Opinions on my gauge setup decision?

[TURBO2GO]

Been doing a lot of research into proper instrumentation. I have looked at EVERYTHING including AEM, Defi, HKS, Prosport, STACK, Autometer, PLX devices, Zeitronix, Greddy, etc.

I think what I need to have are:

1) Air Fuel ratio
2) Boost
3) Fuel pressure
4) Oil temperature
5) Intake Air temp
6) Possibly oil pressure mainly because a warning would be nice as the stock gauge does nothing. Can save your motor.

So where do I fit all this neatly?

For boost and AFR I can get one gauge, the new AEM Failsafe which has a built-in data logger and a better large white OLED display in the center instead of the red. I find the standard AEM dual display of digital center and LED ring to be dizzing, at least the new OLED display is better. Being this thing datalogs and is fully PC programmable, I feel its the one to get:

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For the rest, my two top runners were the new Autometer Elite, and the almost identical STACK Pro-Control. I am going with STACK because they are just a better name and I don't want silver bezels. I like these a lot because they have a peak and hold memory function, as well as the low and high limit flashing Alarm, and the ability to trigger other items when limits are reached. This is very very cool. The STACK seems to have 2 modes on the trigger, the autometer only one. Here is the autometer video:

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For IAT I may have to go with prosport, I don't know who else makes it.

Any opinions?

 

[solidol]

I used to have aeroforce via obd. Could switch between different measurements and I think it can display two metrics side by side.

 

[turbolence46]

You running aem ems?

 

[TURBO2GO]

You running aem ems?

I am not running an EMS. It's an 05 with DBW, I need to pass emissions. At most perhaps a FIC. I also find most OBDII data to be latent and useless. The info I need like IAT, oil temp, boost, and AFR are not really available with any precision off the OBDII port. Plus I am just not that into the small LCD screen trying to display - bunch of gaguges at once. They are not legible. I have ALWAYS thought any gauge, aftermarket or OEM needs to have an alarm of some sort and they still do not for the most part, and I don't get that. You can run an NSX motor too hot, and by the time you get a CEL yor engine is molten lava... You can lose oil pressure to a risky level before a check engine light comes on. Your oil or water temps and soar with zero warning at all... And at most, still when it's too late you get a little yellow picture of an engine. A flashing light along with a buzzer immediately calling your attention is the job of every gauge, never mind it automatically triggering countermeasures to save your motor. That's what these gauges do. I think for the general public perhaps warnings are too much, so manufacturers stay away from them. But if you know and understand cars, you are certainly better off with some proper instrumentation.

Question is where can I fit 4-5 gauges without it looking totally riced out. I like these analog style gauges with peak hold functionality better than the led and LCD display ones like the PLX or most of the AEM because they are less ricey. I have no radio, but that's a bit low. I don't know how many 52mm gaguges I can fit in a nav pod but that's not a great place either, it doesn't look great. A pillar is actually a functional spot but I can only fit two with the SOS A pillar pod and it is super rice rocket. In the ashtray is just too hidden and too low. I do have an extra center console. My best bet might be 6 gauges where the radio normaly sits. That's a bit low too but because these flash on over/under I don't have to keep a constant eye on them.

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To be clear on what these stack gaguges do:

You can set a high point, an ok point, and a low point. It will change color when in low area... Say the engine is cold... Change color in mid area, say operations temps.... And change color when hot... Then it can further FLASH beyond your high point or low point... So you can have a temp gaguge be blue when engine is cold... Change to amber during operating temp.... Then go red if it gets hot... And then FLASH when it gets even hotter. Furthermore it can trigger a relay on a fan, or an audible alarm or both. It does everything!!

The reason I started a new gauge thread is because this is all new stuff that is available.

 

[nsxvtecvtec]

how about this greddy multi gauge?

http://www.greddy.com/products/electronics/multi-da/

 

[RYU]

I'm assuming Dave is still building a street car here (thought sometimes I wonder if he's really building a dedicated track car).

So far i'm very happy with my HKS F-Con display via an LCD screen. It doesn't have a peak-hold feature (nice to have indeed) but the LCD display is very legible and rather dummy proof. It's got user defined cold > warm > hot ranges. For example, my ECT is set to where anywhere below 70C it's green. 71C-89C it's yellow (meaning proper operating temp range) and 90C+ it's bright red. I have all my monitoring parameters (oil temp, oil press, fuel press, IAT, AFR, etc..) set this way. It's not the prettiest but neither is an F1 steering wheel - it's very functional.

I don't have the gauges on all the time. I toggle between the Navigation touch screen, backup camera, and soon the occasional movie (for the wknd trips with the lady). I would not be happy if my center console was filled with gauges 100% of the time wherein I only really look at these parameters during hard driving conditions. To me, that's not what a supercar should be. $0.02

I don't think the HKS solution is right for you per say but I think the LCD option is a good compromise for a street/track car.

btw... HKS is making a comeback. They are already in the process of building up their USA distribution network again if in case you were remotely interested in the product. If I had an NA2 DBW car i'd go HKS F-Con iS no question... but that's just me. the iS vs. the F/IC is like comparing an iPhone with a calculator.

 

[docjohn]

a car of your stature needs a nifty toggle through heads up display.

 

[TURBO2GO]

Ryu why do you prefer the F-con IS?

 

[RYU]

I guess i'm not guilty of derailing your thread this time. I may have mentioned the pros/cons before so i'll keep this short. Asides from the hardware being better on the HKS it's the next best thing I could find short of a full blown EMS replacement. It can do a lot of what a full EMS can do yet still preserve the OEM fueling strategies. It can even advance timing and contains several more compensation mapping tables. If you're determined to keep your OBD2 ECU (I don't blame you) the F-Con iS is a good option. HKS has also mapped in to the OEM firmware such that even on the cryptic OBD1 system it can read basic stuff like IAT, ECT, TPS, and other proprietary Honda sensors no other piggyback can. It can do a lot more for the OBD2. It also has a built-in video output to display these sensors onto a video screen as mentioned above. It certainly cost more and to ensure high QC and consistency you have to use their Denso or Bosch sensors.

iS vs. F/IC

I'll be studying the software over the next few months. It seems pretty standard. The goal is to tune the system myself in the long run.

Caveat: The iS is not immune to the factory ECU have "moments" though. Sometimes my factory ECU acts weird. For example there's a short amount of time during cold warmup when the ECU transitions from Open Loop to Closed Loop. I think it was around 74-75C on the ECT. The car will idle like it had a vacuum leak. it's momentary but these weird things do happen with a piggyback. Hopefully I can learn more what the system is doing at these times and I can tune it out.

 

[turbolence46]

I see what you mean

Yeah, one of my things with gauges is it is hard to install them without making them look like you just wanted "gauges" in your car; they can look ricey even though you actually use and need them. I made a pod for the a/c vent It does look a bit race-ish, but its right at my eye level. I have EGT, Fuel Pressure, and EGT again (I like checks and balances, and keeping an eye on ign timing effects) and went digital for the rest. I agree, the digital display does not have an audible warning yet which is a really big issue. Most of the time I don't look at it and that makes it less effective, but its still works great for monitoring. Perhaps you could do 3 gauges in the dash and 2 on top of steering wheel column or on the inner corners of the gauge bezel? Just a thought. I originally wanted to move the a/c unit lower and use that space to work, but it can't. It's too wide, you could go a little lower, but not enough to put gauges in I think.

 

[TURBO2GO]

How much is that thing?

 

[turbolence46]

I haven't set a price yet, I'll be working on the molds in about a week and half. Hopefully it doesn't take me long so I can make these affordable for Prime members.

 

[TURBO2GO]

I was actually asking Ryu how much the Fcon IS is... LOL... but I am curious about your pod too. Do you have to cut your vents for it?

 

[RYU]

turbolence - I really like your gauge setups. Keep it up man!

turboDave - to be honest, I don't know what the street price for these are or will be. $800-1200 roughly is my guess. Then it's $100-500 for each additional sensor like a WB, Knock Amp, fuel press, oil temp, or whatever your don't want to view from your OBD2. If you're really serious about the F-Con I can inquire with my friend on your behalf who will need no introduction here with the older primates...

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there are several guys here in socal who are running the F-Con successfully. but like with many SoCal NSX owners... they stay away from Prime for some reason.

 

[turbolence46]

It'll be fiberglass, so you wont be cutting any of your stock parts. The backing is perforated so the a/c comes out pretty strong still, although you cannot direct the air. There is no way around this. The 52mm fit in there perfectly with little room to spare, you will also be removing the clock obviously. The one I made for my car was a one off, but I will see what I can come up with in a bit, and my bad about replying to the question to RYU, use the quotes brotha! lol

 

[NSXRAY1]

If you could come up with a way for the air to be directional, I am sure this would be a hit with a lot of Primers purchasing. I know I would.

 

[TURBO2GO]

I don't see wh air being directional there is a big deal. You have the side vents. It's a tiny cabin. It's not like you are in some big room trying to make two zones. You are asking him to do something nearly impossible but it's not for a lot of gain. Don't forget how small the NSX cabin is.

 

[Shaylord]

This maybe be a dumb question. I searched but didn't find anything on it. Has anyone tried gutting the stock gauge cluster and putting more accurate and different gauges in it in the factory locations before?

 

[turbolence46]

This maybe be a dumb question. I searched but didn't find anything on it. Has anyone tried gutting the stock gauge cluster and putting more accurate and different gauges in it in the factory locations before?

I'm sure this can be done, a few people have gone with completely custom gauges. But given the price on a replacement clusters most people havent done this. Also, there is the odometer which technically is seperate but still very much in there. Keep searching on prime there are a few threads on removing them, maintenance etc.

 

[TURBO2GO]

This maybe be a dumb question. I searched but didn't find anything on it. Has anyone tried gutting the stock gauge cluster and putting more accurate and different gauges in it in the factory locations before?

Yes, but I am very conscious of the rarity of my 2005 and I don't want to alter it too far from OEM. If I had a lesser expensive NSX that I tracked part time I would change the whole dash to a STACK or a Defi. Neither is cheap you are looking at 4-5K all said and done.

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Scorp had a stack in his car.

 

[g3driver]

Any update on this gauge pod setup in the air vent?

[
QUOTE=turbolence46;1713071]Yeah, one of my things with gauges is it is hard to install them without making them look like you just wanted "gauges" in your car; they can look ricey even though you actually use and need them. I made a pod for the a/c vent It does look a bit race-ish, but its right at my eye level. I have EGT, Fuel Pressure, and EGT again (I like checks and balances, and keeping an eye on ign timing effects) and went digital for the rest. I agree, the digital display does not have an audible warning yet which is a really big issue. Most of the time I don't look at it and that makes it less effective, but its still works great for monitoring. Perhaps you could do 3 gauges in the dash and 2 on top of steering wheel column or on the inner corners of the gauge bezel? Just a thought. I originally wanted to move the a/c unit lower and use that space to work, but it can't. It's too wide, you could go a little lower, but not enough to put gauges in I think.[/QUOTE]

 

[turbolence46]

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Any update on this gauge pod setup in the air vent?

I believe I have a post on this entitled "If I made these would anyone buy them" something like that. Try to reply on that so we arent hijacking turbo2go's thread. I havent started yet, but I have another 2 weeks off. I'm supposed to be doing a magazine shoot, so I'm trying to figure out if I should yank my stuff out and start the mold, but he keeps postponing the shoot. I should have a mold done in the next week or two. At that point I'll see if its cost effective to start production. Feel free to PM me.

 

[TURBO2GO]

Don't worry about hijacking my thread. I like your pod a lot and want to see what happens with it. I have another thread gong in the electronics section about my own attempt at this. It's not to say if mine fails I wouldn't try your solution and put some of my gauges in the glove box or something. Yours is clean.

 

[scammy]

i really like the air vent option that may get made, it doesnt look as ricey as the 'a pillar gauge pod' option a lot of cars have this as an OEM in that position

 

[ozone]

I find directional air to be important. The small cabin gets cool very quickly. Sometimes I want the cabin to be cool but not with über cool air coming straight on my face. But other times I get in a hot car and need the direct blast.

If you guys had just 2 gauges on SC setup what would you pick? I have a boost and AFR. AFR is a Christmas light type thing which isn't useful. Better to get gauges with multiple functions and if so which ones?

I guess for those that track you want to see all the gauges at once. For me, and other street drivers I don't need to see the gauges all the time so eye level isn't imperative. I just want to see when I need to and be warned if something is up.

I also did not want gauges on the A pillar. Useful but not the look I was going for.