Comptechs Best NSX not near good enough (C&D)

[Number9]

[Sorry for going OT]

Dan, check this URL for the South Bay club meetings: http://northwest.nsxca.org/events.html
You're welcome to join us and perhaps test drive some of the participant's cars. Email me if you need further info.

 

[5inchfatlip]

Im surprised by the numbers as well....but one thing...our car looks more exotic, which in turn looks faster...I get all kinds of cars not wanting to race at times, and at the same time are all raced out...they see an NSX and are petrified to even give it a shot.. =)
for those that know cars, its a different story...

 

[ALLAN]

5inchfatlip, i do agree with you on the looks standpoint. the nsx looks faster standing still than the m3,m5,any mercedes,jagaur,base porsche911 does at 100mph.

 

[5inchfatlip]

Allan- if I pulled up next to your Lambo- I would be the petrified one...hehehhe...but wouldnt hesitate one bit to make a go at it!

 

[gheba_nsx]

Ok, before this two start to fight, I'll be the one asking this

: any chance to have the article scanned? At least the parts about the NSX?

 

[mdoan300]

Here's from a 1993 issue of Motor Trend: http://www.300zx-twinturbo.com/Articles/mt1.htm

Michael.


------------------
1994 300ZX Twin Turbo

 

[nsxtasy]

Well, for one thing, the results in that particular magazine article are very different from most other magazine tests. If you are highly biased (like Allan, who ignores all facts, or like mdoan300, who doesn't even own an NSX and only comes to nsxprime to taunt NSX owners), you only quote the absolute worst test results you can find, and ignore all the other tests.

For example, all of the sudden they start talking about the 3.0-liter '91-94 NSX, and a nine-year-old comparison against four other cars, all of which have been discontinued for years.

Fine, since they brought it up, we can discuss that comparison now. They quote only the Motor Trend test result of 0-60 in 5.6 seconds and ignore all of these other tests:

AutoWeek (8/26/91) 5.3
Car & Driver (9/90) 5.2
Motor Trend (12/90) 5.4
Sports Car International (12/90) 5.03

The 1/4 mile results are similarly worse than other NSX tests:

Car & Driver (9/90) 13.8 @ 102 MPH
Motor Trend (12/90) 13.7 @ 103.1 MPH
Sports Car International (12/90) 13.47 @ 105.6 MPH

And that particular Motor Trend is equally biased in favor of the other cars tested, since their numbers are better than those cars usually get in other magazine tests. For example, check out the Road & Track from 2/94, whose figures for those other cars are much more typical of most magazine tests:

Mitsu 3000GT 0-60 5.7, 1/4 14.2 (0.4 and 0.2 seconds slower than that Motor Trend)

Nissan 300ZX Turbo 0-60 6.0, 1/4 14.4 (0.8

and 0.6 seconds

slower than that Motor Trend)

Toyota Supra Turbo 0-60 5.3, 1/4 13.7 (0.4 and 0.3 seconds slower than that Motor Trend)

If you're biased, you go and find the only magazine article that has all the other cars 0.4 seconds faster 0-60 than most other magazine articles, and the NSX 0.4 seconds slower 0-60 than most other magazine articles.

Heck, I bet if you are looking to diss ANY car, you could find a magazine somewhere that has results that are worse than all the other magazines. But most of us have better things to do than to go into forums for enthusiasts of some other car trying to make fun of owners there by touting the worst test results we can find. And most of us know that it's not only biased - it's dishonest to do so.

[This message has been edited by nsxtasy (edited 13 August 2002).]

 

[effer]

Hi everybody!

Discussion here is going strong and car performance is another very emotional subjet.

But for sure we must all not forget that we are here all sport car addicts and for sure are discussing about things that are frankly embarrassement of riches!

All of these cars are fine cars ( exception made for the Mustang ;O) ) ( M3, M5, z06, 911, Merc, ... )


Allan you wrote: ( BTW Hi! Congratulations for having a Diablo and also an NSX. For me the Diablo is quintessence the real exotic even though I find NSX's tail in interior cockpit to be the nicest period ). The Mc Laren F1 is also not too bad!!!

"...if the nsx were that good, they would sell. people buy lots of overpriced underperforming cars, so why not the nsx?"

Yes but you must not forget that this rule applies well in case of overpriced underperforming AND OVERpowered cars!!!

People are in general not so refined and competent about real performance, and their knowledge often stops at thinking that

more power equals more performance and worst

more cubic inches and torque equal more performance

thus forgetting that any power is irrelevant if you can't properly transfer it to the ground ( here comes engine's smoothness, body stifness, suspension tuning, and all what, as a competent sport car enthousiast you are, already knows! ).

All Viper, Cobra, Mustang types of cars are easy to sell because ignorant majority will always jump on big power packages.

But try to propose a as competent and as performant underpowered car and you'll have to make some education before!

Do you think a Lotus Elise or Exige sells well? Damn expensive for a 140 or so bhp exotic!

But we all know that this car really shines on a track...

Honda choose the hard way in trying to impose trough the exotic field an underpowered car at this price; in 1990 proposing 270 bhp instead of 300bhp on a Ferrari 348TB was acceptable and not so far from competition considering its lightier all aluminum design, but today to play the same game the NSX needs at least 350 bhp if not 400!

The name of the game is to propose at least an equivalent weight to power ratio as the competition, no matter how Honda will achieve it...

But the NSX did, at its debut, something incredible in being able to compete and outperform much more expensive cars
( Testarossa, Countach, 911s...I mean on track, not considering some specific tests... )

And isn't remarkable that NSXs are always compared with much more powerful and tire patched cars?

But don't get me wrong, I just not only want that with my NSX, I want to, again, outperform competition!

Only this can be considered as an extraordinary achievement.

Because, and this is where embarrassement of riches finds all its significance; in real world speaking, a couple of seconds of differences in track laptimes or some more g fractions are not so significative.

Am I right in saying that on a real street race, the winner between a 911 Turbo guy and an NSX, at this level, will be the luckier, the craziest and not to forget the most competent driver no matter the car?

Maybe I am wrong and correct me if so.

Since the Viper's price tag got higher a few years ago, what happened with sale volume? ( I'm asking, don't know, but did it dropped? ??? )

I would like to end this in saying that I appreciate to read your texts and it is fun to have you in our forum.

A little question, did you ever timed one of your start ( from rest ) and what are typical times you can expect to do on street conditions?

On a track, are you as fast with your Diablo as with your NSX? Did you ever make the comparison? Same day as usual...

You know, personnally, I don't give a s..t wich car is fastest because if I could afford a Diablo I would have one for sure. Soo nice!

I had the chance to drive a 2001 6,0 liter
( yellow ). I will comment on that later...


NSXtasy you wrote: ( Hi! I'm a new member and I appreciate your contributions-and your real life sense )
"Again, my point remains, Diablo's claim is simply untrue - there aren't a whole lot of cars (stock) that are significantly faster than the current NSX."

I tend to agree with that and not to so believe what's written in magazine. In fact I would prefer to rely on my own experience.

What's really happening in the real world.
What do I see on streets knowing also that I must be careful of not being fooled by modified cars ( nitro, sc and so on... ).

As an example on how magazines specs must be taken into perspectives: would anybody of us would even think winning on a track over a Mc Laren F1?

We should though because is this car only capable of 0,86g skidpad testing!!!

I read in don't remmeber wich mag that when they do test radar detectors, they purchase them instead of accepting those offered by companies because they realized that they were always better than those on the market.

If this is possible with these negligible profit makers what about expensive cars?

The day cars will be tested that way I will begin to believe more theirs performances numbers.

I'd like very much to create such a magazine, anybody interested?

With all my respects

effer

 

[MAJOR STONER]

NSXTASY: Your oligophrenial ramblings are about as effective as a shallow, retarded junior high cheerleader's attempts at quantum mechanics. You are not as intelligent as I am, nor do you understand the particulars of logical discourse as I do, so be advised: I have destroyed people's lives (through legally acceptable means) over much less and I am in no way afraid of an inarticulate dunderpate such as yourself.


ALLAN: You are an unavailing, unassuming, pecksniffian, highly elliptical, wildly insensate, unevolved, and benign cretinous larvae whose IQ barely rivals his shoe size. Keep in mind: this observation was made after only reading a portion of your ineffectual prattlings. You would be wasting your precious time responding to me as you are deemed an unredeemable miscreant and someone whose level of integrity could only be challenged by that of Ed Gein.


NSXTASY: You "think" you have the right to inflict your insipid obiter dictum upon anyone. Well, be informed: you can espouse to whatever coprolalial, excerebrose faux-pontifications you like, but there will always be someone begging for the opportunity to put you in your place. In this particular instance, that someone was me.


ALLAN: You might "think" I'm sick, but you're quite mistaken. I, unlike yourself, possess a staggeringly enverdon sense of humor (i.e., I am not easily offended -- and that, quite simply, is what makes me superior to you).


NSXTASY: What a floccinaucinihilipilificated jackanapes you are. Were you not so unfortunate as to be stricken with the disease of disregestrinalitressitude, I would vanquish you and your pitiable existance just to see you suffer all the more. But you are far too infinitesimal a foe for me to waste my (extremely valuable) time decimating; nevertheless, I will offer this advice: laugh it off, fool.


ALLAN: You are a crybaby, sir; it is just that simple. What's more is that you have no concept of the very real state of of your own depravity. I am in no way a menace to society-at-large. I wish I could say the same for you and yours.


NSXTASY: Please don't respond; it only gets worse from here. Allow me to rephrase that in such a way that even a flatulopetic, undiscerning lickspigot like you can "understand": it took me all of two minutes to craft this response. It will undoubtedly take you the better part of two decades to "think" it through.


ALLAN: Go die, infant.


NSXTASY:;-P


ALLAN:;-P

 

[MAJOR STONER]

I'll do the fighting for you guys, you just stick to car talk

 

[MAJOR STONER]

Sorry, just trying to inject some humor. If you look back at all your posts at this site, I think that you will find that people here started to challange your opinions and intentions right after you named all the cars you need in your Dream Car Garage to make you happy. The article in question states clearly that the NSX is the best sports car at any price regardless of the numbers, yet all you do is quote numbers.

 

[ALLAN]

effer1,
thank you for the compliments on the sv. i have never tracked the sv in a way to compare it to my nsx. my guess would be that an early diablo would only have problems against an nsx on your average roadcourse under braking. their brakes are rediculously inadequate. the later diablos have incredible brakes, and combined with a huge power advantage and great handling an nsx wouldnt stand a chance on anything other than a very short tight track where the diablo couldnt take advantage of its power,and its size would become a hindrance. several years ago, in the "One lap of america" a stock sv came in second only to a mosler race car, and by a very tight margin. last year, a stock early model vt came in 10th, behind a wide varietty of modified cars.

the nsx has always been plagued by the fact that many lesser priced cars could run with or beat it in all performance areas. truth of the matter is, if acura wants to play with the big dogs now, it has some major redesigning to do.

nsxtasy, all magazine reports will vary from test rack conditions, weather conditions etc. plus some cars just come off the assembly line being faster than others. i watched my friends bone stock, brand new mazda rx7 r1 with 200 miles on the clock turn a 13.70@102mph. something that if i were lucky and on the perfect day, my nsx could match.

 

[ALLAN]

major stoner,
its all good, i dont take anything to heart. btw, i dont need anything in my dream garage im happy with what i have, for now atleast!lol

anyways, see i thought the topic of this thread was strictly about numbers? wasnt it?

the nsx is a great car,obviously i must like it enough to keep it. looking forward to the widebody and engine mods im planning, but i'll still choose my races wisely!

 

[Jimbo]

While I don't participate at the dragstrip, my friend did with his bone stock 92 NSX. He easily turned a 13.5 on his second run.

I therefore think it's fairly easy to turn 1/4 mile times in the 13.3-13.5 range with a 91-96 NSX. Either that, or he's a natural drag racer.

I also agree that the used NSX, priced at $30K-$45K represents a great sports-car bargain. A new NSX at $75K-$90K is much less of a bargain. I love the car and I'd be reluctant at those prices.

At one time Honda used to offer outstanding value with great performance and quality. I think as the years have gone by the value proposition of a Honda has dropped somewhat.

I just read the new write-up in Automobile on the new 350Z. It seems to be a really nice performance car at a very attractive price. Or, to put another way, it offers the kind of value that I normally once associated with Honda.

I'm partial to Honda products, however, I think they better rethink some of their newer products. And I hope that the next generation NSX has the kind of performance and panache that makes a $90K sticker price seem WAY TOO little.

-Jim

------------------
1992 NSX Red/Blk 5 spd #0330
1991 NSX Blk/Blk Auto #3070 (Sold)
1974 Vette 454 4 spd Wht/Blk
http://homepage.mac.com/jimanders/PhotoAlbum1.html

 

[ALLAN]

also effer1,
i think the nsx gets compared to all the higher powered, larger tired cars due to fact that for the last few years it is the only sportscar offered from japan, since the rx7,supra,3000gt have all been discontinued.

now lets hear about your ride in the yellow 6.0. i love the interior on those cars and have thought of getting one. i'd have to change to the sv style decklid and have a wing though.

 

[NSX TT]

Originally posted by ilya:
Well...the Supra doesn't look nearly as nice as.... hey... wait a minute... this isn't the Supraforums.

Sorry, my bad. Confusing these days.

Seriously guys. This thread is almost as bad as that Z06 vs. NSX thread on s2ki. I'm going to have to post this again:

[This message has been edited by ilya (edited 13 August 2002).]

ILYA YOU ARE THE BEST,LOL

 

[NetViper]

I never meant this thread to become a war!!

We all know that there are cars out there that are better than our NSX. Whether they are better quality is questionable. The 91-94 NSX represents in incredible value for a used car. It will outrun a 2003 350Z without much trouble and that IMO is impressive for a 10 y/o car.

Allan will never truly appreciate his NSX and if we all drove lamborghini's, maybe we would feel the same way. That being said, the NSX for most of us is a dream come true and we derive endless pleasure driving it on the street and or track.

I love my NSX and I don't care who knows it!

 

[ALLAN]

yeah, i love mine too!!

 

[NetViper]

Originally posted by ALLAN:
yeah, i love mine too!!

Didn't you put the BBSC on your car allan? Whats going on there? any updates?

 

[NosNsx]

Ilya whats with making fun of retarded people.

 

[NSX/MR2]

I hate to say anything about an NSX owner. Allan, I never posted anything about your SV top speed or aware of it, and I never diagreed that the Diablo are superior to the NSX in the perfomance department and the wild look. What I am trying to say is this is a community, and what's make this community so enjoyable is not just the NSX, but the people who own them, that is why I am defensive about the NSX (I know my car well compare to others), and I will have no problem disagreeing with you if something is not right. But put that aside, and look at what we are doing here in San Diego; we are having fun every weekend with the NSXs and enjoying each other company, and we don't mind other marques coming to hang with us. And if you have a chance to come down here to San Diego, Let me know and I will personally extend you the courtesy, and show you the hospitality of an SD NSX's owner.

 

[G-man]

Originally posted by 8000RPM:
Those are depressing results considering how the NSX is touted as a road-racing track car, but yet it crossed the finish line a whopping SIX seconds behind a stock Z06.

You guys act like you are surprised by their findings... come on. Each and every on eof you who actually own one of these cars and are honest with yourself will have to ultimately come to grips with the Good, the Bad and the Ugly of the NSX.

These tests are often quite unfair, biased and ultimately prove what they set out to prove... and that is that "My Daddy can beat up your Daddy!". These things always end up being a war of words over nothing.

I am reminded that there are more ways to judge a car than 0-60 times, lap times and power to weight ratios. While these numbers are great, they are just that NUMBERS! They don't mean anything. They are just a way to "keep score". Keep in mind that a Corvette will always be a Corvette and nothing more.

Ok, with that said, I have to hold up another shining example of proven NSX inferiority. For those of you with low self-esteme, you may want to stop reading now.

This list turned me on to "Best Motoring" video series where volume 1 was about the superiority of the TypeR NSX. Well, I bought the whole series and if you look at Volume 2, you will see that a stock 2001 BMW M3 runs circles around the various NSXs that they can throw at it as well as a number of other cars. Even a Subaru Legacy beat the NSX!

Face it, the NSX is "NOT fastest, NOT quickest, NOT lightest, NOT shortest stopping, NOT cheapest, NOT most expensive, NOT best looking, NOT ugliest, etc... I could go on forever. It does NOTHING better than any other car in the world, but it does a many of these things as good or better than most and provides it all wrapped up in a package that is fun and easy to drive everyday with the reliability of a Honda Civic. Let's not lose sight of why we like these cars, they are great to drive everday... some of you ONLY have 1 car.

Well, that is my $0.02 worth. Feel free to disagree with me. Feel free to flame me. Or feel free to finally admit to yourself that the NSX may not be the best car in the world... but it just may be the best car in the world... for you!

Gordon
2002 BMW M3

 

[Ag NSX]

I will say this, when I began looking for a sports car I began looking for a 91 911 turbo. The NSX was not even a consideration, until I drove one. At this time I could not figure out why someone would purchase a brand new one at $80k with the type of numbers it put out. At $35k I felt it was an awesome deal though.

Now after driving for 4 years, I would definitely pay the $80k for a new one. The engineering, quality and reliability of it is amazing.

Over the years I have convert many many friends to love the NSX. Many of them had different sports cars, some were young ricers thinking the NSX sucked and was too expensive. After letting them drive it and running against it, they just can't believe its speed and acceleration for the numbers it has (I recently dynoed at 231 rwhp).

Another thing most people never get to experience is the cockpit and how it's so smooth in corners and on the highway. Alot of people finish driving my NSX and they scratch their head in amazement. They make comments like, "Only 230hp?" or "It's alot more comfortable than my ____".

So I guess what I'm saying is that I think the NSX is priced appropriately for what you get. It's just that most people don't give it a chance based on published numbers, magazine tests and internet banter.

Kenric

 

[wctsao]

There are going to be plenty of people who bad mouth the NSX. Thats never going to change. I see Z06s and M3s everywhere. They try to speed by as if they need to impress. Don't they like their rides?

I hate to say this, but an M3 to me is just a 3-Series with a bigger engine. The Z06 isn't so special either. Its a modified Corvette, that all.

An NSX isn't based off of any lower class model. Its a mid-engine, hand built, all aluminum sports car using titanium components for its engine. I think only Ferrari has similar specifications.

Besides performance, whats makes a Z06 or M3 exotic? The Z06 is fiberglass and the M3 is steel.

Many non NSX owners will never understand whats so special about the NSX because all they are concerned with are performance numbers. Thats their loss.

There are plenty of older models Ferraris like the 348 and 512 that I would love to have over any Corvette or M3. The Ferraris may be slower but that doesn't bother me.

I agree that Acura made a big mistake by keeping the NSX in production so long. The 2002 was a big mistake. Similar to what Ferrari did with their Testarossa to 512TR to 512Ms by changing their headlights and freshing up the front end. (Just repaint'n the Jeep so to speak). That lasted from 84-94. Thats a 10 year span. The NSX has got it beat with its 12 year span.

Its sad, but the NSX will probably get more respect once its out of production and a complete new model takes its place as Acura's sports car.

 

[ALLAN]

Oh my god, Gordon. I think you will officially take over for me as being #1 on the shitlist!

netviper, i havent done anything with supercharging my car yet. i'm still not sure whether or not im going to supercharge, turbocharge, nos or what. maybe if i turbo, ill look into building my own kit. not sure if ill go internal or just stay bolt on. so far, im waiting on the rest of my widebody kit. ive got the hood and side skirts.it may come as a suprise to some of you who think i dont like this car, but ive got big plans for it,and the lotus too!