New build components...

[David]

David - Could you provide some source or reference to your assertion?

Which?

As for the cranks, I talked to the people at Toda when I was in Japan years ago on one of my first trips. They told me they use a stock NSX crank and cut the journals. I have no idea if it is the same way they make their race cranks (I didn't care enough to ask). I can assure you that, as with almost all performance companies, most of the parts in their catalog are not the same as the parts on their race cars; most are not nearly aggressive enough to be race parts, even for circuit cars.

Regarding the cams, a friend of mine measured the Toda stage 3 nsx cams himself and found their spec sheet to be, well, the polite term would be 'optomistic.'

A tech at Cosworth I used to be very good friends with told me they make parts (eg. pistons) for a couple of Japanese vendors, including Toda, who sell them as their own catalog items. IIRC, the pistons designed to work with FRM sleeves are one of the items Cosworth makes for them.

I do not make claims, especially disparaging ones, lightly. My points are all based on either direct conversations with Toda employees or with people who have first-hand knowledge of the parts. Also, I do not want to be misinterpreted as trying to say Toda is not a good company or their parts are junk - they are just not superior to other parts available (despite what the JDM fanboys may think) and, IMHO, are generally over-priced. I have pointed this out in other threads, but I have yet to meet a famous Japanese tuner who did not at some point tell me he thought the US aftermarket was far ahead of them in terms of both breadth (range of parts available) and technology (engineering resources available). Even the arrogant ones are clearly envious when they talk about companies like Edelbrock and were downright awe-struck when I mentioned I had met Lingenfelter and Banks.

To get back to (or at least in the general direction of) the original purpose of this thread - you have a good engine builder. Trust him. Your role as a good customer is to do the best you can in terms of explaining to him what you want from the motor, how much you want to spend, what you want in terms of reliability and how much risk you are willing to take to get the power you want. After that, just let him put it together. Its much better that way and, in the unfortunate circumstance that a problem arises, the accountability is direct.

Given your relatively modest goals, it should be very straightforward. Best of luck with your project.

 

[angus]

David - Could you provide some source or reference to your assertion?

Are you saying that the parts toda has on their race cars, are different than what they sell?

If that's the case, than I could see there being some truth to it, but if not, I can't see how they would skimp out on their race engines..

I agree with you on the OEM NSX parts. Based on this discussion and Shad discussing daily, I will go with a lot fewer Toda parts.. if any. Probably looking at just the gears and the timing belt.

With CT parts, afaik, they are not truly "CT" parts - they are bought from other, mainly US manufacturers.

In the past, some parts have been bad, with destructive consequenecs... and I haven't (heard) of the same with Today. Hopefully that doesn't happen now....

I'm only brainstorming parts list here, and this is a good discussion.

Thanks for all the feedback.
-Paul

This is good IMO , you are on the right track now .

 

[nsxotic911]

Which?

As for the cranks, I talked to the people at Toda when I was in Japan years ago on one of my first trips. They told me they use a stock NSX crank and cut the journals. I have no idea if it is the same way they make their race cranks (I didn't care enough to ask). I can assure you that, as with almost all performance companies, most of the parts in their catalog are not the same as the parts on their race cars; most are not nearly aggressive enough to be race parts, even for circuit cars.

Regarding the cams, a friend of mine measured the Toda stage 3 nsx cams himself and found their spec sheet to be, well, the polite term would be 'optomistic.'

A tech at Cosworth I used to be very good friends with told me they make parts (eg. pistons) for a couple of Japanese vendors, including Toda, who sell them as their own catalog items. IIRC, the pistons designed to work with FRM sleeves are one of the items Cosworth makes for them.

I do not make claims, especially disparaging ones, lightly. My points are all based on either direct conversations with Toda employees or with people who have first-hand knowledge of the parts. Also, I do not want to be misinterpreted as trying to say Toda is not a good company or their parts are junk - they are just not superior to other parts available (despite what the JDM fanboys may think) and, IMHO, are generally over-priced. I have pointed this out in other threads, but I have yet to meet a famous Japanese tuner who did not at some point tell me he thought the US aftermarket was far ahead of them in terms of both breadth (range of parts available) and technology (engineering resources available). Even the arrogant ones are clearly envious when they talk about companies like Edelbrock and were downright awe-struck when I mentioned I had met Lingenfelter and Banks.

To get back to (or at least in the general direction of) the original purpose of this thread - you have a good engine builder. Trust him. Your role as a good customer is to do the best you can in terms of explaining to him what you want from the motor, how much you want to spend, what you want in terms of reliability and how much risk you are willing to take to get the power you want. After that, just let him put it together. Its much better that way and, in the unfortunate circumstance that a problem arises, the accountability is direct.

Given your relatively modest goals, it should be very straightforward. Best of luck with your project.

Got it. 450RWHP is modest? Damn, I must be slow at 375... cant' imagine another 75.

 

[David]

Got it. 450RWHP is modest? Damn, I must be slow at 375... cant' imagine another 75.

Well, at 450 whp, you are right at the upper limit of what the motor will do stock; that's why I use the term 'modest.' Think of it more as a factor of the solid original design and not as disparaging to the actual power level. ; )