Value of service records - or lack thereof

[eric_n_dfw]

I'm new to NSX shopping and am learning a ton from this site, thanks for all that.

My question is in regards to the value of complete service records. Given two NSX's of similar year, miles, condition, etc but one has detailed service records and the other doesn't, how much of a premium do you think the records add? I'm thinking it's at least the cost of replacing things like timing belt, snap ring (if in range), etc.

What are your thoughts?

PS: I searched and didn't find a thread on this topic, please point me to it if one exists.

 

[NSX_n00b]

What are your thoughts?

One thing I did was run the CarFax on the car I ultimately purchased and see if it had any service entries. I had service records from the current owner but those only went back 2 years. The service entries on CarFax pointed to the fact the car had service done at a couple of dealerships. I called the dealerships' service departments and gave them the VIN and had them email me copies of the service records they still had (only went back 10 years).

Just my $.02 if you're down to two cars and want to try and level the playing field a bit.

 

[eric_n_dfw]

Let's say I try that but don't find any conclusive info. What's the going rate for a timing belt + water pump service now-a-days? Same with the snap ring?

 

[Honcho]

Let's say I try that but don't find any conclusive info. What's the going rate for a timing belt + water pump service now-a-days? Same with the snap ring?

TB/WP varies wildly depending on the service center. Figure $2,500 to $4,000 is a good range.

Snap ring service is basically a new transmission case (~$900) plus labor and minor parts. At least $2,000 for the whole deal.

These cars are so old now that, in my opinion, service records can be a helpful tool. It may be a Honda, but the NSX wears out like any other car. Parts can be pricey and there are many aging systems on these cars that will likely need attention. HVAC, ABS, brake calipers, gauge cluster and CCU capacitors, audio system, EPS, window regulators, door seals, etc. Records showing some of these have been addressed already can save you thousands.

 

[goldNSX]

0-10k.

The service records of the last 5-10 years are relevant. The ones of 10+ years are interesting regarding unusual repairs. Having not a single record is possible as DIY is not uncommon on the NSX. Do a proper PPI.

Snap-ring failures have become rare just because a lot of them have already been repaired long ago.

 

[Old Guy]

Long term service records are a 'nice to have', primarily because they can be an indicator that the car was well cared for (or not) which can be a harbinger of future trouble reduced ownership. I agree with [MENTION=10201]goldNSX[/MENTION] that it is the last 5-10 years that have the greatest value because that will clear up the uncertainties about coolant changes, timing belt, brake & clutch fluid, brake pads, air & fuel filter ... all things that might have an immediate $ impact if you are thinking about long term ownership and are inclined to be concerned about that type of stuff. If you are inclined to be maintenance obsessive, I might assign a $ value up to 25% of the initial $ value of those maintenance records. This is conditioned by age - the only $ value of a record of a timing belt change 10 years ago is that it means that it is an immediate up-coming expenditure for you. If you are not a maintenance obsessive then the $ value of the records is probably nil.

For me, visual condition and a thorough PPI probably provide more value than those maintenance records. High surface wear on the interior and exterior, missing pieces / trim clips or damaged trim pieces can be a good indication of heavy use or lack of care and maintenance. Simple visual examination can spot things like grotty brake fluid and if you pop off the air filter cover and the air filter is covered in a heavy layer of dirt that is probably a pretty good indicator of other maintenance items. A more complete PPI by an experienced NSX tech can help to fill in the picture on the condition of the car in the absence of service records. An additional value factor would be the number of previous owners. A vehicle that has been turned over regularly may be an indication of a problematic car. Cars with long term ownership can be an indication that the owners were not of the use it up and move on category.

The items like CCU, window regulators ... I tend to lump into a normal ageing category. Not all cars will be affected by those problems (2000+ cars have a different ABS) and capacitor failure will be a function of the average operating temperature of the car. Recognize that you are looking at purchasing a car that will be 15 - 29 years in age. You should expect these problems even on a car with complete normal maintenance records.

 

[natcc99]

Agree with all the notes said above. Allow me to add my 2 cents.

As we all know, maintenance intervals are followed by either time or mileage. A car with low milage might have a 15+ yr old spark plugs for example. Without the records, you won't know how old things are and you're left guessing. As an example, let's say you want to change your timing belt. You mechanic may ask if you want to change your coolant hoses or transmission fluid as well since he is under your car. You records may show that they were recently changed and you can confidently push it back to another time.

Another item to consider is identifying aftermarket parts. Not all parts have their brand stamped on them. Having the records will help you identify them for research purposes or simply have an accurate description if you decided to sell the part(s).

Allow me to share my personal experience. My car had speed-bleeders installed. I heard about them, but never saw them before. When I was flushing my brake fluid, I was confused at what I saw. A quick check of the records helped me identify them and was able to finish the task without any issues.

Lastly, if you decide to sell the car. Having records may help the next buyer and save you the trouble of answering a bunch of questions.

Good luck with your purchase. Don't pay an arm and leg for good records, but I suggest take them in consideration when purchasing the car. Oh yes, a proper PPI is a always good call.

 

[jimmy-buffett]

Eric, I think you're thinking about it in the correct way. If the owner can't provide records of a recent TB/WP service, then those need to be done before you can safely enjoy the car. I would assume roughly half the price of a clutch job as well. Those are the big things, the rest are less expensive incidentals that a pre/post purchase inspection can identify.

 

[goldNSX]

Funny that this thread reminds me of a story I've heard a year ago where a new owner spent a full year to bring a so-called long-term owner car back on the road. He's spent more than 10k spent on it and was so frustrated in the end that he decided to sell it. Of course, the car looked very nice initially. The car hasn't been running for quite some years. A good indication is also the miles been driven per year because you only notice the failures when you drive it. Driving regularly = regular maintenance (with some exceptions of morons of course ). Not being driven = be prepared for...
On a nearly 30 years old car a serious TB/WP job also involves all gaskets and seals of the engine, so a low quote should not be the highest priority.
Back to the OP's initial question. The service records add up to around 1/2 to 2/3 of the sum of all repair bills to the value of the car, depending what has been done and who far back. A TB job done 10 years ago adds 0% of course.

 

[signalpuke]

I'm new to NSX shopping and am learning a ton from this site, thanks for all that.

My question is in regards to the value of complete service records. Given two NSX's of similar year, miles, condition, etc but one has detailed service records and the other doesn't, how much of a premium do you think the records add? I'm thinking it's at least the cost of replacing things like timing belt, snap ring (if in range), etc.

What are your thoughts?

PS: I searched and didn't find a thread on this topic, please point me to it if one exists.

I think it's a personal preference thing. Some people only trust the dealership to work on their garage queen, other people are not bothered with working on their daily driver. Maybe more valuable for a newer car recently (3-5 years) out of warranty. If you're looking at 25 year old cars that were driven, I'd expect that work had been done. Whether it was by the dealer or a shop, I'd talk to them and see what they know about the history of the car.

 

[bullithollywood]

Thorough service and maintenance records, scheduled and unscheduled, over a cars life show how it was cared for, how much the owner has "invested" into the longevity of the car and what high probability issues and preventative measures have or have not already been addressed. I think a car thats got detailed service and maintenance records will rightly carry a premium since they'll show in hard numbers and facts what kind of owner the seller was and possibly the biggest plus will be the "peace of mind" they'll confer. Seen too many new owners buy a undocumented car and start a painful journey of discovery because he didnt'/ couldn't know the cars true state, PPI or no. Unless you're mechanically minded and desire the cheapest car you can get with intentions of doing most your own work, or live close to a NSX guru, then a car with thorough records should be very high on your list of desired qualities.

 

[RacerXwing]

I attempt to track this as part of my valuation insights. I have observed the following value effects with the scale I've created:

-33% : Significant deferred maintenance, at least 2 major items due or visibly clear neglect
No Statistical impact : 1 major item due
No Statistical impact : Unknown or not mentioned
No Statistical impact : 1 major item done
+5% : At least 2 major items done
+15% : Extensive binders of history and maintenance by a known NSX Guru

Recognizing the limitations of my assessments being merely my judgement based on listing text and pictures, not intimate knowledge with the NSXs, as well as limited data for the first an last categories, I think there is enough to conclude a clear dependence of level of service on value, but only seen at the extreme ends in my data.

 

[Lude_2_NSX]

Service records have tangible value proving the work that has been done on the vehicle. The intangible value of service records is proof the the owner is taking the time to document everything about the car. That means they are more likely a better vehicle owner, and overall care of the vehicle was higher.