Theory on the Origins Of Reality

[downwiz2]

hres something i found on someone's blog....what do you think?

Theory On the Origins of Religion, and Logical Reasoning that God is Fiction.

By A Devoted Darwinist.​

God is fiction. Religion arose from our primal fears arising due to natural disasters such as thunderstorms, earthquakes, and many unexplainable events which occured early in the human civilization.

It was these natural disasters, which led to the idea of a devine, or "super-being," ultimately known as God. Realize that such idea of a divinity was achieved on the basis of weak understandings of science and the world at those earlier epochs of the human civilization.

For example, you are a stoneage man. All of sudden, shit breaks loose, and theres thunderstorms, volcanoes and shit. When all your villagers are killed, then you gotta blame something. You need to find a justification for such disasters. Thus, our natural instincts suggest the idea of a divinity. God. Because it was he who wiped out your town.

The previous example can be quite confusing, due to the justification of such disasters. However, let us say, no one gets hurt in your stoneage village, but large htunderbolts and noises erupt, which scares the shit out of all the people. Then eventually one person will come up and try to bring up an explanation for this weird phenomenon. This person who rises is a prototype of a scientist. One who tries to publicisize his/her beliefs or theory to others. Others soon follow, because what else can they find explanation for such thunders and lightnings.

You can only conlude our idea of divinity arose from events, to be more speicfic, natural phenomenons, in which there could be no reasonable, or scientific explanation at the beginning of civilization. Its reasonable to say that our image of God rose from our fear from mother nature.

HOWEVER! The fundamental purpose of religion is ultimately to find comfort in life! Once, a religion surpasses, or does not meet this fundamental purpose of religion, then it no longer serves its purpose, and it becomes a brain washing tool.

This theory is not to claim, that what others will believe in is false. This theory is a reasonable, and a scientific approach to the idea of God.

You can still believe in God, but through logical reasoning, its is easy to see that God resulted from emotional impulses from our ancestors, in which science did not exists nor which were significant enough to be realized by the religiously dominated groups of various cultures and civilizations.

 

[khappucino]

interesting point, but i think that the very assumption that you can use logic to come to the conclusion that 'god is fiction' is a gross misuse of the philosophy of science. since 'god' the idea is not practically quantifiable, you can't really disprove something that lies outside the scope of science.

that being said i think that Quantum Mechanics >> Evolution :biggrin:

 

[fifrules]

When all your villagers are killed, then you gotta blame something. You need to find a justification for such disasters. Thus, our natural instincts suggest the idea of a divinity. God. Because it was he who wiped out your town.

Most people who believe in God, including me, don't blame him for natural disasters. :wink:

 

[downwiz2]

after reading this i was interesting too

not necessarily blaming, but maybe the villager will look for an explanation for such natural disaster....but due to the age he lives in he cannot find explanation

even today, science fails to explain many phenomenal things in today. so theres still room for God.

i predict that one day, which will never come because we will kill each other in nuke war already, or a giant meteorite come and hits us(no Armagedon style stunt here!), science will basically provide answer to everything.

remember not all religion relates to god...ex like buddhism...it can be a cult or some sort of idolship

i agree, some parts of this paper is poorly written and leads to confusion. for instance "God is fiction"

of course god is someting that is not quantifiable nor qualitifiable...however this paper does explain that its natural human instinct to believe in divinity....and hence that divinity which we refer to God cannot be true.

btw an interesting math problem
i forgot the name but if someone knows that would be cool

apparently a philosopher proves the existence of god

consider the following series of sum
0 = 0 + 0 + 0 + ...
= (1 - 1) + (1 - 1) + (1 - 1) + ...
= 1 - 1 + 1 - 1 + 1 - 1 + ...
= 1 + (-1 + 1) + (-1 + 1) + (-1 + 1) + ...
= 1 + 0 + 0 + 0 + ...
= 1

Ubaldus, a Catholic Saint, felt that this proved the existence of God because "something has been created out of nothing."

 

[downwiz2]

interesting point, but i think that the very assumption that you can use logic to come to the conclusion that 'god is fiction' is a gross misuse of the philosophy of science. since 'god' the idea is not practically quantifiable, you can't really disprove something that lies outside the scope of science.

that being said i think that Quantum Mechanics >> Evolution :biggrin:

i think i prefer string theory....

evolution is undeniable....except in few schools in the states LOL.

 

[ncdogdoc]

i think i prefer string theory....

evolution is undeniable....except in few schools in the states LOL.

But most people do not understand the actual theory of evolution. It does not say we all came from a primordial soup, just that the strongest survive, so those genes get to be carried into the future.

Darwin never said our great grandparents were ameobas, just that individual characteristics of a species were altered over time to better fit their environment, and allow them to reproduce and therefore continue their genetics.

Read the first couple of chapters of Genesis. If that is not a road map of what the "evolutionists" believe, then what is.

Just as an aside, if evolution is truly the only game in town, then how do genetics that prevent reproduction continue to this day, such as homosexuality. Just stirring the pot a little bit.

 

[BD]

You guys will jump on me, but it's cool, since this is "off topic." and the can of worm was open. First off, I assumed this God we’re talking about modern day Christian based.

People believes in God is based strictly on Faith; at least that's how I view it. As a Christian (well, a half ass one), there is no reason to believe in God if he is not tangible... We based on a lots of decision based on - see, hear, feel, smell. Most of us will not buy things if we haven't seen it. Since we are on the NSX forum, I can use the NSX as an example. I’m sure most of agreed this is one awesome car, but most people are not believers, even though this car went from theory to proven reality, and the most “righteous” (Car presses) agreed. Very much all of the non-believers have never driven the car, and based on the published numbers. Corvette has more HP, and it is half the price; therefore, it must be better!

By believe in God, people will act with accountabilities, do the “right” thing, work towards a better future, and care more for others, etc..

Liberals have tried to abolish "God" everywhere in this country; by forgo the concept of “fear of God,” there will not longer be accountabilities. To accuse all non-God believers of unrighteous is an unfair thing to do, but many of them fits the stereotype.

Last presidential election is one of the best examples. Bush’s victory was not based on his religious believe, but based on his Christian value. His actions were based on the concept of “build a better tomorrow.” However, Liberals have attacked him as war hunger, corporation friendly, and buddy with the rich (tax cut for the rich), etc. A lot of his actions are based on the Christian value. Many voters saw that, and like it. Kerry on the other hand, couldn’t sell his liberal views. He couldn’t sell his value for the obvious reason. You cannot be buddies with the super liberal Ted Kennedy, divorced a millionaire wife for a billionaire wife, support ACLU, etc. Majority of the people didn’t like that. In away, entities such as ACLU should spend their time to protect the poor, improve living standards, people’s rights as “Americans.” But they spend all their time and money on removing God from everything, protecting sex offenders, child molesters, criminals who have not money to defend them self, and challenge any form of accountabilities – that, we as American, should be held accountable. If they know God exist, do you think they will challenge the all-might one?

A little spin off here, non-God believers such as democrats killed their chance of winning every election when the liberal Supreme Court allowed abortion. This is one the biggest “near sighted” blunder they have ever committed. All of the aborted fetuses could have made up for all of the missing votes. Under Christian God value, that will not happen.

So here is the eternal question, does God exist, we will find out when he return to us as indicated in the bible. If that doesn’t happen, suck to be God believers. If he does, who ever challenge him by using scientific method will… be sorry?

Don't forget, Genius such as Albert Einstein flat out said there is an unforeseen force we will never understand. It is beyond our comprehension. This powerful force is God.

 

[sgvnsxrated]

Of all people I'm probably the most skeptical when it comes to the belief of "God." But because I'm not a believer doesn't warrant the fact there may be higher beings.

For example... I may have heard this from a movie somewhere.

With all our great technology, cars, computers, internet, cell phones, etc etc, could we ever expect a roach or any insect for that matter to understand? Does this mean that we humans are higher beings? Depends on the eye of the beholder.

Who's to say that earth, our galaxy, the universe etc etc isn't the work of higher beings and that we as humans just don't and probably won't ever have the capacity to understand.

 

[avalon96]

By believe in God, people will act with accountabilities, do the “right” thing, work towards a better future, and care more for others, etc..

No. Religion has started more wars and instilled more hatred than any other phenomenon known to mankind (e.g. race, gender, sexual orientation). Let's not forget about the inquisition or the crusade. Just think about the current religious wars being fought today.

"Man never does evil so completely and so contently as with religious conviction"

-Blaise Pascal

 

[avalon96]

I totally respect a person's right to his or her OWN religion (i.e. I respect all religions just as I respect the scientific method). However, when one religion starts saying that all other religions are going to hell or are of an evil nature (this is how wars/genocides are started) -- then I just don't know what to say.

If you are still waiting for the second coming...

 

[BD]

No. Religion has started more wars and instilled more hatred than any other phenomenon known to mankind (e.g. race, gender, sexual orientation). Let's not forget about the inquisition or the crusade. Just think about the current religious wars being fought today.

"Man never does evil so completely and so contently as with religious conviction"

-Blaise Pascal

You proved a good point. People will kill in the name of God – by using their own interpretation. Unfortunately, I do not believe Jesus instructed people to commit such an act, but "man" interprets it differently with their own selfish reasons. Imagine five hundred years ago, the only thing most people know about God is what the priest have taught them, because they cannot read or write. Islamic culture is like that today, because most of them learn that they heard from the religious leaders. Until the literacy rate is improved, the Islamic culture will continue to stay in a dark age. Modern day Christians don't go out there a suicide bomb the innocents. They don't fly the jumbo jet into crowded buildings, and they don't kill women because they wear unaccepted clothes and make up, just because their religious leader told them so.

Also, the evolution of the Islamic culture is really about five hundred years behind Western Christian culture. I mentioned the literacy rate, and also due to the poor living environment they can't get out of. Many have been brain washed by the radical teaching when they were young, and if all the kids can see while growing up is war and terror, they will act accordingly when they grow up. You can see wealthy Arab nations such as Kuwait, Bahrain, UAE, the people of these countries are too busy spending their oil money - by driving nice cars, buying ocean front condos, shopping for expensive cloth/jewelries, and take nice vacations - just like us. Brutal regions such as Iran, old Iraq, Syria, etc, are still living in the past, and the citizens of these nations have nothing to look forward to tomorrow. Saddam used to offered Suicide bomber $25,000 grand so after he dies, his family can live well for a long time. In our eyes, $25 grand is really nothing, but in that part of the world, $25 grand can sustain a whole family financially for decades.

Unfortunately, many have used religion as a tool to accomplish their personal goal. That is why cults exist. In a way, the original post of this threat is right, because people join these religious groups because they have a empty life, and they needed that in order to fulfill their mind.

So here is another question. If a person refuse to believe in God, what do they have other than material goods, some times - empty love. By no means every non-God believers ended up in nasty divorce and have an upside down life, but the rate is much greater than Christian couple/family. A standard traditional guideline is a good thing to have, because if individual of started to interpret and live through his/her own guidelines, things don’t always turn out good at the end, after all, we’re human being, and we make mistakes.

How often do you heard people saying “I have faith in you,” because the person who used this phrase have confident in another person; however, this person might not always come through. Therefore, does God exist? People with faith will tell you “Yes,” because they have confident in what they believe in. If you observe a Christian that follows the word of bible, they often live a very happy and fruitful life. It’s that confidence derived from their faith, which gave them the attitude of “things will work out, life is good, and it’s good to be alive because “he” is watching over our shoulder.” Since I mentioned from the previous post identifying my self as a half ass Christian, I am contempt with my life, and majority of the people can’t say that, because they often struggle with life and can’t figure out why. There are plenty of emptiness in their heart.

Dude, feels like writing a paper for a region class. Long ass essay I just wrote

 

[C-speed]

Hmm i usually lurk, but I'll voice my $0.02 even though I don't want to get into (another) heated discussion about religion.. but anyways, here goes:

But most people do not understand the actual theory of evolution. It does not say we all came from a primordial soup, just that the strongest survive, so those genes get to be carried into the future.

"Evolution" and "survival of the fittest" are completely seperate theories, the latter being the fundemental part of Darwinism. In a nutshell, "evolution" states that animals evolve due to circumstances in the environement and that somehow all species are inter-related to a single couple (parents). However the fundemental flaw with the theory of evolution is that there is the "Missing Link" which until today has not been discovered that any 2 distinct species have ever evolved from a common set of parents. ie: a fish eventuall becoming a horse. The DNS of a fish and horse are complete different and in now way could have possibly evolved one from the other.

Evolution however amonst similar species DOES occur.. ie: a monkey/apes becoming human.

Darwinism simply states "survival of the fittest" which does hold water, but again it fails to definately prove to be the truth also because of the "Missing Link" theory.

Just as an aside, if evolution is truly the only game in town, then how do genetics that prevent reproduction continue to this day, such as homosexuality. Just stirring the pot a little bit.

Again, not true. It is a common misconception that homosexuality is genetic. It is not. There are many scientific reasons that prove it is not that you can easily google for. I will quickly state a few here... ie: there are some people that claim to be homosexual and they are also twins, triplets, etc... if it were homosexuality were genetic, then both twins or all the triplets would also be homosexual, however the majority of the time, only one of the two twins (or triplets) is homosexual.

Secondly, since heterosexuality is the "norm", then heterosexuality would be a dominant gene and thus it would make homosexuality not the norm, thus homosexuality would be a resessive gene (if we were under the pretense that it is genetic). With that said, since modern society does not practice incest (anymore), resessive genes are generally lost from generation to generation just like having red hair or heart disease or physical mutations.

So anyways, I don't necessarily believe in God myself as I am a very logical and scientifically minded person, however IMO, whatever science (currently) cannot prove or disprove leaves to religion (ie: the creation of the universe... not the big bang, but what/who started the big bang and where all the matter came from in the first place). So in that sense, I do believe in God.

nuff said

 

[ADNOH]

btw an interesting math problem
i forgot the name but if someone knows that would be cool

apparently a philosopher proves the existence of god

consider the following series of sum
0 = 0 + 0 + 0 + ...
= (1 - 1) + (1 - 1) + (1 - 1) + ...
= 1 - 1 + 1 - 1 + 1 - 1 + ...
= 1 + (-1 + 1) + (-1 + 1) + (-1 + 1) + ...
= 1 + 0 + 0 + 0 + ...
= 1

Ubaldus, a Catholic Saint, felt that this proved the existence of God because "something has been created out of nothing."

Apparently that catholic saint probably did not understand calculus to see that the philosopher's reasoning is wrong. nothing = nothing

 

[gheba_nsx]

consider the following series of sum
0 = 0 + 0 + 0 + ...
= (1 - 1) + (1 - 1) + (1 - 1) + ...
= 1 - 1 + 1 - 1 + 1 - 1 + ...
= 1 + (-1 + 1) + (-1 + 1) + (-1 + 1) + ...
= 1 + 0 + 0 + 0 + ...
= 1

Ubaldus, a Catholic Saint, felt that this proved the existence of God because "something has been created out of nothing."

Alternate series do not converge... I think this Ubaldus was a bit shaky in mathematic... and what is more important the series are infinite and he consdiders them finite in his assumptions.

 

[avalon96]

"Evolution" and "survival of the fittest" are completely seperate theories, the latter being the fundemental part of Darwinism. In a nutshell, "evolution" states that animals evolve due to circumstances in the environement and that somehow all species are inter-related to a single couple (parents). However the fundemental flaw with the theory of evolution is that there is the "Missing Link" which until today has not been discovered that any 2 distinct species have ever evolved from a common set of parents. ie: a fish eventuall becoming a horse. The DNS of a fish and horse are complete different and in now way could have possibly evolved one from the other.

Evolution however amonst similar species DOES occur.. ie: a monkey/apes becoming human.

LOL.

 

[donwon]

For example, you are a stoneage man. All of sudden, shit breaks loose, and theres thunderstorms, volcanoes and shit. When all your villagers are killed, then you gotta blame something. You need to find a justification for such disasters. Thus, our natural instincts suggest the idea of a divinity. God. Because it was he who wiped out your town.

Eh, personally, I think its a weak arguement redardless of what you believe. So why not blame science instead of God? This sounds like a familiar scenario. Katrina, Indonesia, 9/11. Yeah there was looting but I didnt see too many people looking to point a finger or shaking their fists at God. What I saw was alot of people realizing a tragedy had happened, working together for the common benefit who normally would not have. What I saw was people whos lives have been changed, get a glimpse of what is really important and thank God they were alive. I'm pretty sure people who personally experienced those disasters have a much different outlook on life.

So if God came from blame, then how come religion became more public after these events? How come there were so many references to God during personal interviews? How come so many people contributed time, money, and effort to help others out if they by natural intincts " need to be justified" in blaming something.

 

[downwiz2]

ya about that series, my calc prof was showing it to us and telling us to explain...hahaha we had a good laugh at that :biggrin:

so NSX = demigod

 

[downwiz2]

Eh, personally, I think its a weak arguement redardless of what you believe. So why not blame science instead of God? This sounds like a familiar scenario. Katrina, Indonesia, 9/11. Yeah there was looting but I didnt see too many people looking to point a finger or shaking their fists at God. What I saw was alot of people realizing a tragedy had happened, working together for the common benefit who normally would not have. What I saw was people whos lives have been changed, get a glimpse of what is really important and thank God they were alive. I'm pretty sure people who personally experienced those disasters have a much different outlook on life.

So if God came from blame, then how come religion became more public after these events? How come there were so many references to God during personal interviews? How come so many people contributed time, money, and effort to help others out if they by natural intincts " need to be justified" in blaming something.

i apologize for not making it clearer. as i pointed, such example in this paper is very poorly written

the main argument is to explore how and where religion started, and what caused it (our primal fear of the unexplained). I think the paper is not strong enough to argue whether God exists or not.....

i personally think God exists to those who believe it. Reality is purely based on your perception.

 

[blackcat]

Claim: The Bible is the "absolute proof" and word of God handed down to the earth.

If you ever see pictures of Jesus he looks rather Anglo Saxon. If Jesus was born from Mary and Joseph (who were of Jewish descent) wouldn't he look completely different from the pictures depicted of him currently????

It is strange how civilization changes history to fit their needs. Just like the heathen American Indians who practice the "wrong" religion and the "educated" white man must civilize him and give him the "correct" religion.

Religion has been used to control the masses for centuries.

 

[NsSeX]

While we're on the topic of religion:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060324/ap_on_re_us/pastor_slain

So much for believing in God

 

[downwiz2]

crazy....but u know this world is crazy

just the other day, i was sitting in dining hall on my campus, studying, then suddenly, out of nowhere, a middle aged korean man sits in my table. then he asks me "have you been to church before"

"no. im not interested in religion"

"oh its a shame. my god! you have sinned for not going to church."

i knew this was one crazy mofo, so i just smiled and let him lecture me on life, and God.....like i give a shit what he has to say

then he tries converting me and persuade me into joining the christian club in campus. i say "i will consider" and walk away.

not only did he rudely interupt me while i was studying, but he told me "i had sinned because i had not gone to church."

I wanted to tell him "who the fuck are you to tell me i've sinned or not." but he looked very poor and old, so i didn't.

crazy zealots like him is one of the reasons i don't go to church. i have in the past, but i don't htink i will going anytime soon. i have nothing against christianity, muslims, and any other religion....its just these people with a perverted view on their religion....the pure inner arrogance that disgusts me...

religion is good if you seek comfort, but once it gets past that.....its poison.

just my rants don't take it seriously or feel offended.

 

[downwiz2]

No. Religion has started more wars and instilled more hatred than any other phenomenon known to mankind (e.g. race, gender, sexual orientation). Let's not forget about the inquisition or the crusade. Just think about the current religious wars being fought today.

"Man never does evil so completely and so contently as with religious conviction"

-Blaise Pascal

you read my mind. :smile:

 

[710]

Did you know that priests were considered “scientists” in the old days?

 

[avalon96]

Did you know that priests were considered “scientists” in the old days?

Gregor Mendel, who founded or spearheaded the theory of heredity, was a monk. Priests were not considered scientists -- they were scientists. Mendel used flowers as his subjects and cross-bred them to study genetics (at a rather elementary level).

The Dali Lama, the Vatican, etc. are all interested in the newest scientific findings. They actually have seminars with professors (e.g. neuroscience, biology, etc.) to learn about the newest findings about our understanding of the world. They themselves seem to have an open mind -- yet they don't widely publicize these findings because it would likely shake up their followers who follow full-heartedly.

People once believed the earth was the center of the universe. Challengers to this idea were often excommunicated or even killed because it basically violated some religious fundamentals.

I hope no one still believes the earth is the center of the universe.

As science progresses, it is bound to debunk other religious beliefs (e.g. Adam and Eve, rising from the dead, etc.). I mean, it should have already done so, but for the stubborn, I guess we need even more evidence.

This doesn't necessarily mean you have to stop practicing your religion. It just means you should accept the truths we have scientifically proven thus far.

We need to stop holding on to antiquidated beliefs just because someone started some crazy story thousands of years ago (just like someone in the church said the earth was the center of the universe). You can still very much be a spiritual/religious person while accepting the truth. I mean, now that we know our universe is vast and the Earth is only one grain of sand on this infinite beach, we can appreciate a Creator even more so than we could before (i.e. before he just created Man and Earth, now, if you believe in a creator, he is responsible for an infinite universe). Most importantly, we need to have respect for eachother as human beings and let each person choose his or her OWN beliefs.

Veritas.

 

[BD]

The problem is, theory is to be proven to become fact. Evolution is one theory that is not fully proven. Therefore, it's not yet a fact. I'm having problem believing the champ I see in the zoon is where my ancester derived from, but that's my two cents.

Religion, again as I indicated from previous posts, is believe in faith; therefore, you cannot prove faith, that is why "God" is not a tangible person, well, at least not for 2000 years when Jesus walked the earth. That is why Christians world wide is waiting for the Second Coming of God. The interesting thing is, when Jesus walked the earth, he was a tangible, but people still doubt him. There will always be non-believers, regardless what you tell them. That is why no matter what you teach in school, people will continue against doing the right thing.

As for some posts of "Priests were scientist back in the days, earth were flat" etc. It is because literacy level was low, and people ask them to explain the unknown. That is why the Vatican always change their laws when theories were proven. That doesn't means they are bunch of bone heads who just want things their way. Than again, many people used God as a tool to accomplish their personal goals, that is why we have wars based off religions.