Detail on NSX Modified Single Turbo!

ilya

ilya

Experienced Member
Joined
7 February 2001
Messages
1,617
Location
CORONA, CA USA
***A question was asked on NSXSC about details on the new turbo offered by NSX Modified for 5K installed. I spoke to Larry and got the lowdown. He approved my posting of this information on the forum. I figured this is important info so I wanted to post it here as well. ***

OK, you're going to love me for this info. Just spoke to Larry and got the lowdown.
The turbo runs 6lbs of boost and puts out 365 rear wheel HP. He has the dyno sheet.
He feels this as high as you can go while maintaining reliability. They ran it at 9lbs of boost and he said it felt unsafe for the stock motor.
He mentioned some things about RC injectors, split second timing retardation, map sensors, Vortech Super FMU, nothing I could convey reliably. You guys will just have to come to the next meeting to see for yourself.
smile.gif


Here is the REAL NEWS! They already have a built NSX motor running 14.5lbs of boost and putting out 565 rear wheel HP with a water to air intercooler. Reinforced w/ some kind of metal sleeves (???), different compression (9:1), rods, etc...
He says this setup will work with either blower, SC or turbo. Apparently, Doug will appreciate the power so he can run with the crazy Porsches on the straights.

All of this info is from his mouth just 5 minutes ago. He has the cars and will be showing it at the next meeting.

***I think David would know more about this than anyone else here as he already has done something similar and is running that kind of power. I'm sure the reinforcement is very expensive and only for those with a lot of money. In any case, wanted to post this info for everyone. I'm sure we will know much more after the next meeting which I think is 1 week before NSXPO.***
 
Ilya,
Is there any way that we could have Larry with or without the car attend our CalCoastalNSX meeting on Oct. 18th in Calabasas? This is one week later than Alex's meeting in San Diego. I have left Larry a message, but he hasn't returned my call
frown.gif
. I'm very interested(as others are) in finding out more info. This is a topic that would be a great addition to our meeting. Hope to hear from Larry soon. John.
 
Hi John. You make it sound like he actually checks all his voice mails.
smile.gif

You were lucky you could leave one at all since the box is usually maxed out.
biggrin.gif



I talked to him about this today and he said he wanted to go to the next meeting. He said he could bring the NSX w/ the setup. I didn't mention anything to you yet because there was talk about the Vortech guys coming first, so I figured he would do the next one. I think Larry knows something about that as well as he did the first one-off w/ a Vortech some time ago. It was at his shop at a meeting a few months ago when he did the SC discussion. The piping was all chrome and it looked pretty cool.


Anyway, keep me updated on who the guest will be for that meeting. If you want me to confirm with Larry for our next meeting, I can do that as he is willing to come.


[This message has been edited by ilya (edited 04 October 2001).]
 
Hey ilYa, what type of turbo is he using? Does it require tapping into the engine to get the oil or does it have external oil reservoir? Not that I'll get it but just curious. I think Bell kit uses aerodyne which doesn't require oil feed, right?
 
I wish I knew more, but I don't. Only what I managed to remember while talking to him earlier today. After the next meeting, I'm sure many of us will have all the details to share with everyone.
 
I have a question concerning reliability and why Comptech and this new turbo kit don't address this particular issue. I also have a Camaro (easy to mod for big HP) and the Camaro community does a ton a supercharger/turbo installs. For maximum realibility we NEVER use timing retards done through an ignition box or NEVER use an FMU. Every unit is professional tunned by programming the computer for the specific fuel and timming needs at each RPM interval. This is the only way to combat any issues of detonation and assures maximum reliabilty. Also every car is different and every car has different mods, so the tunning is perfect when tunned by burning chips, etc. I was wondering why this type of tunning isn't done with the NSX's considering most of the turbo and supercharger installs are professional done. The main reason mechanical units like FMUs and BTM are used, is because not everybody has the knowledge and equipment to program the computer. However there is no comparsion when using FMUs to specifically tunning each car's computer. More horsepower is always found using this method too. I believe GruppeM uses a more advanced tunning system or the other option would be to use a Motec, etc. Any comments? I thought it was a valid point because everyone is worried about reliability and this issue is what reliability is all about.
 
I think that's an excellent point and a great question to ask Larry at the next meeting. From what I know having been at his shop for many hours, is that he tunes everything himself. He does not believe in chips and does not use them. He personally tuned my NOS setup, Alex's Gruppe M, Doug's SC, and many others I'm sure. When he says he uses fuel management and a Vortech Super FMU, they are both fully tunable and adjustable units. He made many adjustments to my Vortec FMU before we were done. If anything, he has been the guy to tune other aftermarket products like the Comptech SC to produce more power w/ fuel management.

His words to me when I started the NOS kit where "Turbos, Superchargers and even NOS are not necessarily bolt-ons, they are projects. It's not installed once and left alone. It's something you are constantly tuning, adjusting and improving. Think of the setup as the first step in a project."

He is very much into individual tuning and setup. He personally adjusts and tests eveyrthing and does not use aftermarket chips. The one thing I expect from him and the setup is that he will spend a large amount of time tuning MY car and perfecting it. That is... once I've saved up a bit more and can afford it.
biggrin.gif


[This message has been edited by ilya (edited 04 October 2001).]
 
Jeff has a good point. That is one of the reasons the Gruppe M SC kit costs as much as it does, is because of all hours spent during the R&D and tuning of the EPROM.

The factory ECU is limited though, in its programming capabilities, and does not have enough "points" and range to adjust the different parameters by itself to allow for proper and safe performance in a forced induction situation, and that is why there are a couple of piggyback computer modules included in the kit, that splice into the ECU wiring (done through adapters, no cutting involved) to extend those capabilities enough to make any ECU tuning more responsive.

I had achieved the 365-370 RWHP with the STOCK fuel regulator, and was done through ECU programming with 6.5 pounds of boost, unintercooled.

These inexpensive forced induction systems by Larry and a couple of other people will probably get the job done, but in my experience, those mechanical FMUs used to "tune" these systems are unreliable and inconsistent at best in my experience.

JMO, ICBW.

Alex
 
Originally posted by GruppeMUSA:
These inexpensive forced induction systems by Larry and a couple of other people will probably get the job done, but in my experience, those mechanical FMUs used to "tune" these systems are unreliable and inconsistent at best in my experience.
Alex
Click to expand...

Since, I cannot bring my car over to the all of the west coast gurus living here on the east coast, reliability is one thing that is most important to me. I would like the single turbo unit setup on my car. So, my question. Can the ECU componets that "piggyback" the the stock unit from the Gruppe or another aftermarket source be used on NSXmodifieds setup to manage the upgrade? This is to setup and somewhat forget about it type of install. I love doing the work on my car, but with something like this I would trust it to the pros.
 
I definetly agree with Ilya, its all about the tuning. I just had my CT tuned and they were able to put down about another 20 hp to the wheels, clean up the power band, and place the car in a safer range.

John & Ilya, I'll call the Vortech guys today to confirm the meeting on the 18th.
 
I wish there was a way you guys could document or tape these meetings, etc. It is such a disadvantage being on the East Coast and missing out on all these events. Also for the guy from SC, remember Mark Bausch can fly to your house to install GruppeM and Comptech superchargers. However, I just wish we could have our cars dyno tunned throughout the entire RPM band for maximum tunning using "piggy backs" or stand alones. I would pay the extra money to ensure the car is running perfect and that the most power is being derived from the mods. If I had to pick one unit right now for max reliability, it would for sure be the GruppeM unit for the extensive look into this matter.
 
Alex is right in that you get what you pay for. This 5K setup will be the first step for me. Once installed and I save up some more, I will slowly improve the electronics and tuning one step at a time as I can afford to do so. All of these new kits are definitely a 'cheaper' solution for those of us who can not afford it or do not want to spend 10K all at once.
 
Originally posted by jsottile:
... More horsepower is always found using this method too...
Click to expand...


Actually, that's the bigger issue. With care you can get the simpler solutions to be entirely reliable up to the practical HP limits of a stock bottom end, it's just that they are likely to run fat (rich) under various loads and rev ranges if you want to ensure that they don't ever run lean (the dangerous part).

The problem with augmenting fuel delivery relative to boost and/or RPM as is done with variable fuel pressure regulators and auxiliary injection systems is that it leaves out the critical element of air flow metering. But as noted by others, the stock ECU (especially on early models) can't be modified to handle forced induction, which is why David and some others have spent $3k+ on complete engine management units to replace many of the ECUs functions. But besides the cost, they are anything but simple to dial in correctly.

I’d certainly like a better solution than the variable FPR and Greddy Rebic IV I’m currently using.

As for how some other cars are done, besides being simpler to change the ECU, they rarely start with the compression or timing of the NSX.



[This message has been edited by sjs (edited 04 October 2001).]
 
I think this is a match. man he's done some cool stuff!
Gerry Johnson

Cool Newbie


Posts: 10
From: Modesto,CA. USA
Registered: Aug 2001
posted August 12, 2001 08:20 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am the owner of a 1992 black NSX.Last year I totaly rebuilt the engine using all the best parts available, I ported the heads and raised the boost up to 13lbs. It has a Haltech F9-8 Fuel Management System,JE 9.5:1 Pistons,Comptech block gaurds,DC Sports ceramic coated headers,HKS blow off valve,Nippondenso race pump,RC 550cc injectors,NSX-R ring and pinion,NSX-R close ratio transmission,Clutch Masters stage 3 clutch,Axis Metal Master brake pads,DC carbon fiber strut brace,Goodridge steel braided lines,Ground Control adjustable suspension,Koni adjustable shock absorbers,Pirelli P-Zero Tires 225/35-ZR18 (front) Pirelli P-Zero 275/30-ZR19 (rear),Power Stop cross drilled rotors,Suspension Techniques anti-sway bars,Work Equip Wheels 18"x8"(front)19"x10"(rear),Custom sealed beam headlights, Wings West body kit,Sparco seats, Momo Formula one carbon fiber steering wheel and shift knob,Mugen steering wheel adapter,Dali Racing raison hood,Custom roof scoop into a custom lexan rear hatch forcing the incoming air threw an Apex inter-cooler.The car dyno'd at 470 HP at the wheels, and has not been fine tuned yet.This is the most modified NSX that is street driven daily that I know about, if any one knows of any highly modified NSX's let me know. Thank you, Gerry. (NSXPOWR)
tuff.
 
Originally posted by ilya:
Hi John. You make it sound like he actually checks all his voice mails.
smile.gif

You were lucky you could leave one at all since the box is usually maxed out.
biggrin.gif



I talked to him about this today and he said he wanted to go to the next meeting. He said he could bring the NSX w/ the setup. I didn't mention anything to you yet because there was talk about the Vortech guys coming first, so I figured he would do the next one. I think Larry knows something about that as well as he did the first one-off w/ a Vortech some time ago. It was at his shop at a meeting a few months ago when he did the SC discussion. The piping was all chrome and it looked pretty cool.


Anyway, keep me updated on who the guest will be for that meeting. If you want me to confirm with Larry for our next meeting, I can do that as he is willing to come.


Ilya and Family,
I spoke with Larry @ NSX Modified today with some good news! Larry and the modified NSX will be attending the CalCoastalNSX meeting in Calabasas on Oct. 18th. at 7:30p.m.!!!!
The details I can give(and there are many) are: Test drives will be available, the car has already been driven modified for 3 years and you can get one too!(the turbo that is)
Our meeting on Nov. 15th will also have a special guest speaker if all the plans workout.
Here's the club info.
Post message: [email protected]
Subscribe: [email protected]
Unsubscribe:
[email protected]
List owner: [email protected]

Check out the homepage for more info: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CalCoastalNSX





[This message has been edited by ANYTIME (edited 06 October 2001).]
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by jsottile:
I wish there was a way you guys could document or tape these meetings, etc. It is such a disadvantage being on the East Coast and missing out on all these events.

As of the Oct. 18th meeting, there will be minutes taken(maybe audio later,maybe not).
A website for our group is something I'm thinking about, and this would be a good place to post the minutes and pics. Need to find an inexpensive host since I would be paying out of pocket for this.
Click to expand...
 
???? Hey John, I'm confused. I though he was bringing the new turbocharged car. Is he bringing George's Vortec instead??? You mentioned supercharger.
 
That is amazing!!!!! What a clean install using Vortech's water cooler. Amazing, I wish the new Vortech kit would mount the same way with the same piping. Amazing.
 
OK... NOW I"M TOTALLY OFF MY ROCKER!!!!!!!
Yes, that looks just like his Vortec except for one thing.
When I saw his car about 6 months ago at NSX Modified, IT WAS WHITE!
This truly is the twilight zone.
biggrin.gif
 

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