Getting the oil changed

[Heavymetals]

I am getting next year in order and called to make an appointment to get the oil and brake fluid changed.

I figured that the car is due since I have not done an oil change since I got the car 5 years ago.

It has less than 4k miles, as it appears I would rather own it than drive it. lol

About $800.00

 

[esqu1re]

I think most of the cost is the brake fluid change. Still, that's very pricey!

 

[NbyNW]

I paid $329 for the brake fluid flush and $178 for the twin motor oil change back in July 2020. Oil change last month was $380.

 

[drmanny3]

Several years ago I paid $150 for the flush. The oil change was around $400. I cannot believe you waited 5 years before changing the oil. I recall the manual says x miles or yearly? That is an expensive engine to gamble with? The on-board maintenance system is not that sophisticated to differentiate between miles driven, temperatures, oil degradation, moisture levels, acidic levels, viscosity, etcetera. I am not saying you damaged your engine, but I would be hesitant in buying your car vs a car with more frequent oil changes. It might be worth having the oil analyzed when you do change it. There is a reasonably priced service. That way you will have evidence all is well?

 

[drmanny3]

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Here is the Acura NSX PDF on the Maintenance Minder. Acura requires that the oil be changed at least yearly regardless of what the Maintenance Minder says about service level of the oil.

 

[Heavymetals]

I am gonna have the filter cut open and look for crap.
If we were still using organic based oils I would change more frequently, or if I beat on the car which I don't.
The synthetics are great.
I read an article on Mobile 1 a long time ago and it was speculated that it was good for over 50k miles.
If anyone is gonna base a purchase on the # of oil changes, good luck.

 

[drmanny3]

Sorry, I did not mean to imply your car is damaged in any way. Just saying that Acura requires the oil changed every year. Checking the oil filter won't tell you much as I am sure the oil is fairly clean looking. You might want to get the oil analyzed. Here is a report I got from my car back a few years. It is pretty reasonably priced. The dealership screwed up and did not get a big enough sample of oil during my yearly change. I think back then I had around 5900 miles on the car. The last oil change done was around 4071 approximately one year previous.
Keep in mind that starting your engine and not driving it so that the oil hits operational temperature means that moisture is not removed from the oil. The moisture (H20) mixes with other ingredients to form various acids. They can eat away at the metal. So, you are better off starting the car and driving it hard enough to get it at temperature for water and oil. That is why short distance driving and idling is the hardest on engines versus driving distance on the freeway.

 

[Heavymetals]

ACURA doesn't "require" a yearly oil change, it is a recommendation.

If it was a requirement, the warranty would reflect it.

 

[drmanny3]

Here is what it says in my Acura Warranty book under what is "my responsibility". Also I enclosed the Official Acura Maintenance Minder document above #5. It does in fact require that you change the oil yearly. So yes the warranty in fact tells you what you need to do. Obviously, if there is no issue then there is no problem. I am just sharing with you and others what is specifically called out for oil changes. You can do whatever you choose to do as it is your car. I think where Acura screwed up is that they did not print the Maintenance Document in the Owners Manual. What they do print with respect to the Maintenace Minder is the following in very small print: "If a message SERVICE does not appear more than 12 months after the display is reset, change the engine oil every year."

This is from the Warranty Book for a 2017 NSX:
By keeping your Acura in top condition, you will be rewarded with years of trouble-free service at the lowest operating cost. The keys to keeping your Acura in top condition are proper operation and regular maintenance. Proper Operation Your Acura is designed for use as a passenger vehicle. You should use it on designated public roads and highways. These are some things you should do to take care of your Acura: • Avoid exceeding your vehicle's load limit. This puts excess strain on the engine, brakes, and several other systems in your vehicle. Refer to the owner's manual to find the location of the load limit label on your vehicle. • Operate your Acura within the legal speed limit. • Drive your Acura regularly over a distance of several miles. Like a person, a vehicle functions better with regular exercise. • Always use an unleaded gasoline of the proper octane number (antiknock index) that does not have any unapproved additives in it. See your owner's manual for more information. Maintenance You should check the engine oil and radiator coolant levels each time you fill the gas tank. This protects the vital systems of your Acura and may help you discover potential problems. Always maintain your 2017 Acura as suggested by the vehicle's Maintenance Minder™. The services suggested by the Maintenance Minder™ should never be exceeded. They are essential to trouble-free operation. Parts that fail because they did not get proper, timely maintenance are not covered by warranty. However, a warranty claim will not be denied if a part fails due to a defect in material or workmanship for reasons unrelated to the improper maintenance or operation.

I am just trying to provide clarity, don't shoot the messenger.

 

[Heavymetals]

Thanks for the info. As I said, a recommendation.

However, a warranty claim will not be denied if a part fails due to a defect in material or workmanship for reasons unrelated to the improper maintenance or operation.

 

[DJ Iceman]

I asked the NSX master tech at my dealership if I should come in for my first oil change at the one-year mark even though the maintenance minder still had 40% oil life on it. His response was just to follow the maintenance minder unless I liked throwing money away.

 

[docjohn]

we all have opinions....lol......

I will likely follow the computer but will do a oil change at least every 2 years...

 

[Heavymetals]

I asked the NSX master tech at my dealership if I should come in for my first oil change at the one-year mark even though the maintenance minder still had 40% oil life on it. His response was just to follow the maintenance minder unless I liked throwing money away.

Same thing I was told.

I think the oil is distilled from unicorn piss.

 

[drmanny3]

Well keep in mind the engine in this vehicle is special. To not treat it the same way is really a shame. Yes, the maintenance minder is a nice tool that is built into the car. If you read the Acura sheet concerning the maintenance minder you will clearly see where they are coming from. Add to that in the owner's manual under the section of the maintenance minder is that small foot note #1 that essentially says what the sheet says. Every 12 months you should change the oil. The less you drive the more likely the oil is starting to change in chemistry. I am a chemist by schooling. I worked professionally for the Ethyl Corporation way back when I was still young. Now having said all that, is there an issue with our engines. As far as I know there is nothing that is wearing in an extraordinary way.

If the intent is to keep this car for a long time (many years) then in my mind taking it in to the dealer for a yearly oil change is cheap and good insurance. Good Will has saved me many dollars in the past with several auto manufacturers, Acura being one. To be sure the easiest thing to do is send an oil sample out for analysis. This way you can base line your oil chemistry and see if anything is amiss. It is not about money so much as being technical astute and having a proactive mindset.

Our drivetrain is warranted for 6 years/70,000 miles. I suspect that Acura will fix most cars even if they were not taken care of in an ideal manner.

 

[Heavymetals]

I suggest you learn the difference between a recommendation and a mandate.

 

[acuhon]

Some people say that the engine has a special additive from PMC and should not be changed for 5,000 miles.
Now the question is what is better? Change the oil after one year or wait? If the car is driven in spirited manner every few months, than I don't see a problem to leave the oil there for more than one year. Five years is to long for oil change.

 

[drmanny3]

I suggest you learn the difference between a recommendation and a mandate.

WTF, so what you’re saying is everything concerning maintenance on the NSX is a recommendation? Are consequences associated with recommendations? And, by the way do you even understand what the word mandate means? I never used that word in this thread. It is typically associated with government requirements.

 

[docjohn]

Lol I miss Ken and his spirited oil debates...
I would say that the engine is tested and balanced, and being a Cosworth long block built by our domestic finest. However Cosworth et al has more reason to be on their knees in supplication to Honda for a complete extreme makeover of their aging and "quaint" facility just for the NC1 motors.

 

[Heavymetals]

WTF, so what you’re saying is everything concerning maintenance on the NSX is a recommendation? Are consequences associated with recommendations? And, by the way do you even understand what the word mandate means? I never used that word in this thread. It is typically associated with government requirements.

I suggest you admit you were wrong about changing the oil being a requirement and move on. I have.

Happy New Year!

 

[Honcho]

I think both you guys are right. On the one hand, if Acura themselves, who designed and tested the engine, is telling you to just follow the minder when you go in for service, I'd be confident that they would stand behind that advice in the event of an issue. Because I am a lawyer, I'd probably have them add that note to the service paperwork just to be safe, e.g., "Customer asked about oil change. Checked minder and oil life is at 50%. Advised to follow minder and change when prompted, regardless of oil age." This will also cover the dealer's butt if they have to go to corporate to authorize a repair.

On the other hand, most manufacturers recommend changing the oil at least annually because of the nature of the car's ICE engine. Because the ICE engine in the NC1 is an open system, moisture can freely enter the engine and oil through the open valves in the heads. If the car is not driven enough, this moisture can corrode the iron components inside the engine. Kaz's blog is full of NSX engines that are rusted out from the inside due to this issue. Just driving the car on the highway for 20 miles or so will "cook" out the water from the oil, though. I suspect this is why Acura dropped the footnote that Manny mentions. Modern full synth oils are incredibly stable from a chemistry standpoint, which is why I think this is moisture-related- it's not like the oil suddenly turns to sludge at 13 months.

So, it's Acura who is speaking out of two sides of their mouth. They tell you to just follow the minder, and the dealer master tech says the same thing, but then they drop a tiny footnote that says well actually change the oil every 12 months. It's bad and confusing advice for the customer. If you just follow the minder, I'd make sure to get the oil to running temp at least once per month, however.

It might be worth a call to the NSX tech line to get the official word, though. We can post the result here for other owners to reference.

 

[DJ Iceman]

Because I am a lawyer, I'd probably have them add that note to the service paperwork just to be safe, e.g., "Customer asked about oil change. Checked minder and oil life is at 50%. Advised to follow minder and change when prompted, regardless of oil age." This will also cover the dealer's butt if they have to go to corporate to authorize a repair.
...
So, it's Acura who is speaking out of two sides of their mouth. They tell you to just follow the minder, and the dealer master tech says the same thing, but then they drop a tiny footnote that says well actually change the oil every 12 months. It's bad and confusing advice for the customer. If you just follow the minder, I'd make sure to get the oil to running temp at least once per month, however.

I completely agree and almost asked my service department to make a notation like that to cover things, but decided against it. Hopefully I won't regret that choice years from now.

And you're also right about Acura speaking out of both sides of their mouth, but since you're a lawyer you probably understand why they have to. It's like the use of child booster seats in the NSX--there are all kinds of warnings not to do it, then a whole section of the manual dedicated to how to do it. I guess they've legally covered all the angles.

 

[drmanny3]

I just realized the the Acura maintenance minder document listed in post 5 above is for the Canadian market. Honcho, and DJ, I think you would agree that for the Canadian marketplace Acura requires an oil change at least yearly. That is interesting.

 

[Heavymetals]

WTF, so what you’re saying is everything concerning maintenance on the NSX is a recommendation? Are consequences associated with recommendations? And, by the way do you even understand what the word mandate means? I never used that word in this thread. It is typically associated with government requirements.

Start acting like a moderator and less like the forum bully. God save us from the grammar police. Indeed.

 

[docjohn]

You two hug it out...grudges are the Bain of forums...

 

[esqu1re]

Maybe this thread has run its course.