If only HONDA could use this engine....

[liftcontrol]

I wish HONDA could have used the HSV-010 GT's 3.4li naturally aspirated V8;
that beast is used in the Japanese super GT championships as a replacement for the previous NSX.

Lexus LFA is using an absolutely wonderful v-10 and it would be only proper for Honda to answer with at least the menacing V8 from the HSV.

It is a small, light and very powerful engine and would serve the NSX 2.0 very well;


General specifications
Country of origin Japan
Numbers built N/A
Introduced 2010

Engine
Configuration HR10EG 90º V8
Location Front, longitudinally mounted
Weight 120 kilo / 264.6 lbs
Construction aluminium block and head
Displacement 3.397 liter / 207.3 cu in
Bore / Stroke 93.0 mm (3.7 in) / 62.5 mm (2.5 in)
Valvetrain 4 valves / cylinder, DOHC
Fuel feed Fuel Injection
Aspiration Naturally Aspirated
Power 500 bhp / 373 KW
Torque 392 Nm / 289 ft lbs
BHP/Liter 147 bhp / liter

Drivetrain
Suspension (fr/r) double wishbones, torsion bars
Steering rack-and-pinion, electric power assistance
Brakes ventilated discs, all-round
Gearbox 6 speed Sequential
Drive Rear wheel drive

Dimensions
Weight 1100 kilo / 2425.1 lbs
Length / Width / Height 4675 mm (184.1 in) / 2000 mm (78.7 in) / N/A
Wheelbase / Track (fr/r) 2700 mm (106.3 in) / N/A / N/A

Performance figures
Power to weight 0.45 bhp / kg

Resources
Related cars Acura Advanced Sports Car Concept
Acura ARX-01a
Acura ARX-01b

 

[Ric]

With their BS earthdream philosophy, it won't happen.

 

[liftnot]

+1. its a flat crank and will make a beautiful sound even with mufflers.:biggrin:
Some one must had too much sake to paint the F1 car like this to make a statement but looking back, this is the path Honda has gone in the last 5 yrs.:frown:

 

[liftcontrol]

This naturally aspirated beauty, an all aluminum, 90 deg. V8 design, weighs only 265 lbs!!

It is a race tested engine....Honda ought to consider using it, with all the modifications that it may need to be a reliable every day engine.

The NSX was the basis for the car Honda used in the super GT championships and it is time for the super GT based Honda to provide the basis for the road going NSX 2.0:wink:

 

[Arshad]

It is a race tested engine....Honda ought to consider using it, with all the modifications that it may need to be a reliable every day engine.

And that's the problem right there. Nobody's going to want an engine that has to be rebuilt every 500 miles. I don't know how you make a race engine reliable other than by making huge concessions with large margins... at which point it looks nothing like the original engine.

 

[Jimbo]

Come on. It's nice to dream but let's get real. Honda can't afford to build a $200-300K car to compete with the LF-A.

They can't afford to build a supercar that only 100 people will buy each year.

They need to sell 3000-5000 units per year and that means a $100K max price and competing with 911, lower end of R8, Z06-ZR1, Cayman S, GT-R, Evora, etc. And a 400hp V6 is perfectly reasonable choice.

Particularly if they can get the weight down.

 

[NetViper]

Particularly if they can get the weight down.

But how many hybrids have kept the weight down?

 

[docjohn]

lol ..you could use that engine on the street on 91 octane....the redline would need to be 3000 rpm

 

[BATMANs]

With their BS earthdream philosophy, it won't happen.

Honda is short sighted.

It's a small V8 so it really won't pollute that much more than a current NSX engine. Maybe the same or even less assuming that there has been improvements.

Same for MPGs.

But that could be the average Asian thinking about engines. Almost all of my non-car guys think V8 are all gas guzzlers. Little do they know about the advances and tricks like higher compression engines, etc.

Honda should release that very same engine in the new NSX, gain market respect and awareness and leverage that to get more customers for their lower end market.

Of course they are short sighted...... as usual..

 

[liftcontrol]

honda is short sighted.

Honda should release that very same engine in the new nsx, gain market respect and awareness and leverage that to get more customers for their lower end market...

...+1...

 

[pegi]

But how many hybrids have kept the weight down?

Well, let's say 1st: crz. Battery weight is only about 25kg. Bad? I dont keep that anyhow bad.
they could get more power on that, but they decide to look forward before take more power on it... Also future will give some more boost on it, that is sure

 

[Ric]

I think Honda has this "arrogant" mindset that they want to be the one who decide what the market needs and not the other way around. they didn't realize that time has changed.

Originally Posted by batmans
honda is short sighted.

Honda should release that very same engine in the new nsx, gain market respect and awareness and leverage that to get more customers for their lower end market...

 

[Honcho]

That V8 will never make it into a production car because it is a race car engine that likely costs at least $100,000. It is designed to run on 101 octane race gas and be rebuilt every few thousand miles. It is pretty much the same engine Honda uses in their Formula Nippon cars.

What you really want is the HSV V10. It is a production-ready design that makes 500hp, has the latest VTEC, and is clean enough to be PZEV. It's a great engine and it is sad we'll never see it on the road.

 

[hondaholic]

Since Honda seems to care more about mother earth than their enthusiast customers, why don't they improve the mpgs on more mainstream models? The best mileage i've ever gotten in my 2010 MDX is 14.1 mpg and have gotten as low as 13. Admittedly I drive like a lunatic but seriously. I had a Pilot before this and I never seemed to get more than 15-16 mpgs no matter how I drove.

 

[MoreRPMs]

Since Honda seems to care more about mother earth than their enthusiast customers, why don't they improve the mpgs on more mainstream models?

In short, because they're incredibly confused and themselves don't know their own mission/niche. Like you said, behemoth MDXs (which sell tens of thousands of units per year) net mileage in the teens, yet a flagship $100K + sportscar (with realistic max sales of a few thousand) needs to be enviro-friendly. Who are they trying to impress, and what are the reasons behind that line of thinking? It's that sort of logic that is irrefutable evidence of total disarray of their corporate mission.

 

[hondaholic]

Oh I almost forgot, I have he sport package - whatever it's called - 19" wheels, adjustable suspension - the default suspension setting is "sport", yet my rotors were warped at 12K miles and the steering was recalibrated in 2010 to something decidedly less sporty (more Buick, and less Porsche). They really have no idea who they want to be - you're totally right.

 

[ncdogdoc]

Remember with all of these weight threads, that there are very few sports cars that are not carbon fiber tubs that weigh less than 3500 pounds. Only the 458 and the z06 have a v-8, and the chevy is pushrod. By the time you add all the adjustable this and that to even a v-6, it becomes a heavy engine.

Lambos are heavy. R8's start at 3500 for the v-8, not sure of the v-10. Only the Boxter/Caymen/911 base and the above mentioned v-8s come in under 3500.

I'm not going to include "boutique" cars, like Exige, Rossion, or even the Noble (not really a production car) as they will all be much lower production numbers and with the lack of all necessary gov safety measures due to exemption.

JMHO.

My GT-R is a pig, but have you ever tried to catch a pig, greased or not

 

[RacingHeart]

After watching some LF-A videos this morning i got depressed that we wont see an engine anywhere near that in the next NSX.

Why is Honda/Acura having such a hard time to deliver what the enthusiasts actually want and not what is interresting and challenging for the engineers!?

People who buy high performance sports cars dont do it because they are concerned about the environment, they do it because of the thrill and performance.

I realized this NSX Concept is nothing more than a call for attention to make people take notice of Acura as an alternative when buying a hybrid to go shopping or taking the kids to school. :frown:

 

[liftcontrol]

In short, because they're incredibly confused and themselves don't know their own mission/niche. Like you said, behemoth MDXs (which sell tens of thousands of units per year) net mileage in the teens, yet a flagship $100K + sportscar (with realistic max sales of a few thousand) needs to be enviro-friendly. Who are they trying to impress, and what are the reasons behind that line of thinking? It's that sort of logic that is irrefutable evidence of total disarray of their corporate mission.

You guys are absolutely right.
Can you imagine Ferrari using a v6 + electric motors and battery power for the 458! No, because they know the buyers of that niche car don't buy it because they are worried about mpg's + so few 458s are sold that it does not matter....they are after performance and sound and feel and that is why the 458 is arguably one of the finest driving machines.

Honda KNOWS the NSX 2.0 will be a very low volume niche car. They know it, and yet they talk all this non sense about insisting on a puny engine and helping it out with electric motors becuase it is better for the environment!!! For the number of NSXs that will be sold, even if it went only 5mpg, what impact will it have on the freaking environment!! They should focus on their mainstream people haulers, of which they sell a ton of, to make an impact on reducing emissions and improving mileage....the enthusiasts do not care if every other Honda is all electric as long as a supposedly "exotic" NSX which once fought and won against a contemporary Ferrari, is not handicapped even before it sees the light of day!

Honda needs to seriously get focused on the right path to a true driver's "exotic" or no matter how good the mpg or how complex the technology that will transfer the torque front to back and sideways or how smooth the transition between the electric motor and the v6, it will not matter and people will vote with their wallets, once again (!) and NSXs will sit on dealer lots waiting for the "enthusiast" who looks at the mpg before he looks at what is under the hood.

Toyota put a shrieking v-10 under the hood of the mispriced LFA.
Honda wants to make the NSX a hybrid v6 and thinks it can fight the world's great exotics and focused sports car companies Audi, Porsche, Ferrari and even Nissan and Toyota must be sighing with relief and chuckling with delight.

 

[NSXBat]

Honda wants to be the world's "greenest" auto company... that's their mission statement.
Their Halo car has to represent that goal in some way.

I'm still a dreamer who remembers Honda in the 80's and 90's as the worlds best engine builder for production cars.
Back then the Halo car made sense, Now the Halo car seems conflicted before its even built.

They did get one thing right... got to give them credit for going back to mid-engine... (I'd like to know who was responsible for the front engine idea a few years back... and what he's doing now that that stupid idea has been tossed in the trash).

 

[hondaholic]

I got 1 word for the senior management at Honda and their conflicted mission:

Honda CR-Z sport hybrid thingy

How that working out for you?

Making a mistake in business is par for the course but repeating mistakes is inexcusable. They can't even make a dedicated hybrid that is competitive good luck on a hybrid super car. I hate to even say this but the concept of a super car hybrid makes sense for Toyota because they are the market leaders. Not to replace the LF-A or a stand alone model but as a version of the LF-A.

I hate Toyota like Yankee fans hate the RedSox but I can't deny the fact that the sound of that LF-A stirs my soul. Something a Honda hasn't done for a decade.

 

[liftcontrol]

I can't deny the fact that the sound of that LF-A stirs my soul. Something a Honda hasn't done for a decade.

You said it brother, that sound reverberates through my heart like nothing else this side of an F1 machine!

When I listen to that thing's gloriously intoxicating wale and scream down the straightaway, I almost feel like I should ante up for the $400k they are asking for it .... but then I come back to my senses.

In my ultimate dream, Honda and Toyota come together and swap engines and cars, the LFA gets the NSX 2.0 body and the NSX 2.0 get the glorious v10 from the LFA:biggrin: Now that would be a $200k NSX and I would be first in line for it.

Hey it can happen, it happened with Toyota FRS-86 and Subarus BRZ!!:wink:
Dreams are cheap and fun.

 

[Caustic]

Would I want a high revving V8 or V10? Hell yeah. But I don't have a problem with a 6 cylinder engine, both Nissan and Porsche have proved it is viable. I actually don't have a problem with the electronic awd hybrid stuff either. What I do have a problem with is perception.

Like others have said, people do not buy sports cars to be green. If Honda uses this as their spearhead for marketing, it will be a bust. But if Honda emphasizes the use of gadgetry to make the car faster, and handle better than the competition, they may get some buy in. Then they can toss in, "oh btw, it gets great gas mileage too", and that would be the icing on the cake.

As it stands, putting hybrid gadgetry in the car to "go green" is too out there for enthusiasts. Few if any care about that in a vehicle that should be purpose built for one thing, speed. All other considerations are secondary.

 

[docjohn]

Mitch and I are working on convincing Honda Corprate to use the v10, but place a small vase in the dash to hold a small flower,like VW..that will keep it green.

 

[BATMANs]

That V8 will never make it into a production car because it is a race car engine that likely costs at least $100,000. It is designed to run on 101 octane race gas and be rebuilt every few thousand miles. It is pretty much the same engine Honda uses in their Formula Nippon cars.

What you really want is the HSV V10. It is a production-ready design that makes 500hp, has the latest VTEC, and is clean enough to be PZEV. It's a great engine and it is sad we'll never see it on the road.

What makes it a race engine?

Engines haven't really changed over the decades from anyone.

Certainly not the bottom end.

Here are the ingredients that I would conjecture as to why that Honda race V8 was making good power:

1. high octane gas that would allow high compression pistons and a more ideal (usually leaner) A/F ratio
2. make the moving components light (short skirted pistons, titanium valves, etc.) so you can climb into higher RPM ranges (after HP is a function of RPMs)
3. improve upon the S2k 120HP/liter design and slap 2 of the heads on each side of the V8

Add all these together and voila! You have a very good combination of power and outta a small V8.

for a production engine the GT3 RS 4.0 has already proven that it's plausible for the street application at almost 500HP NA. If Porsche can do it, Honda can certainly do it since they build more engines than anyone and as a result have more R&D spent in the engine head development. Not to mention that Honda has been in F1 for some time.