Horrible f***ing news for me....

[Brian2by2]

First off: Please please please don't flame me or "rub this in my face" because I'm distraught right now....

well, as some of you know, my car is in the shop for a small accident.

Insurance adjuster was over inspecting the car and asking all sorts of weird questions. I said: "Whats with all the weird questions??" The adjuster was like: "wow, you have no clue do you? This car was rolled in 1995, the title was thrown out..." and all this other stuff...

I was shocked. I knew that it had a new front bumper and a new door...that wasn't a big deal to me. It didn't matter that much. But I was never told it was a ROLLED veichle and being so young, I was dumb and naive and most importantly anxious. I'm not trying to make you guys feel bad for me or nothing because it was all my fault, however, I believe I am going to sue the guy for the value of my car for a few reasons: 1) the only time he made me aware of the car's history was by telling me that a few parts were replaced and by showing me a carfax that was very misleading (altered???). 2) There is supposed to be a sticker on the door jam stating that it was a rebuilt car. That's the LAW. The sticker is not there and never has been. So now, what turns out to be a small accident is going to blow up into some huge drama.

I love the car, it runs/works/drives fine! no problems, just a few DOWN TO THE GRIT details that only an expert would recognize (guess not...my mechanic didn't!!)...so i don't know what to do!!

Any advice? Keep the car and just get it repaired and have it 2-5 weeks or fight it and possibly lose some $$, possibly gain some $$, but be without a car for months on end, maybe a year or two!?!

I'm very stupid. I already admit that. No reason to rub that in. I just need some help from the caring people of nsxprime.

 

[Edwardo]

Brian,

I am sorry to hear that news. One question, does your car have a clean title?

 

[DocL]

Alright, no flames from me!

What I would do is just get the car repaired. If the insurance company is going to cover the costs, then use them and have the latest damage repaired. At this point, all you want is a car that is driveable. Since the car will be difficult for you to sell, you may want to add some aftermarket parts if you plan on keeping it for a while. This way, you'll get some use out of it and not lose to much money right now.

Second, I don't think you have any recourse on suing anyone. You bought a used car "as is." Didn't you buy this car off a movie set? If you are to hold anyone responsible, it woul be the person who inspected the car and said that it was clean. But then again, you ultimately made the decision to buy the car. The carfax report doesn't mean anything at this point. You own the car already, and the amount it will cost you with an attorney will not be worth it. In the end the car will still have a bad title, and now the carfax will show another accident on it if the insurance reports it.

This was an expensive lesson for you, and no one likes to hear bad news in the NSX community. BTW, was the VIN listed here on the totaled/salvage page?

-Good Luck.

 

[Aiken Drum]

I'm sure you realize this now, but never, ever trust any paperwork a seller gives you, just like you'd get an independent appraisal for jewelry rather than take the jeweler's word on its worth.

In fact, if a seller SHOWS you a CarFax, it's probably a very good indicator that there's something wrong, because any honorable seller is going to assume you will do the CarFax yourself and get the results you expect.

I'd even be leery of someone taking me inside their house, typing "www.carfax.com" into their browser, and showing me the online result, because it's damned easy to edit your hosts file to point at a hacked mirror of the carfax server.

Buyer beware...

 

[RSO 34]

BTW, was the VIN listed here on the totaled/salvage page?

If the VIN was not listed here before, it would be a stand-up thing for you to provide it to Prime now to put people on notice in the future in the event it changes hands again.

 

[kld12]

Yo Brian,

Sorry to hear what happened to you. It seems like when something goes wrong to nsxers, things just get worse and worse. (ie NetViper's incident)

I agree with Dr. Lane in that hiring an attorney would be a costly move. Have your Nsx repaired and drive the hell out of it and enjoy it again.

 

[NSXGeek!]

Bummer to hear. I've seen quite a few NSXes with significant frame damage including front and rear frame rails cut off and replaced, and the owners don't even know. Hopefully this doesn't affect your claim. Good luck.

 

[John]

Hi Brian

I had a similar experience with my `91 here in Auckland, New Zealand where NSXs are rare on the ground. The dealer realised that he had been taken-in and offered me the option of `repair to my satisfaction or money back`. I chose repair..where was I going to find another car and at least I would know how well the work done was as it was being overseen by Honda.
My car was off the road for 6months.
The major work was carried out by the Audi workshop who had the most expertise in alloy chassis and frame alignment.
I would strongly advise that you have your car set-up checked out on a chassis alignment table, the few millimetres mine was out necessitated major parts replacement.
On completion I had it further inspected by a race shop specialist who`s words were like nectar to my ear...`would you accept perfect John..` I am very pleased to have made the decision to go with the repair, the car is a joy to drive.
Oh! Yes the dealer paid every dollar.

 

[Brian2by2]

No the car was not bought off a movie set...if in anyway my mechanic can find that my accident may have been related to the salvaged history, then my insurance will cover it. if not, then im forced to get an attorney.

I was told that I could sue for damages on top of hte car...

The reason to sue is the missing sticker and not being made aware of the history. It is against hte law not to make hte buyer aware and it is against the law NOT to have that sticker on a rebuilt car. Mine does not have the sticker.

I do just want it fixed so i can drive it and enjoy it...resale? well, i don't really plan on reselling it, and the frame is INTACT and ok! It just has some different colored pieces and the history. GRRR

 

[MiamieNeSeX]

Sorry to hear about the accident, hope it all works out

 

[Yellow Rose]

2 x 2........you say "I love the car, it runs/works/drives fine! no problems", and this is an important premise to emphasize.

Prior to your car currently in the shop to repair a small boo boo, did you still feel the same way about your car, as you state in the above paragraph? If the answer is "yes" and the repairs are to your satisfaction, then keep the car. If the damaged body panels were replaced (every NSX body panel is bolted on, except the coupe's roof, which is welded to the top of the pillars), then who cares if an original fender was mangled, when it is no longer on your car? As long as the car is structurally sound, there is no reason not to keep it. The fact that the repair was concealed from you is illegal, but that in and of itself in no way compromises the integrity of the car.

 

[KGP]

I'm very stupid. I just need some help from the caring people of nsxprime.

Nope, your not stupid...just young and full of piss and vinegar. Just like we all were at your age.

Help here is a constant. It's whether we actually listen to it.

Wait a day or two, allowing time to compose yourself. Gather all your documents on the car from the sale, etc. Can you get confimration from the adjuster that the car title was totaled and washed? Can you get a copy of the particular state statute you cite? From then on, if it were me, everything would be documented. Nothing would be done over then phone other than to make initial contact to tell him what was comming, or to get address, etc.

Above is assuming you want to go after the dude. I think Andy presents some great advice as well.

 

[RyRy210]

no problems, just a few DOWN TO THE GRIT details that only an expert would recognize (guess not...my mechanic didn't!!)...so i don't know what to do!!

Something similar happened to me.

I was the 3rd owner of a 1995 NSX that apparently had frame damage. The title was clean, the carfax was clean, the owner that I bough it from said it was clean, and the dealer which checked the car told me that it was perfect.

Now, it is my honest opinion that the owner before me really did not know about the damage. Going after him is not gonna do any good. I'm thinking this was done by the original owner of the car. You mentioned you had the mechanic check it out. I think he's the 1st person you should question.

I traded my '95 for an '01 and when the dealer inspected the car they showed me the damage. They had another NSX in service and hoisted both cars side by side to show me exactly where the damage was. The tech who worked on my car was also an NSX owner himself. I was pretty pissed to know that the 1st dealer gave my car a 2 thumbs up, but on the other hand it made me feel real good about my '01 purchase.

Ryan

 

[Brian2by2]

well now after being pointed out some of the flaws, it makes me feel a little differently about the car. Nothing anyone else would find but stuff i know is there.

Pursuing legal matters probably won't help because I was naive and paid a certain amount of money in cash to avoid taxes (as i was instructed by the dealer). So my sticker on the car is $15000 and I paid quite a bit more than that. Not to mention lawyer fees and all that.

I don't know how it would be possible to recupperate the actual amount spent in order to allow me to get another car or just be reimbursed for what i spent...i don't know how that works. Anyone have any advice in that area?

 

[Lud]

Brian - Very sorry to hear the news, that stinks!

I am confused though - didn't you post here, in a thread that has since been deleted, that the car had a salvage title shortly after you purchased it?

How did the adjuster know it was previously rolled? Did he handle the insurance claim after that accident too?

As for legal action, this is obviously a complex situation. I really think you need to talk to an attorney in your state to figure out where you stand and what your options are. A brief initial consultation with an attorney to see if he feels legal action is worth while given all the facts shouldn't cost very much. Bring any/all documentation.

It's also entirely possible Carfax does not report the car as salvage. What is the VIN? I'm sure someone can run it for you to verify if Carfax shows it as clean or not. Plenty of cars with salvage titles do not show up as salvage in Carfax's database. If you bought a Carfax report and the car was "guaranteed clean" and you can prove otherwise, you should also be eligible to collect on their $5,000 guarantee.

If the Carfax is showing the car as clean, it's conceivable the seller didn't know any more about it, the same way you didn't know anything else about the car until now.

I'd also suggest having a body shop check the car for any possible structural problems, even though it feels tight when you drive it. There are lots of things that can be wrong that you won't feel by driving the car. You don't want to have to worry about being injured in an accident due to a structural problem with the car.

 

[nsx_parts]

Did the prior owner have knowledge of the wash? How long did he own it? Was it in his possesion in 1995?

How much did you pay? Is the title clean? DId you have a Carfax Guarantee?

You can do well in court vs. a dealer if you have all the fact. If you can prove he misrepresented the car you will do well in many states. If you plan to do this, consult with an attorney, bring him ALL the facts, in writing.

Take a deep breath, it will work out. In the end you are still driving a NSX!

 

[Lud]

Several people have mentioned that their mechanic's pre-purchase inspections that failed to note a crash repair history.

Mechanics, even good ones, are often not very good at spotting subtle signs of body work. It's not what they do.

For the same reason you don't take you car to a body shop to get the timing belt changed, you shouldn't rely on a mechanic to inspect for prior body damage.

 

[TigerNSX]

We may want to advise potential owners to have the car checked by the reputable NSX mechanic as well as by the reputable body shop.

I hope that everything works out.

 

[Brian2by2]

Ok, so far, it does say on a "bill of sale" that was typed by the dealer that it was sold "As-Is; salvage history" But RIGHT after that it has a whole bunch of mumbo jumbo about car histories and all that (irrelevant to my car).

My claim rep says that its very misleading and would not hold water if i had a half way decent attorney. The Claim rep said that because that sticker was removed, my mechanic was unaware of the rebuilt title. According to state law it is a serious violation to remove that sticker. That alone should be sufficient enough to pursue legal action according to my insurance company and dealership where i'm having the work done.

I don't know what you all think of that...I do have 2 witnesses that were there at the signing when he failed to make me aware a severe rollover collision but rather told me two panels were replaced due to a minor collision.

 

[PKim]

horrible news

Brian,
I would definately get legal council on this matter. If you were dealing with a private individual it would probably be difficult to prove wrong doing, but since you dealt with a dealer, I would say that you have a better chance of persuing with misrepresentation. A talk with a lawyer about this shouldn't cost too much and you would be able to get answers that could help your cause.

Sorry you have to go through this, like everyone said your not stupid, just young and naive. This experience will make you wiser.

Paul

 

[Brian2by2]

Well i just spoke with my parents and I think i've decided that, from what i know of legal matters, i am going to pursue legal actions and sue for teh difference in the what I paid for teh car versus how much a salvaged NSX sells for. Salvaged NSX's go for 15-18,000 right? (91, blk/blk, NOT original paint OR color, 47,000 miles, scraped rims)

That is my opinion w/o legal advice. An attorney may have a different idea...won't know till tomorrow.

 

[Roadrunner]

Also remember Fl. is one of those states that allows cars to get
title washed.
It sucks knowing that your state would rather get the sales tax from all the cars sold here then be honest and not permit all these cars from being brought in and "cleaned up".
Lud, remember the Yellow NSX from Ca. that was rolled and was
found in Fl. for sale with a cleaned title?
Just another reason to love politicians.):
Orlando is one of the largest wholesale markets in the U.S.

 

[Brian2by2]

ya my car has a clean title...

 

[PHOEN$X]

Brian, sorry to hear of this turn of events and best of luck with the legal pursuit. However, of paramount concern at this time is the safety issue. Are you certain the frame and structure have been repaired to factory spec? If not, you should get the vehicle reinspected by a knowledgeable tech/body shop ASAP. It would be tragic indeed if your accident had been more severe and you sustained permanent injuries as a result of subpar repairs. I guess in a way you might count your blessings, since you found all this out before getting into a major crash. At least now you have the opportunity to thorougly check the car over for other safety issues. Good luck.

 

[dougjgreen]

Brian, it's my view that a salvaged '91 NSX that was running will probably be worth around $8K less than a same-mileage car that had not been running. But it depends on what damage the car had which could be documented.

This is based on my experience with my 1st NSX. The 1st NSX that I had gotten was a '95 that I bought in '99 with salvage title and 21K miles on it. The car itself had undergone only a slight bit of cosmetic damage, but it was salvaged in a theft recovery, where the insurance paid out, which in California means that it is legally required to be a salvage title. I paid $44K for it, at the time, comparable '95s with clean title were selling for around $52-56K. Alot of people claimed that I over paid for it, when I had to collect on my insurance 3 years later, because I totaled the car in a rollover, I got fair value for it. At that point, I had driven the car for 3 years, and put 30K miles on it. Initially, the insurer tried to tell me that the car was worth only $26K because it was salvaged, but I was able to show them comparable cars that were on the market with salvage titel. After looking at my evidence, they ended up giving me $34.3K on the totaled car, and they told me that if it had clean title, it would have been $47K. So, I would estimate that the relative value of a salvaged '91 vs a clean '91 is around the same proportion, which comes out to around 72% of the value if the car had the same mileage but a clean history. So if a clean car were worth $28K, a fully working salvage car might be worth $20K. Of course, if the damage history of your car were substantial, rather than minor which was the case with my old one, the difference could be noticeably more than $8K