SC Aftercoolers are all gone???

PhiAlpha44 · 23 May 2014

I was rocking and rolling on my car pretty well between buying it in 2006 and 2010. At that point I hit a snag in employment and I had to take a hiatus from improving the X. One of the last things I had planned before I had to stop was to have one of the Laminova Aftercoolers from Science of Speed added to my SC setup. Well I've finally righted my employment ship and now that I hop back in the game I find Science of Speed doesn't sell their version anymore... Driving Ambition had developed one and THEY don't sell it anymore... Damnit man. Am I just S.O.L.? I can't tell you how frustrated I am. I've been thinking about adding it to my car for years and now that I can I can't get a hold of one. Does anybody have a lead for me? Somebody selling one? Another place to find one? Nothing like "limited edition" parts for the cars... :frown:

BUMMED!

TURBO2GO · 23 May 2014

The laminova had limited effectiveness. It needed another 2 cores to be fully effective but that wouldn't fit. IMO the DA one was more effective especially on the track. The laminova was probably OK for a more limited street use. Sometimes when you see a part go away it is because the part itself may have issues. Last I spoke to shad he was willing to make a run of them, but wanted to do like 6. It is not a cheap upgrade. You obviously also need a whole host of other parts like the pump, heat exchanger, possibly new pulley, etc. This is all if you already have engine management and larger injectors. If not, you will need that too. That's why it's not the most popular item... It's a lot of cost. Your best bet right now would be to see if you can get someone to replicate the DA one or just ask shad first and see if he is interested in making any more of them.

ken sampson · 23 May 2014

I'm Building a new intake manifold with IC and will be selling my current intake with IC. I have just started the new one so it will be sometime at the end of summer before I do the swap. I going a little bigger due to higher PSI. About 19 PSI is my new goal my current setup works great up to 12-15 PSI. What SC are you running? And how much boost?
Ken

TURBO2GO · 23 May 2014

Ken I ahve followed you through the years, and you really have done some fantastic work. You're a huge contributor to the NSX community. I see you have really always wanted to stick with a blower. 19 PSI.... wow.... I am curious with that much boost and power why didn't you just go turbo?

ken sampson · 23 May 2014

I have had a lot of Turbo cars and this is my first SC car. I just like all the bottom end TQ. The 19 PSI tune will be on E85 I just installed my Flex fuel sensor. This way I can run 15 PSI on pump gas. I have a boost controller on my SC and plan to have this controlled by the AEM when it select E85 it will automatically run 19 PSI when pump gas it will reduce boost to around 15 PSI.
Thanks
Ken

ken sampson · 27 May 2014

I built my Intake to hold two size IC cores one gives me 110 SQ inches of cooling and the other is 176 SQ inches. They all go into the same intake with no issues on Targa top storage.

TURBO2GO · 28 May 2014

Why did you want two cores? And how do you control boost on a twin screw?

PhiAlpha44 · 28 May 2014

ken sampson said:
What SC are you running? And how much boost?
Ken

The Kenny Bell 2.1L from S.O.S. on the regular 9psi.

PainIs4ThaWeak · 28 May 2014

I had been under the same impression that Turbo2Go stated. (Limited Effectiveness.)

Jose Mercado (K series Supercharging africanado) backed away from the laminova cores as well, stating an efficiency handicap when compared to typical Bell (plate & bar type) cores, in regards to Eaton MP62 / K20 applications.

Which brings me to the question, (since I'm a newbie), are there not any plate & bar WTA or ATA intercooler options available?

DDozier · 28 May 2014

PainIs4ThaWeak said:
I had been under the same impression that Turbo2Go stated. (Limited Effectiveness.)

Jose Mercado (K series Supercharging africanado) backed away from the laminova cores as well, stating an efficiency handicap when compared to typical Bell (plate & bar type) cores, in regards to Eaton MP62 / K20 applications.

Which brings me to the question, (since I'm a newbie), are there not any plate & bar WTA or ATA intercooler options available?

The issue is the CTSC intake design, the intake leaves almost no room to place an intercooler, and if you do design one for use in the intake nearly 2/3rds of the actual core size is underutilized and 1/3rd of the core does the bulk of the work due to the discharge of placement of the Whipple or Autorotor design. When I had my CTSC I spent a long time studying the problem and looking for solutions. I have looked at almost every available core type and placement trying to come up with an effective design that was better than those already on offer. I could not design anything that was better than Shad's design and nothing that was within my design goal of being able to retain the engine cover. I did gain a lot of insite into intercooler design and that lead me to my "in the OEM intake design" that will work with any type of forced air as long as the OEM intake is retained.

To make an effective intercooler for the CTSC I am of the opinion that the intake and blower placement will need to be changed and the engine cover will be lost. These were not something I wanted in my own car so I sold the CTSC and went Turbo.

You could always run a chemical cooler like Methanol or water similar to the one I have built for a local guy. I have attached some pictures of the first prototype unit that after 4-5 4th gear pulls back to back on the dyno gave us an IAT of 115* and we are spraying less than 330cc on 8psi of boost. We made no tuning changes and the plate yeilded 25whp across the pull. V2 will have better placement of the nozzels and another trick I want to try to encourage a better mix of air and coolant.

Dave

PainIs4ThaWeak · 29 May 2014

Dave,

I don't completely agree.

I agree that the discharge of the Whipple/Autorotor/Eaton blowers directs the charge in a "V" pattern, and towards one side. However, I don't completely agree that a bar/plate WTA A/C is completely useless (my words.)

The K20 CT-Engineering manifold is also very shallow. After fitting even a 1" thick MP62 mounting plate with a 2.25" WTA Bell I/C core, you've barely an inch of clearance left between the core and narrowest point inside the CT-E manifold. Also being an I-4 engine, and due to the design of the CT-E manifold/supercharger mounting, the charge must bend roughly 120 degrees to enter the head. (Also not ideal.)

However, it does work. IAT's for an MP62 equipped K20 can reach into the 200*F realm (uncooled.) Using a 2.25" WTA Bell core, the temps can be reduced into the 120-130*F realm.
Photo of a 9 second section of a 3 minute datalog, with 3 WOT to redline stints for the mentioned setup can be found here: https://www.facebook.com/1862850580...6285058056671/586367118048461/?type=3&theater

Peak gains of the fore mentioned are typically 20-30whp. Overall, gains are seen below 3000rpm, with the largest gains above 6000rpm.
https://www.facebook.com/1862850580...6285058056671/492351744116666/?type=3&theater

Having said that, J. Mercado's, along with Innovative Motorworks and VitViper Tuning's solutions (who took queues from J. Mercado's design) aren't impervious to heat soak under repeat boost situations (eg. on the circuit), but for street applications, people seem to be quite happy with them.

Which brings me to another question, is there a reason that a thicker S/C mounting plate can't be used on the C30/C32? I assume this would probably interfere with strut/chassis bars and/or the engine cover itself, but am I wrong by assuming that some people don't utilize these items anyway?

For reference:

Image of K20 CT-E manifold:

http://i389.photobucket.com/albums/oo334/kylenjdm/ctscfs1_zps14a8ac77.jpg

Image of J. Mercado type bar/plate A/C:

http://mercracing.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/CT-Engineering-Aftercooler.jpg