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Steve- teach us all about real estate

Joined
19 June 2005
Messages
131
Location
TN
Please?

Seriously, you've obviously done very well in the market. I know it's no glitzy career at times dealing with tenants, but would be very interested in learning of a few example scenarios when you've been successful, as well as some lessons learned from deals gone bad. You're a good storyteller, so be sure and add some flavor!

Also, would be very interested in learning of your basic rules on debt/cashflow, etc.

I think this will be very interesting.

Thanks!
 
Please?

Seriously, you've obviously done very well in the market. I know it's no glitzy career at times dealing with tenants, but would be very interested in learning of a few example scenarios when you've been successful, as well as some lessons learned from deals gone bad. You're a good storyteller, so be sure and add some flavor!

Also, would be very interested in learning of your basic rules on debt/cashflow, etc.

I think this will be very interesting.

Thanks!
neural / jonathan,

this is a great idea and one i've pushed around in my brain several times - having steve / other subject matter experts produce a ref document(s) to the extent their time / interest allow.

specifically, months ago... maybe even a year ago, steve put up a very detailed post about the specifics of a certain type of re investing / management (i'm embarrassed that i didn't bookmark the thread.) given steve's (yet again) good posts on re investing / mgmt, just this morning i was thinking, "jeez, i wonder if we can't get sme's (subject matter experts) to draft docs and post them in the wiki / other sources.

among the true wonders of the prime community is the breadth / depth / willingness of members to actively share their knowledge / serve as resources for one another.

so, waddyasay,steve?

hal
btw, did everyone see rso's post / suggestion in the prime/wiki section on vendor participation / responsibilities - another great piece of work in and of itself.
 
If he's feeling lazy, he could just compile his Prime posts. That would be enough to keep you busy for awhile and teach you a thing or two.

But Steve, I've read revenue-stream books and it's obvious that the authors in many cases have less experience and certainly less success. Crank out a book! Yeah, it's hard work but you've never shied away from that. An added incentive is that there is money in it.

Edit: I know, you're busy. I'll wait a few years until you retire and read it while I watch NSX's Gone Wild.:wink:
 
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1. Steve doesn't really work.
2. If he did write a book, it'd be a pop up.

I'm joking, I'm pushing for this too. Just do it Steve!:biggrin:
 
"The rent keeps going up and my payments stay the same"
 
My guess is that Steve has excellent value (R/E) investing discipline. He knows what his cashflow/risk parameters are, and he simply won't invest unless a deal meets his return expectations (cash flow only).

It's much much much more difficult to NOT invest when there are opportunities, than it is to just take the plunge. At least, this has been my experience and without a doubt, the single biggest differentiator I've noticed amongst value-oriented investment professionals. It's a rare trait, and Steve is one of the lucky few to have it I think.
 
My guess is that Steve has excellent value (R/E) investing discipline. He knows what his cashflow/risk parameters are, and he simply won't invest unless a deal meets his return expectations (cash flow only).

It's much much much more difficult to NOT invest when there are opportunities, than it is to just take the plunge. At least, this has been my experience and without a doubt, the single biggest differentiator I've noticed amongst value-oriented investment professionals. It's a rare trait, and Steve is one of the lucky few to have it I think.

Ski has it. Same reason he's good at financial investing. Discipline above else is required for long term success.
 
Ski has it. Same reason he's good at financial investing. Discipline above else is required for long term success.
+1, and isn't discipline one of the key fundamentals to success in most (professional) endeavors?
 
Steve here.
The secret of my success is very simple.
The key is to buy low and then sell high. You will do well if you do it that way. Otherwise, you will lose money.
Steve
 
Steve here.
The secret of my success is very simple.
The key is to buy low and then sell high. You will do well if you do it that way. Otherwise, you will lose money.
Steve
damn short book, but thanks for the quick response! :)
 
Steve is actually preparing a real estate infomercial as we speak. Here's his inspiration:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/iQNdi-fRExc&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/iQNdi-fRExc&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Mansion? Check. Ferrari? Check. Great tag lines? See for yourself:

"This is not a country club! This is my house!"
"Today I'm gonna show you how to drive a sports car. First, you need a lot of money!"
"Don't listen to your friends. They're losers!"
"Do you think these girls like me? NO, they like my money!"

That's all that I can reveal for now. If you want more, it's just 3 easy payments of $49.95 (paypal add 10%, bitches).

Here's the list:

1. pvmike
2. nsxnick
3. tamoske
4. nsxgod
5.
6.

Join now!
 
After reading this thread again, I realized that I probably should have refrained from joking around. Sounds like the OP really wants to learn.

The truth is, Steve should probably write a book, but I doubt a book would be able to detail the knowledge required to maximize returns in purchasing and managing investment property. It's more than just collecting rents and fielding calls - there's also construction and construction management, dealing with the city and inspectors, building a local network to source deals, deal structure and finance, an intimate knowledge of the local building code to know where there's wiggle room, and the ability to effectively manage your time and the people around you. Steve's success is built on 25 years of hard work in the field.

I have personally purchased, sold, financed, managed, constructed, and entitled various forms of real estate, and I'm still learning every day. Guess who manages property for me...

Yup, this guy:

image.php
 
Steve is actually preparing a real estate infomercial as we speak. Here's his inspiration:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/iQNdi-fRExc&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/iQNdi-fRExc&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Mansion? Check. Ferrari? Check. Great tag lines? See for yourself:

"This is not a country club! This is my house!"
"Today I'm gonna show you how to drive a sports car. First, you need a lot of money!"
"Don't listen to your friends. They're losers!"
"Do you think these girls like me? NO, they like my money!"

That's all that I can reveal for now. If you want more, it's just 3 easy payments of $49.95 (paypal add 10%, bitches).

Here's the list:

1. pvmike
2. nsxnick
3. tamoske
4. nsxgod
5.
6.

Join now!

Looks like Tom Vu has moved onto another career.
http://www.bluffmagazine.com/players/tommy-vu/1276/player-profile.asp
 
I thought he's a pimp?!! :biggrin::biggrin:

... but seriously knowledge and experience is extremely valuable. I might be in a different part of the world but willing to learn and I'm sure it's adaptable. Myself considering options around the regions but timing and finding the right location, now that's something which I'm still learning.
 
I would love to learn from a guru like Steve. Shit, I would be willing to pay.
I was just searching around last week, and the banks are starting to let go of some properties in bad areas for the price of a nice sports car. IMO, we're in, or about to be in, an opportunity of a lifetime.
 
If Steve wants to divulge his proprietary secrets :wink:, I think the single most important piece of advice would be:

Cash flow cushion %:
Gross rental income / (mortgage costs + ROE for downpayment)


I admittedly don't know squat about RE investing, but this is the key figure. During boom times, most R/E investors didn't mind having negative cash flow because they expected capital gains to be where they made money (false premise). Many many folks will figure that as long as monthly cash flow = mortgage payment/taxes, then it's a good deal (untrue b/c of unexpected repairs, tax increases, lost rental income, etc). Some people may do "ok" if they leave, say, a 10% cash flow cushion to compensate for these costs, but are still basically relying on capital gains to make money. Steve probably has a cash flow cushion expectation >30%, leaving lots of room for problems/error and no need for capital gains to make money. However, finding those deals is difficult and that is where having great investing discipline comes into play.
 
Great thread and very timely (personally) for me.

A certain someone I know was recently tasked with turning around a fledgling land development and property management company. This certain someone doesn't know a whole lot about the intracacies of these industries but has a lot of assets (undeveloped land) to sell or trade (via 1031 exchanges) and would like some advice on determining the validity of future real estate investments.
 
Just noticed this thread. I have been doing a work up on a new set of townhouses and have been pretty busy.

Most of the posts above are pretty accurate. It's just plain old fashion investing and hard work. It's about knowing the right people AND knowing the wrong people and to stay away from the wrong ones. Before I do business with anyone I do a through background check, still people get through my filters. Once you have that kind of stink on you it doesn't wash off. There are a lot of bad characters involved in RE. Most of them are getting shaken loose from the woodwork now that the economy is so bad.

Keeping it all together is not as easy as it appears. It takes a lot of hard work and effort and the learning curve is STEEP to say the least. I have seen a lot of people get blown out of the water or be steered in the wrong direction by unscrupulous people. It's really sad what people will do for money.

I don't charge a dime to set people up with deals and I don't make a dime from the deal itself either. This is rare. Most people will charge to "coach" you. Watch out for these people as what they are really doing is getting you in the psychiatrist chair and then having sex with you after they convince you it's the right thing to do. At the end of it all, all you really got was screwed.

I have been solicited by many organizations and individuals to do coaching, and it pays big but it doesn't sit well with me. Just remember at the end of the day you have to lay down in bed and you have to be OK with who you are and what you've done. If you have a conscience you won't get much sleep.

Test people. I learned this from my friends and family who are involved in Law Enforcement. Send someone into a situation where you know all the parameters and see if they lie or cheat. If they do, get rid of them. Don't carry dead weight. Don't think they might have made a mistake. Go with your gut feeling. Kind of like an undercover sting operation. Go to one of your properties and throw the breaker off to the furnace then call a repair place. Find out who tells you it's just the breaker and who tells you the whole unit needs to be replaced. Get rid of the latter and don't ever call him back.

Watch people, see what others do. Learn from them. Mostly so you know how to do what they do. Not because you will have time to do it but so you will have knowledge that it gets done correctly and cheaply every time it comes up in the future.

Be good to people regardless of how they are to you. Treat everyone with respect. Put yourself in their shoes. The other day I was relaxing and I watched my daughter peel a piece of paint off the wall. She doesn't know any better than one of the tenants children. That's why there are laws and codes. Some people wouldn't care what happens to others. Care what happens to other people. Have empathy. It's a good trait and it comes back around to you.

Be a prick when you need to be. Put people in their place. Don't let people push you around. You have to be firm because once someone gets away with something they will do it again. This trait doesn't have any social or financial barriers.

Don't be argumentative but be ready to stand firm if you feel you are right. Remember the other person feels they are correct too. Be ready to show them how they are mistaken.

Evict on the 5th, no excuses. Don't give out breaks. No one appreciates anything they get for free. Most people will laugh about how they got one over on you and then tell all their friends.

Don't accept an opportunity to lose for future gains. 99.9% of the time you are losing so you can lose more in the future.

Be reliable. Put work first. Whatever you put first you will do very well at. If you want to be a landlord don't think for a minute you are going to be able to do what you want when you want. It doesn't work that way.
Yesterday I had this guy here to tune all my TV's for a better picture, he did a great job. He charged 750 bucks for his day. Pretty good living if he could get that much work everyday but he doesn't. I called everyone in the phonebook and on craigslist on SUNDAY. He was the only guy who answered the phone. He put work first and got 750 bucks for doing so. Around 5:30 he is finishing up. BOOM my phone blows up. Fridge down, the TV guy wants to get paid, Washer down, Lobster ordered and on it's way, my buddy is over for dinner. What do I do, go look at the fridge. It's my job. Just like a doctor who is on call it's the same thing except I am ALWAYS on call. It never subsides.

And that is why most people don't make it in RE or any other business. They would rather sit down and eat the lobster, or go to the ball game or it's Sunday. It's always important to me to make sure the business comes first. With dedication like that you can make money selling ice cubes at the south pole. Dedication like that isn't cheap either. You are going to the ball game on Sunday and your client can't get a hold of you, well he CAN get a hold of me and give me the problem he wants to get off his hands so that HE can go to the ball game. Well everyone can have fun at the ball game, I have things to do, things that pay money!

Find people with all the above traits. They are few of them out there and most of the ones out there won't last long. I have had people tell me I am like a machine programed to get it done.

I don't do much of the physical work anymore. I am 43 now and have worked hard enough. Finding people to put in the kind of effort I put in is near impossible.

Any specific questions?
 
Great thread and very timely (personally) for me.

A certain someone I know was recently tasked with turning around a fledgling land development and property management company. This certain someone doesn't know a whole lot about the intracacies of these industries but has a lot of assets (undeveloped land) to sell or trade (via 1031 exchanges) and would like some advice on determining the validity of future real estate investments.

Anything in major metro area, 100-200 residental units or 100k plus office space?
 
Any specific questions?
yes (and thanks for asking :)

i may have an opportunity to buy an older home, in relatively poor condition, that is very close to my home. (the elderly lady who owns the home has now moved back to the midwest to live with her sister, leaving the house vacant. i'm in contact with her sister, who is in the process of becoming conservator of her sister.) i'm thinking of using (1) using this as a rental and / or (2) turning it quickly / over a period of time as a scraper.

what 3 things should i be aware of before making an offer for this property? i'm thinking along the lines of past-due taxes, mortgages, liens, etc, but would appreciate specifics you would suggest.

i realize you've got a full life goin', steve, so answer as you have time.

thx,
hal
 
steveny said:
Anything in major metro area, 100-200 residental units or 100k plus office space?

California beach and ranch property. Sitting on the beach properties until the market improves. As it stands now, I have buyers/traders but at a 50% (or close to) discount - too bitter a financial pill to swallow.

Tentative tract map for the ranch property (5 lots on 30 acres with ocean views) approved by the county so all anyone would need to do is start the build. Don't have the capital and getting financing sure is tough now. Got anything you want to trade? ;)

FTW, I've used PropertyTracker.com software to evaluate investment property so far. Seems to be pretty good.
 
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yes (and thanks for asking :)

i may have an opportunity to buy an older home, in relatively poor condition, that is very close to my home. (the elderly lady who owns the home has now moved back to the midwest to live with her sister, leaving the house vacant. i'm in contact with her sister, who is in the process of becoming conservator of her sister.) i'm thinking of using (1) using this as a rental and / or (2) turning it quickly / over a period of time as a scraper.

what 3 things should i be aware of before making an offer for this property? i'm thinking along the lines of past-due taxes, mortgages, liens, etc, but would appreciate specifics you would suggest.

i realize you've got a full life goin', steve, so answer as you have time.

thx,
hal

Look at comparable that are in the same condition as the house is currently in. Then offer 20% less than the comparable price.

Look at houses that are comparable which are repaired and ready to go. Then be ready to list your house repaired for 20% less.

Get competitive bids for repairs. Add 20% to the highest one and expect to pay that amount. Add that amount to the price you are paying for the property then subtract 20%. If you don't come out with the right number walk away. No sense in spending time and not making money.

If you lost money in the market last year you can flip the house and offset the gains against the losses in the market as long as no one lives in the house and you don't rent it. This is per my accountant.

Use an attorney, they are cheap compared to the cost of not using one.

If you are concerned then buy title insurance. It's relatively inexpensive compared to what problems with the title will cost.

Here is a horrible story.

My friend is Cambodian. He saw what I was doing with RE and thought he would like to try it himself. He is a factory employee.

He bought a house at county auction. His own home is paid in full. He got a HELOC on his own home. Paid for the run down place, but with a great location next to Cornell on the golf course. He goes in and starts to look the place over. He paid 150k and IMO the place needs 100k in work. No biggie as the place is probably worth 450k if I fixed it up. He has me come over and check the place out. I give him a bid to fix it up. HE is cleaning the place out separating all the trash, metal, new papers, etc. This place is STACKED with junk form 100 years ago, no joke. Well I tell him that's his first mistake. Just get some huge dumpsters in there and load them up FAST. He screws around for weeks cleaning the place out wasting 3 months, three months of carry cost that are more than 3-4 dumpsters would have been.
So he decides he is going to do the work himself. I guess my 100k bid was too high, I though it was a damn good deal. He rips the roof off. The police show up. The county didn't take the house back properly for back taxes. He is arrested and sued for taking the roof off and throwing out all the crap in the house AND has no proof of what was there as he didn't take any photos.

He doesn't speak very good English so the system has a bunch of fun with him. He goes to jail. Has a record. He is now fighting it but can't set foot back on the property or he will be arrested again. He has to continue to make the payments or he will lose his own home. He is screwed.

To top it off, he just got laid off at work last month.

Know what you are getting into and what the hell you are doing before you do it.
 
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