When I visited Taiwan in 1996 for the first and only time, after moving to California in 1983, most of the older people would not speak to me because I don't speak the dialog. I found that to be somewhat ridiculous. I had problems asking for directions, and I was rejected by a cab driver after I told him I'm not Taiwanese. My cousin explained to me that the “natives” were doing every thing they can to push the “none-natives” away. It was to the point that people were having problems finding jobs. I'm talking about in Taipei! I did get a good kick out of it when I saw tourist from China lining up at the Chiang Kai Shek airport. Most of them citing the visiting reason "relatives."
Vance,
In a span of 24 years, you been back once. When your family left in 1983, the bond and love for the nation may not be the same. You guys may have left out of disappointment for the country, how you are brought up also have some effect on your view as well.
Your experience is very odd one and unfortunately a bad one. Your only trip obviously have an impact/effect in your view. It is understandable. Seem like the trip back in 1996 gave you a very bad taste in your mouth. I do not speak Taiwanese in public at all period (don't be sensitive please those 台湾語 lovers, just a personal choice, not disrespecting here), althrough I speak perfectly, never been treated bad by cab driver or anyone, never ran into problem once, never had problem ordering food at food vender either. People are extremely kind. I don't think I look native either, most usually thought I am from another country.
I visit every year. I did not leave until 1990s, my experience may be quite different than your, I had a lot of positive memories and experiences there. When you left at 1983. You did not get to experience many of the postive things happened a bit later on, many of the great food for that matter. Your love obviously is not in the same degree. 7+ year span is a lot (invention of Boba Milk tea, new anime, other new things, etc). During the period the improvment was just plat out dramatic. Good and bad experiences usually have effect on someone's view later on.
Listing to someone's his say/her say (your cousin) and able to come up with a judgement not 100% based on your own experience is ridicious one imho. You usually have very strong point of view, opinon and very convinced on just about everything you believe in. Yet, sometimes you listen and use what you heard towards your arguments without actual experience.
Don't get me wrong, but the reality of it is, as long as it is still labeled under ROC, you can't change the fact that all Taiwanese are still considered as Chinese. The intention of using the word "Taiwanese" has a different meaning then... Let's say "New Yorker, Texan, or California, etc." Until the day the province become a nation of its own, than yep, Taiwanese it is, but due to the currently political condition, I don't see that from happening...
Vance,
I got you right. I know exactly what you are trying to express and convince. This thread have been around for so long, timing of your responds seems dead on. The sticker in vain above may be offensive to some. It is just a joke man, if that is what ticked you off, no need. You are borned in Taiwan as well, that apply to you as well.
The "meaning of New Yorker, Texan" example is very F-up imho in my view. That is a nation/state comparison. Reality is that nation is a nation even if Chinese don't agree. In your view it maybe ok, because your obvious stand. Too bad you are born in Taiwan not China. As much as you want to deny, your Nationality is Taiwan (ROC) and it is recogonized throughout the world. Your and my trait/ethnicity are Chinese. Yes indeed, if that is what you trying to convince, happy?. Our nation is Taiwan or America, since we are both us citizens.
Passport and ID argument is a very weird one with contradiction. Look at Chinese passport then look at a Taiwanese passport. Two Chinas wth different name (PRC and ROC). You already know China will not allow the name of Taiwan alone. China obstruct Taiwan's participating international affairs (UN, etc). Remember ROC was represented in UN at one time. Republic of China's UN seat was taken over by the People's Republic of China in 1971. Civil War split up two Chinas as two different nations. It can still have a name with "China" on it. No less a nation.
You already know Taiwan is ran as its own independant country with complete no control from China. Political power is given by the people in Taiwan, not in China, currency, Army, etc, and rest of everything.
Read up on the Chinese Civil War between KMT and CPC. It is not Taiwanese couldn't do it. China will not allow it with obvious reasons. In my view Mainland China is part of this side of China (Taiwan):biggrin:. It is cool to have our own view and our view have no impact nore ability to change things.
If there is choice and freedom, in my view Taiwan should be independent. It technically have been for decades, no one can deny that. Not same situation as Hong Kong. The Chinese ethnicity remain the same. Respecting each ohter regardless of the view is very important.
This is I read/I hear, not personal experience, most likely wrong. At one time the military were equal. Taiwan had the chance of making a come back during Korean war and take back China. US did not allow it with intervention in the Taiwan Straits. I know you watch history channel, not a joke. Is the above true?
My impression of native when I was growing up was the 山地人, everyone else is the same to me. Never once I felt any different. In my view you are a Taiwanese with Chinese ethnicity. We are all the same. It is our trait/ethnicity. Last time I checked a lot of people from many Southeast Asian countries still call themselves Chinese. You can't change the ethnicity. In conclusion, if I put myself in your position based on your own personal experience, I totally agree with you. If you put yourself in my position with my experience, you will understand my view. Neither one of our view meant any harm or impact for anyone.
Calling ourselves Taiwanese or not. It is a personal freedom and a national pride. If you have no feeling for Taiwan you don't understand. I know sometimes people just uncontrollably "Guan"太多, but meant no harm. To my Japanese friends I say this "オレは台湾出身アメリカ国籍です”, they see Taiwan as a nation, no further explaination necessary ever. I can guarantee you that if I said I am 中国出身, they will be afraid with caution. You can call yourself a Chinese, American or anything you want. It is outside of my business. Others have freedoms as well regardless of your point of view.
