NSX vs. C6 Corvette -- 3rd gear

[jond]

First:
- To the mods, etc. The following events took place on my closed test track.
- To all the people who are going to say how I put the public in harm, how I'm a menace to society, etc. Please note above. And note(knock on wood), in 17 years of driving, I've never had so much as a speeding ticket. I'm a safe driver.

So I was heading back from the gym, windows down cruising in 6th gear at a pretty slow pace just enjoying the weather when I spot this shinny red C6 Corvette coming up behind me. He passes me with the furry and then lets off it. I wake up a little bit, sit up, and go catch him.

So I've never raced a new Corvette before. This wasn't a Z06, but still the new C6 has 400hp and runs around a 12.7 1/4 mile. It should be nose to nose given the 1/4 mile times I would think, but in all honesty, I expect him to take me by a little. I mean, 290hp vs 400hp. Duh...

So he gets in the right lane. We're cruising at a brisk 80mph. I'm in 6th gear. I drop it to 5th being I can't very well race in 6th. I quickly realize 5th isn't going to do it, so I try 4th. Geeze!!! I'm still not near the mysterious vtec, so I ease into 3rd, and what do ya know, 6,000rpm. PERFECT.

I ease up beside him, we look at each other, I give the sign and we floor it. I take it up to the rev limiter and let off. I'm around 1/2 - 3/4 car lengths in front of him. Muhahahhah. Let's give this another go, shall we? We line back up for a second go, we nail it, I'm pulling on the vette as before. This time I shift at redline and give 4th gear a bit of playtime(only for a second). When I let off, I'm a solid car length in front.

We chill out, the corvette pulls up, gives me a thumbs up, and that was that.


So yeah, how the physics work out that 290hp is faster than 400hp, I'm not sure. But it is the case. At least in terms of 3rd gear pulls at speed.


For those curious, my car is 99% stock. I have an intake(but with the stock paper cleaner), and a flowmaster welded to the stock pipes. I shouldn't have a bit more than the stock HP.

 

[my1stnsx]

First:
- To the mods, etc. The following events took place on my closed test track.
- To all the people who are going to say how I put the public in harm, how I'm a menace to society, etc. Please note above. And note(knock on wood), in 17 years of driving, I've never had so much as a speeding ticket. I'm a safe driver.

So I was heading back from the gym, windows down cruising in 6th gear at a pretty slow pace just enjoying the weather when I spot this shinny red C6 Corvette coming up behind me. He passes me with the furry and then lets off it. I wake up a little bit, sit up, and go catch him.

So I've never raced a new Corvette before. This wasn't a Z06, but still the new C6 has 400hp and runs around a 12.7 1/4 mile. It should be nose to nose given the 1/4 mile times I would think, but in all honesty, I expect him to take me by a little. I mean, 290hp vs 400hp. Duh...

So he gets in the right lane. We're cruising at a brisk 80mph. I'm in 6th gear. I drop it to 5th being I can't very well race in 6th. I quickly realize 5th isn't going to do it, so I try 4th. Geeze!!! I'm still not near the mysterious vtec, so I ease into 3rd, and what do ya know, 6,000rpm. PERFECT.

I ease up beside him, we look at each other, I give the sign and we floor it. I take it up to the rev limiter and let off. I'm around 1/2 - 3/4 car lengths in front of him. Muhahahhah. Let's give this another go, shall we? We line back up for a second go, we nail it, I'm pulling on the vette as before. This time I shift at redline and give 4th gear a bit of playtime(only for a second). When I let off, I'm a solid car length in front.

We chill out, the corvette pulls up, gives me a thumbs up, and that was that.


So yeah, how the physics work out that 290hp is faster than 400hp, I'm not sure. But it is the case. At least in terms of 3rd gear pulls at speed.


For those curious, my car is 99% stock. I have an intake(but with the stock paper cleaner), and a flowmaster welded to the stock pipes. I shouldn't have a bit more than the stock HP.

Nice story:smile: ..it could be just the driver, does he have an automatic or manual?? The C6 is pretty quick, maybe he didnt know how to drive!!:biggrin: What year is your car???

 

[HTN]

Well written...
I was there with you. I do not race at all, so I live vicariously through you guys racing. What do you think about NSX vs. WRX Sti?

 

[jond]

Nice story:smile: ..it could be just the driver, does he have an automatic or manual?? The C6 is pretty quick, maybe he didnt know how to drive!!:biggrin: What year is your car???

Thanks. Yeah, it could have been the driver, who knows. Not sure if it was auto or manual. My NSX is a 1997.

I was thinking about it after the fact. The Vettes 12.7 1/4 is helped by huge tires and TORQUE. This gives it, I would think, a much faster start from a stop, where the NSX accomplishes just about the same 1/4 mile with smaller tires and no torque. This means, I would assume, the NSX has more top end than the vette which is what we were testing here. All that said, the results sound about right I would think?

Well written...
I was there with you. I do not race at all, so I live vicariously through you guys racing. What do you think about NSX vs. WRX Sti?

Thanks
I actually got into it with a EVO last year. I think it and the vette are the only two cars I've raced in my NSX. Here's my post about that experience:
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75609

The trick to the STi and EVO are their all wheel drive. If you take that out of the equation by doing highway runs, they're not extremely fast. From a stand still though, they don't accelerate, they LAUNCH.

 

[Dan Ciezniewzki]

I kinda raced Meeyatch (on a cloesed coarse, of coarse ) from around 90-120 in my Diablo with Tubi against his 94 NSX with exhaust and intake (so basicly as powerful as a 97+) and we were neck and neck, I couldnt pull on him.
Now to take the "I cant drive crap" outta the equation, Ive also run with him in my 01 NSX and same thing, neck and neck.

Petty cool a 290hp can car hang with 550+ hp Diablo around 90-120

 

[bobert486]

so based on your reference, if meeyatch's nsx can hang with your diablo, then the diablo would be beaten by a CTS-V??? maybe i was just slowing you down :tongue:

 

[enigma]

I've found that bolt on NSXs perform much better than most people expect... I've run across a couple in my Twin Turbo Z (Not that I'm a big drag racer, but for reference, she has run a 12.8 @ 110), and haven't pulled very much at all on NSXs... Just today, I was simply INCHING on a '91 w/ h/e and a '00 w/ h/e. They're much quicker than people give them credit for!

 

[MvM]

The BIG trick with the NSX is that, especially with the European/US gears, 2nd and 3rd go up such a long way.
I mean, how many cars go do 110 mph in 3rd. At 70 mph you shift down into 3rd and just launch the car up to 110mph. Practically every other car has to shift into 4th around 90-95 mph and then you usually have the advantage.
Exactly the same can occur in 4th. You can go up to 142 mph in 4th gear and I don't know how many times I have used that to pull on almost any other car. And actually, since my rev limit has been raised by the Dali chip, I can even go a little further on the tacho. Most cars are already in 5th by then.

 

[L8apex32]

It all has to do with torque and gear ratio, for your quick little pull against the vette.

You say you did a 3rd gear, 6000rpm pull against a vet. Ok, what torque does your motor make at 6000rpm? Stock NSXes are at torque peak there, about 190 ft-lbs. What is the gear ratio of your car in 3rd gear? And, what is the final drive of your NSX? Multiply those values together (let's just assume equal tire circumfrences and drive line losses versus the vette) and that is your force value. Take your force and divide it by your weight (mass) and you get your acceleration (a = f/m).

Now, do the same for the vette. We'd need to know his torque. And, we'd need to know his tranny (auto/manual?) to know his gear ratio. We can probably look up his final drive ratio and his weight.

That is how to calculate which vehicle will accelerate quicker at a given speed/gear ratio.

That said, however, over a longer run, the main values for determining acceleration is power and weight. A C6 has a better ratio than we do.

Stock NSXes doen't run in the 12s.

If we assume a stock NSX (NA2) has 260rwhp and weighs 3250 with driver, it will run about a 13.5.

If we assume a C6 weighs slighly more with driver, say 3400, but it has 352rwhp, it will run a 12.40.

That's not very close.

 

[J-RnsxT]

TOP END baby!!!:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: i pulled away from a mustang cobra at 80mph back when i was stock(I,E,H), really happy but few minutes later, gallardo came on scene and ate me up... wasnt happy with that so i added FI... my first scene with the FI was with z06 and it was fun:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: ... id say we start at 80 and few seconds later, he was like 7 to 10 or more cars bahind... i dont want to say the speed cause it might incriminate me... he still think he is fast so i pulled away again at 3 DGTZ plus 20... dont worry, there was nobody else on the road but just us two... hehehe:biggrin: :biggrin: Im really happy with the set up now...:wink:

 

[Dan Ciezniewzki]

so based on your reference, if meeyatch's nsx can hang with your diablo, then the diablo would be beaten by a CTS-V??? maybe i was just slowing you down :tongue:

he only beat me when he would jump the gun, and you fat ass was slowing me down:biggrin:

 

[BioBanker]

In my experience, small things can have a big impact.

Ive been behind a new Z06 coming through the hairpin at Mosport and it has taken a long time for that car to walk away. And even then, it is a walk, not a run, away. I was probably getting on the gas a second sooner than he was and it made the difference. It takes him 3/4 of a mile, from say 50mph to about 100mph to start to get away. Even at about 150mph, hes not pulling nearly as much as you'd expect (or as much as Id expect).

Get on the gas slightly sooner and you're golden.

 

[jond]

It all has to do with torque and gear ratio, for your quick little pull against the vette.

You say you did a 3rd gear, 6000rpm pull against a vet. Ok, what torque does your motor make at 6000rpm? Stock NSXes are at torque peak there, about 190 ft-lbs. What is the gear ratio of your car in 3rd gear? And, what is the final drive of your NSX? Multiply those values together (let's just assume equal tire circumfrences and drive line losses versus the vette) and that is your force value. Take your force and divide it by your weight (mass) and you get your acceleration (a = f/m).

Now, do the same for the vette. We'd need to know his torque. And, we'd need to know his tranny (auto/manual?) to know his gear ratio. We can probably look up his final drive ratio and his weight.

That is how to calculate which vehicle will accelerate quicker at a given speed/gear ratio.

That said, however, over a longer run, the main values for determining acceleration is power and weight. A C6 has a better ratio than we do.

Stock NSXes doen't run in the 12s.

If we assume a stock NSX (NA2) has 260rwhp and weighs 3250 with driver, it will run about a 13.5.

If we assume a C6 weighs slighly more with driver, say 3400, but it has 352rwhp, it will run a 12.40.

That's not very close.

Guess it depends on where you get your numbers from.

The best 1/4 mile I've heard for a 97+ NSX was 12.9 seconds. I think that was from Car and Driver 2001.

Car and driver says the new vette does a 12.7:
http://www.caranddriver.com/roadtests/8423/2005-chevrolet-corvette-z51-test-results-page4.html

Thus, 12.7 vs 12.9. Thats NOT very much.

 

[TTony]

When comparing highway "roll-ons" you need to look at the 1/4 mile trapspeeds. The 1/4 mile elapsed time is pretty much irrelevant. I'm not sure what they are stock vs stock in this case.

 

[MvM]

Yes, the NSX can be faster than one would think, judging by just the paper numbers.
But then again, it works both ways of course.

Just last weekend, I was travelling home from a meeting at a just reopened Honda dealer and there was a new BMW Mini Cooper S behind me. The driver in it was obviously eager to see how his car would do.
On paper, that car has only 175 HP, whereas I am somewhere around 305 HP. However, the new Mini weighs only about 2450 lbs so it has a advantage there.
The highway was pretty empty, and I was again and again pulling on him in a big way. But it surprised me to see that little car hanging with me at around speeds of up to 130 mph.
Could be his car wasn't stock of course, but still. I could pull on him but every time I was slowing down a bit he was right there behind me again.
After about 20 miles, we gave us each a thumbs up and went out own way.

 

[soloracer951]

I pulled a newer style M3 convertible and WRX STi with my CTSC NA1 NSX. Everything on my car is stock with the exception of the blower running at lower boost levels. The dyno sheet the previous owner had showed 295 rwhp. In both cases I started behind the opponents car and it wasn't until speeds exceeded 110 mph that I started to pull. Even then it wasn't a night and day difference - just a slow gradual pull.

 

[sahtt]

It all has to do with torque and gear ratio, for your quick little pull against the vette.

You say you did a 3rd gear, 6000rpm pull against a vet. Ok, what torque does your motor make at 6000rpm? Stock NSXes are at torque peak there, about 190 ft-lbs. What is the gear ratio of your car in 3rd gear? And, what is the final drive of your NSX? Multiply those values together (let's just assume equal tire circumfrences and drive line losses versus the vette) and that is your force value. Take your force and divide it by your weight (mass) and you get your acceleration (a = f/m).

Now, do the same for the vette. We'd need to know his torque. And, we'd need to know his tranny (auto/manual?) to know his gear ratio. We can probably look up his final drive ratio and his weight.

That is how to calculate which vehicle will accelerate quicker at a given speed/gear ratio.

That said, however, over a longer run, the main values for determining acceleration is power and weight. A C6 has a better ratio than we do.

Stock NSXes doen't run in the 12s.

If we assume a stock NSX (NA2) has 260rwhp and weighs 3250 with driver, it will run about a 13.5.

If we assume a C6 weighs slighly more with driver, say 3400, but it has 352rwhp, it will run a 12.40.

That's not very close.

I don't think normal NSX engines have a peak torque of 190. If you are going to say NSX's run a 13.5, that's fine, but then C6's [manual] typically run high 12's in real life. It takes a very skilled c6 z06 driver to get in to the 11's. Most vipers run low 12's at the track. I've been to Houston speedway and San Antonio speedway many, many times to race motorcycles. Those are the real world figures if you want to bring them up.

You are getting a little too caught up in the technical aspects and forgetting the big picture. For instance, where do aerodynamics come in to your analysis? I assure you that aero's have a huge effect on freeway races at high speeds. In fact, the only two variables in determining top speed are power [not torque] and aerodynamic properites [not weight]. But obviously they do matter because most races, even highway races, are on the way to the cars' top speeds and does not finish at them.

A roll on highway race is essentially a race to your top speed contest. Once you take the launch and the first two gears out of the equation it becomes much simpler. Driver error is minimized as is suspension setup, tires, etc. for the most part.

If a stock 5spd C6 in perfect conditions can supposedly hit 186mph. Just the additional drivetrain loss of an automatic would bring that closer to 180 flat. Stock manual NSX's can eclipse 170, and modded ones can surely get close to 180 N/A.

So if the C6 happened to have bigger wheels than stock or if the NSX was dropped with I/H/E/Tuning there is a good chance the NSX with the addition of a little more favorable gearing circumstances could beat a C6 on a highway run.

Note that's probably the only place as well.

 

[TURBO2GO]

In my experience, small things can have a big impact.

Ive been behind a new Z06 coming through the hairpin at Mosport and it has taken a long time for that car to walk away. And even then, it is a walk, not a run, away. I was probably getting on the gas a second sooner than he was and it made the difference. It takes him 3/4 of a mile, from say 50mph to about 100mph to start to get away. Even at about 150mph, hes not pulling nearly as much as you'd expect (or as much as Id expect).

Get on the gas slightly sooner and you're golden.

Yeah, and have a Comptech supercharger handy. Please don't forget to mention that before people who don't know you think you are delusional.

 

[NetViper]

The NSX is deceptively fast, but let's keep it real here.

NSX 3.0 0-150 MPH is 46 seconds.
NSX 3.2 is about 35 seconds.

C6 is 25

C6 Z06 is 17.5

It is not very close.

 

[NetViper]

Guess it depends on where you get your numbers from.

The best 1/4 mile I've heard for a 97+ NSX was 12.9 seconds. I think that was from Car and Driver 2001.

Car and driver says the new vette does a 12.7:
http://www.caranddriver.com/roadtests/8423/2005-chevrolet-corvette-z51-test-results-page4.html

Thus, 12.7 vs 12.9. Thats NOT very much.

You are using the FASTEST 1/4 of any NSX ever recorded in a magazine. That was a 3.2 coupe if I recall.

Most magazines have the time of a 3.2 around 13.2 @ 106-108. The vette on average is 12.7 @ 113-115.

Not many supercharged NSX's run 114 MPH in the 1/4 -- at least not many I have seen.


I love both cars, but having owned both, the C6 is faster.

At roebling road, my stock NSX hit about 130 MPH in the straight. A CTSC 3.0 will do about 140. I did 141 in the vette and I wasn't pushing it. A friend with a Z06 hit 165.

 

[s14_tat]

The NSX is deceptively fast, but let's keep it real here.

NSX 3.0 0-150 MPH is 46 seconds.
NSX 3.2 is about 35 seconds.

C6 is 25

C6 Z06 is 17.5

It is not very close.

are you sure that a n/a 1 takes that long to hit 0-150 vs the n/a2? i find that hard to believe that a stock STi can hit 150 almost 16 seconds faster than n/a1. A stock STi usually only traps 100-102mphs also with horrible aero dynamics.


and how can only 20 hp give a 11 second improvement in 0-150mph time? It doesn't add up. Not to mention that when road and track did the 0-150-0 test, the n/a 2 was 3 seconds faster to 150mph than the C5 vette which are proven to dyno over 300whp stock.

 

[NetViper]

are you sure that a n/a 1 takes that long to hit 0-150 vs the n/a2? i find that hard to believe that a stock STi can hit 150 almost 16 seconds faster than n/a1. A stock STi usually only traps 100-102mphs also with horrible aero dynamics.


and how can only 20 hp give a 11 second improvement in 0-150mph time? It doesn't add up. Not to mention that when road and track did the 0-150-0 test, the n/a 2 was 3 seconds faster to 150mph than the C5 vette which are proven to dyno over 300whp stock.

6-speed vs. 5-speed probably has more to do with it than the 20HP. The time was in the FAQ. I cant seem to find it now.

0-150 times are hard to come across, but for me it is a strong measurement of a cars power. 0-60 is too easy to mess up with drivers.

Anyway, both cars are great. Maybe I will own both one day.

If there was a safe place to do it, I would race against my friends 3.2 and 3.0 CTSC, but I am just NOT comfortable doing highway runs.

 

[s14_tat]

6-speed vs. 5-speed probably has more to do with it than the 20HP. The time was in the FAQ. I cant seem to find it now.

0-150 times are hard to come across, but for me it is a strong measurement of a cars power. 0-60 is too easy to mess up with drivers.

Anyway, both cars are great. Maybe I will own both one day.

If there was a safe place to do it, I would race against my friends 3.2 and 3.0 CTSC, but I am just NOT comfortable doing highway runs.

I would expect the 6 speed to hurt it more in the top end, since you would loose time shifting. The 5 speeds gear ratio once it hits past 3rd gear will never fall off v-tec, and everytime you shift at the a similar speed with the 6 speed your putting yourself into a taller gear ratio which negates the advantage, when your still in the shorter ratio for the 5 speed. basically 4th gear vs 5th, 5th vs 6th gear etc.

 

[NetViper]

I would expect the 6 speed to hurt it more in the top end, since you would loose time shifting. The 5 speeds gear ratio once it hits past 3rd gear will never fall off v-tec, and everytime you shift at the a similar speed with the 6 speed your putting yourself into a taller gear ratio which negates the advantage, when your still in the shorter ratio for the 5 speed. basically 4th gear vs 5th, 5th vs 6th gear etc.

Not sure what to tell you. Do a little research. The 3.2 is a lot faster.

 

[NetViper]

Another thing to look at are the times at the ring.

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79811&highlight=0-150+times