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HD TV > 1080p?

+1000000000000

home theatre PERHAPS it maybe useful, but we're talking about watching 150" screens imo at like 10 ft away.

4k acquisition is AMAZING yielding tons of creative/technical advantages in post production; but 4k delivery for the avg home/house imo is really really silly.

nsxtasy said:
You don't need anything more than 1080p for most home viewing, according to this article.
Click to expand...

SFNSXguy said:
This is correct.

4K is for movie theaters. If it ever does make it to homes it will be 20 years from now -- if ever (for true 4K software).
Click to expand...
 
The bigger issue IMO is what your provider is actually giving you. Much of what is supplied by cable and sat looks nowhere near pristine quality. In fact i believe it has gotten worse since HD was released. I don't know if it's as simple as "bandwidth", but i do know that they monitor complaints and when they get to a certain level, they do "something" and then all is well, for awhile anyway. So they are skirting the minimum threshold levels of some parameter. Likely that causes pic degradation. I would be very happy with a pristine 720p or 1080i on 70" and under. And of course a working whole house DVR for less than and NSX payment is now of paramount need.
 
TANTO said:
The bigger issue IMO is what your provider is actually giving you. Much of what is supplied by cable and sat looks nowhere near pristine quality. In fact i believe it has gotten worse since HD was released. I don't know if it's as simple as "bandwidth", but i do know that they monitor complaints and when they get to a certain level, they do "something" and then all is well, for awhile anyway. So they are skirting the minimum threshold levels of some parameter. Likely that causes pic degradation. I would be very happy with a pristine 720p or 1080i on 70" and under. And of course a working whole house DVR for less than and NSX payment is now of paramount need.
Click to expand...

Yeah it's all about bandwidth. Video is encoded in a lossy format, and the "lossier" it is, the less bandwidth it takes. Today video is typically encoded with the h.264 standard, but final draft of h.265 should happen at the end of this year. The new standard gives you roughly the same picture quality at about half the number of bits.
 
190640d1245215603-does-anyone-wax-their-helmet-fuzz.jpg
 
My brother have seen it, he told me the resolution is amazing, but the problem of compression still exists, like DVD and Bluray when viewed up and close.
 
BD said:
My brother have seen it, he told me the resolution is amazing, but the problem of compression still exists, like DVD and Bluray when viewed up and close.
Click to expand...

Well it depends on the bitrate/quantization of the source material. You're driving 4x the pixels, ie 4x the information. If you're not increasing your bitrate to take that into account you're going to see all kinds of artifacting up close. BD is actually pretty good because they can use fairly high bitrates (20+Mb/s is common). HD content streamed from your cable provider or online services (2-5Mb/s typically) on the other hand look like crap on 1080p, let alone 4k.

Once we have next-gen standards like h.265, the quality will go up tremendously since content creators can cram a lot more information into the same number of bits (ie less lossiness)

As I said before, this is just the start. You're going to see a lot more at CES 2013, and it's going to be a veritable flood at CES 2014 as the new game consoles become available.
 
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Arshad said:
Well it depends on the bitrate/quantization of the source material. You're driving 4x the pixels, ie 4x the information. If you're not increasing your bitrate to take that into account you're going to see all kinds of artifacting up close. BD is actually pretty good because they can use fairly high bitrates (20+Mb/s is common). HD content streamed from your cable provider or online services (2-5Mb/s typically) on the other hand look like crap on 1080p, let alone 4k.

Once we have next-gen standards like h.265, the quality will go up tremendously since content creators can cram a lot more information into the same number of bits (ie less lossiness)

As I said before, this is just the start. You're going to see a lot more at CES 2013, and it's going to be a veritable flood at CES 2014 as the new game consoles become available.
Click to expand...

I worry about not having enough power to push 4k games. I wonder if they will just stick to 1080p for actual gaming.
 
NetViper said:
I worry about not having enough power to push 4k games. I wonder if they will just stick to 1080p for actual gaming.
Click to expand...

One way to consider what might be possible in consoles coming out more than a year away is to look at what's possible on high end desktop GPU's today. For example, with AMD GPU's, you can use Eyefinity to simulate a quad-HD setup. It may not be on a single panel, but you're still driving the same number of pixels from a single GPU.

So pushing 4k @ 60Hz is certainly possible, although developers will be able to layer on more realism with more advanced shaders if they render at 1080p and then upscale to 4k.
 
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Arshad said:
One way to consider what might be possible in consoles coming out more than a year away is to look at what's possible on high end desktop GPU's today. For example, with AMD GPU's, you can use Eyefinity to simulate a quad-HD setup. It may not be on a single panel, but you're still driving the same number of pixels from a single GPU.

So pushing 4k @ 60Hz is certainly possible, although developers will be able to layer on more realism with more advanced shaders if they render at 1080p and then upscale to 4k.
Click to expand...

Games like halo aren't even 1080p now, so I would rather see all the shaders etc vs higher res. I can't wait for forza 5 :)
 
NetViper said:
Games like halo aren't even 1080p now, so I would rather see all the shaders etc vs higher res. I can't wait for forza 5 :)
Click to expand...

Remember, what's in PS3 and Xbox360 are insanely old, so it's really not surprising that they are pushing their limits trying to hit 1080p.

I agree with you -- Forza 5 is going to be awesome! :)
 
interresting you experts talk about pixels....what about voxels?:tongue:
 
I'm not a fan of LED/LCD TVs. The bit rate from the source, refresh rate of the TV somehow just ruin the viewing pleasure.

I pulled out of my old LD player and play it on my old 35in Mitsubishi and the picture looked much more natural, granted the detail is not as nice, but I still feel digital has a way to go.

What I really want to see is the new OLED TV since all the reviews have been extremely positive with claims of matching CRT quality.
 
docjohn said:
interresting you experts talk about pixels....what about voxels?:tongue:
Click to expand...

I guess your interest in voxels is more from the medical imaging side? There are certain rendering applications (like medical imaging, or some types of terrain mapping) where voxels make a lot of sense, but for typical 3D render situations you have large regions of similar data so you can more efficiently render using polygons and textures.

The thing is that modern GPU's are extremely flexible, and are no longer used strictly for graphics. They are also incredibly powerful compute engines where you are manipulating single elements of data (such as voxels). Our latest high end GPU can perform 4 trillion floating point operations in one second with 288GB/s of memory bandwidth! In fact, they are so powerful that the next-gen supercomputers are starting to augment their processing with GPU's for much higher performance/watt/mm^2.

Old-school voxel imagers were slow and the captured data was shown in very chunky, low resolution so you could view it in semi-realtime. If you used the latest high end GPU's, you could have complex voxels with many attributes, and large dimensions and still view it in realtime. It's staggering how fast technology on this front is moving -- a few years ago, it was literally an order of magnitude slower!
 
BD said:
I'm not a fan of LED/LCD TVs. The bit rate from the source, refresh rate of the TV somehow just ruin the viewing pleasure.
Click to expand...

The one thing that really ruins it for me is the temporal up-sampling/motion-interpolation on 120 or 240hz TV's. It gives this jarring video-like look to film and completely ruins the experience. Most TV's have a way to turn this off when viewing film content. Try it.. see if it improves your viewing pleasure.
 
other then for sports imo upsampling/smooth motion is completely useless imho.

Arshad said:
The one thing that really ruins it for me is the temporal up-sampling/motion-interpolation on 120 or 240hz TV's. It gives this jarring video-like look to film and completely ruins the experience. Most TV's have a way to turn this off when viewing film content. Try it.. see if it improves your viewing pleasure.
Click to expand...
 
Consumer Electronics Industry Announces Ultra High-Definition

Consumer Electronics Industry Announces Ultra High-Definition

The next generation of so-called “4K” high-definition display technology for the home – giant-screen TVs with more than eight million pixels of resolution, four times the resolution of today’s high-definition televisions – will be called “Ultra High-Definition” or “Ultra HD,” connoting its superiority over conventional HDTV, according to the Consumer Electronics Association (CEA)®.
 
Re: Consumer Electronics Industry Announces Ultra High-Definition

flaminio said:
The next generation of so-called “4K” high-definition display technology for the home – giant-screen TVs with more than eight million pixels of resolution, four times the resolution of today’s high-definition televisions – will be called “Ultra High-Definition” or “Ultra HD,” connoting its superiority over conventional HDTV, according to the Consumer Electronics Association (CEA)®.
Click to expand...

We've got some of these at work. Pretty bad-ass!
 

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