leads me to believe that there isn't a latent demand in the new car market for a higher performance NSX and that the current new NSX demographic is looking for a grand tourer and not a uber high performance sports car.

Of course with the Ford GT and Porsche GT3s coming out, who really cares if Honda doesn't want to play in this space? A new NSX-R would be extremely attractive to me, but I can't see the business case for it. And if they come out with a new GT, I think they'd have a hard time surpassing the elegance of an Aston Martin or its ilk.

Honda seems to be trapped between a rock and a hard place...
 
Number9 said:
When Honda came out with the higher performance, weight reduced, edgier Zanardi at $4K less cost, there weren't a whole lot of folks to immediately snatch them up. So that leads me to believe that there isn't a latent demand in the new car market for a higher performance NSX and that the current new NSX demographic is looking for a GT and not a uber high performance sports car.

Of course with the Ford GT and Porsche GT3s coming out, who really cares if Honda doesn't want to play in this space? A new NSX-R would be extremely attractive to me, but I can't see the business case for it...

This is hardly fair... The Zanardi came in ONE color (at least it was red though!) and had BARELY more performance than the base model. And by the time the Zanardi came out, the NSX was really already either overpriced OR underpowered depending on which way you want to look at it.

I think the demographic really does want an uber high performance sports car, but the NSX just isn't one. At the price range of the NSX, a lot of it is perceived value. The fact that there are now too many fast sedans nearly as quick, as quick, or quicker than the NSX is like the nail in the coffin. The worst part is that some of these sedans are much less money for nearly the same performance.

I really strongly believe that if the NSX performed like a Viper, sales would be a lot stronger. Personally, I care that Honda doesn't want to play in this space because I'd really like to see the NSX redeem itself. :(
 
I traded my T for the higher performance Z but there weren't many other takers with that view. Look, I share your sentiment for the car, but there's no shortage of fine sports cars on the market now - so ultimately, it's no great tragedy if the NSX goes "gentle into that good night..."
 
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