NSXGMS said:
I'm not sure if this is directed toward me, but I never said the new NSX has to "outperform" a Gallardo. I brought it up because I think it's the Gallardo buyer that Honda has to sway. And I also brought it up relative to its sales figures. Believe me, I know the Lambo and Honda are not even in the same ballpark.
Then why do you continue to talk about Honda swaying buyers who aren't even in the same ballpark? There is NO intersection between Honda buyers and Lamborghini buyers.
I think you're right on with keeping this car a Honda. Use the Honda badge to your advantage. It's BAR Honda, not BAR Acura. But don't call it an S-4000 or anything like that. People will think it's the new S2000! Don't tie it to any existing model, including the old NSX! Just tie it to Honda.
Well, in 1986, "Honda" was seen as insufficient to sell a Legend. The Germans were fat and out of shape then, but none of the japlux mfrs truly crossed the gap to be in their echelon.
I think you're right about aiming for ZO6 performance. Because ZO6 performance is essentially F430 performance!
In a straight line, yes. The Ferrari has a 4.3L engine, high revs, lots of exotic materials, etc. Sure, so does the Z06, but everything is way scaled back and it's flimsy and the interior is cheap. Biggest difference is the engine.
You are correct that a new NSX won't sell at Ferrari or Porsche money, but be more specific. F money is 190K. P money is 120K (Carrera's even less), so where are you referring to?
Use the operator "or" here. It won't sell for F money OR P money.
But liftshard, do you really think Honda can actually try to sell a "perfect" car at $50,000? I feel that's totally unrealistic. Why not just sell it at 39K and go for ridiculous volume?
That's my POINT. It IS ridiculous to expect Honda to make a perfect car that can do everything the F430 can do at 1/3 the price. Honda needs to pick its opponents better. This isn't 1991.
I think even though the price must be low, you've got to keep it high enough to keep a little dignity. Many people who buy 100K cars want others to know what they paid...I don't think you have this wih the ZO6 because you probably can't convince anyone you paid 70,000 for a corvette. It's going to sell OK b/c of ridiculously good performance and word of mouth.
Nobody who buys $100k cars wants others to know they bought a HONDA. That IS the problem here.
If you want to go low, go real low. Otherwise, keep it at <100K and let the chips fall. Honda's goal here needs to be to break even. A smashing success to me would be not losing a lot of money. This is not their bread and butter. This is a halo car. This is not a profitable car in direct way, so just do what you have to do to break even and call it a day.
Halo car?!!?! There was NO HALO from the ORIGINAL Halo car! Honda WILL NOT get a halo here from another NSX. The 350Z is Nissan's "halo" car. It's a lot smaller Halo, but Honda's got to be realistic in NA.
If Lambo's making money w/ the Gallardo, then the NSX should certainly break even *If done right*
Huh? Stop bringing up Lamborghini. They aren't even in the same BALLPARK, remember? VW is making money with the Gallardo because they are selling a VW car under another's name to get the goodwill and prestige associated with it. This is why trademarks are valuable.
The problem here is that, after about 70 or 80k, performance CEASES to be the dominant criterion in the purchase equation. Like how, after about 30mph, rolling resistance gets passed by drag. And, prestige, like drag, is a square law figure. At 100mph, you can ignore rolling friction. It's negligible. At $200,000, you can ignore performance. Sure, all cars there are "fast," but the Z06 smokes every one of them. You got DB9s and other cars which are barely faster, if at all, than a base C6. Big MBs, Bentleys, etc. That's not the point. The point up above this range, RIGHT where Porsche's 911 begins, is prestige. The 911's *never* been the fastest. It's just been right where prestige starts dominating.
The Vette is the "American Porsche 911." Right? Watch that Top Gear C6 review again. It's OUR 911. The next NSX needs to be Japan's Corvette. This means, aim at that vehicle and either offer value with respect to it or outperform it at the same price point. Prior to the NSX, Honda thought they could just jump over the Vette and even Porsche and just skip to the #1 seed, Ferrari. No dice. Honda tried to leapfrog way out of class, up to Ferrari, and it didn't really work. The original NSX, kept as a Vette competitor would have accomplished what Honda needed to do. It would have been consistent with the ENTIRE jap premium segment, the Legend, Acura, all of it. A toehold at the lower end of the next higher prestigious segment. Had Honda done THAT, they could NOW be releasing a Porsche fighter or even a Ferrari fighter. You can't shortcut this stuff and try to rise above your station in one swoop. It just doesn't work.
The original NSX was the Japanese Ferrari and it was rebuked by the buying public. BMW's Z8 was rebuked too...it was a failure. Any entry by MB into a $150k+ segment will also be rebuked because they simply are overpriced up there. There are Continentals and such now and think about that - you're in a club, you have a MB CL65 or whatever and the other guy has a Continental GT or something. You say "Mercedes" he says "Bentley." Your car might cost more and be faster, but nobody cares. Everyone knows somebody who has a Benz, but a Bentley is otherworldly on name alone.
Honda is not aiming for Gallardo buyers; they have no SHOT at them. They should be aiming for Corvette buyers. Like I said, there are more gofast cars at $120k than at half that. The C6 is kind of there all by itself and there's enough room for a quality competitor. Just don't make the car so abstruse that nobody "gets it" except technerds and miamimermaid.
...which they may be. 
