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Very cool jack system on NSX.....
- Thread starter DocL
- Start date
do you mean the air hose going into his ear ??? :biggrin: :biggrin:
- Joined
- 22 September 2005
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- 1,215
Well while working for Sahlens on there Rolex GT cup team I have watched them use small wooden blocks to raise there 2 vettes as well as there heavy gto. Over 100+ times. Never once had a problem. Seems pretty safe to me. Wood is very strong. We still build out houses out of it.:biggrin:
I think its a matter of the wood tipping.
I don't see a big problem with the wood blocks, especially if he has no intent to crawl under the car. The front block and the rear blocks face different directions so the blocks can't tip in unison if the car is pushed in any direction. Much ado about not much if you ask me.
I think it would be cool if the system malfunctioned and the jacks flew down to the pavement at 80MPH.
Yea that would suck if a competitor with a 20gallon compressed air tank in his car had someone jump onto your car with the air-jack 'wand' and deploy your airjacks while going 80mph
Who gives a rat's a$$ about blocks of wood... Holy Sh!t! It's Hugh!
Wow !!!
First of all I must ask... What in the world is going on in this discussion board?
Second, This is MY car.
Third, Thank You for all the kind words from most of you.
Fourth, the rest of you should all be ashamed of yourselves for such harsh comments.
It is really dissapointing that everything going on in these differnt posts, someone has to bash one another. The reality is that you are just showing your ignorance. So for that I feel sorry for you. Put down the X box.
I bought this car in Nov 99. In early 2001 I started to put together some mods. Unlike most though, as what I wanted was not on the store shelves (ie Comptech, dalli, etc)
I was driving open wheel cars a bit and the team had some parts that I could aquire at reasonable prices and get them modified to fit my car.
The team owner worked for Neuman Hass in the can am days and early indycar for Michael Andretti. He was their shock and suspension builder/expert.
I persuaded him to help me put together a suspension set up. I could not afford $1700 per shock cost for Penske's. So we built Koni's. We ordered the shock bodies, and shafts.
I knew that by lowering the car any suggnificant amound would make it impossible to get a floor jack under. We went to the parts trailer and sorted through airjacks and decided that the rears would better, as they had a larger piston, and would raise the car w/ a lower PSI. Calculating that the car would put less than 800lbs per corner, and the psi would be less that 300. The indy cars weigh in at less than 1700 max w/ fuel.
It was obvious that we didn't need all of the suspension travel of a daily driving NSX, W/ that being said, we shortened the shock shafts so as to minimize the "droop" when the car was on jacks and minimize the travel that the airjacks would need to travel. We needed "some" shcok travel and were careful to have enough for weight transfer, as we didn't want to "lift" a wheel at any time and have a wheel lock up under braking.
That being said, we ran the OEM shocks on a computer dyno to measure they high and low speed bump and rebound. We then revisited data from a car at Elkart Lake, Road America.
I called my friend who was running awell known orange and white car NSX in the mid west and got some data from a race set up NSX.
We then valved the shocks to optimize the best of both worlds (as best possible, if there is such a thing) and selected a set of springs again from the parts trailer. So fronts 800lbs springs and rear 500lbs springs. Yes this is stiffer that the springs that the rest of you buy from your "hot import tuner magazines" type.
The car is set up for mostly track, and is not very streetable. I drive it less that 300 miles a year. So it's kept nice. I'm sure several of you "haters" will bash that, but I can afford to do what I want, and you can do what you want.
This is just the direction I took w/ MY car, and I'm sure all of you can justify the way you all decide to take your own.
SO to answer a few questions or comments:
DocL, thanks for the post and kind words.
NSX PTY, I think I've answered your questions on shock travel.
KooLaid, You get 5 stars. You got it figured out. Again thanks for the nice comments.
Docjohn, No trickery. I don't have time to teach myself how to use photoshop.
BioBanker, You can buy the airjacks from AP racing. Then all you need to do is fabricate the mounts. I used the OEM tiedown locations in the rear, and have mounts right behind the radiator. They were hefty locations that would support the cars weight and still be acceptable for balance w/o stressing the chassis. When I built my set up, it was before anyone offered the airjacks for sale, so I had to be more creative. The pluming of the airlines is simple, first decide your manifold position, then run stainless braided lines.
It's takes about 260-280 psi. I use nitrogen. It's an inert gas and easily available. It's also great for inflating your tires as the temps will vary minimally. Of course you'll need a high pressure regulator and hose. I don't know about cost. $3K might buy the airjacks, the plumbing , wand etc will probably cost you closer to $4K, but to be honest I'm just guessing. My front airjacks have "dump valves" so that it dumps all the captured air in the manifold and lines immediately whan the wand is removed. This was the design for the indycar set up so as to get the car returned on the ground quickly and get the car back onto the track in minimal time. I'm not sure if the AP's have the dump valves. I bet it could be an option. Either way the air evacuating the system is quick, the weight of the car pressing on the sq area of piston has good force, the internal spring will pull the strut back into the retracted position.
UnhuZ and Others, You should know, that the term you use "coil over" IS incorrect. The length of "droop" has nothing to do w/ the springs, as you imply by using the term "coil-overs". It is purely the length of the shiney chrome shaft of the "shock/strut". I bought "parts" from Koni, and we shortened mine.
John@Microsoft, There you go. HRP is an outstanding source for racecar parts. Be careful if you use that kit, as those airjacks might not fit in your mounting locations. If you happened to use the same or similar locations that I did, it is very tight behind the radiator. And for the rear, I raised mine up a bit as I didn't want them to be sheered off when driving on the street. My rears don't actuate with enough "stroke" or travel to level the car when raised. And for me it was more important to have them not sheared off when driving on the street. I can always easily ad a quick connect "foot" or "shoe" on the bottom if that were an issue. It's an easy machine shop project. But for now the car Does completely clear the ground nicely, and the wheels can come off w/ no clearance problem. This is why I use differn't block thicknesses when raising the car to put it on jackstands, to maximize travel. Oh and as you've read, I use no delrin or cable stops, although as you mentioned, that could do the job too. (I doubt many on prime even know what it is).
Jim, Notice Dali has never completed this product, it's just a possible product if he Mark has interest. You can go to APracing and put together your own kit. There is still some engineering to accomplish to make it work properly.
jalnjr, KSXNSX, and others, Well I think widowmaker and other comments, are a bit negative, and I'm not sure why. You don't see anybody under the car, w/o saftey stands because the car is on it's way down as I just finished pulling them after powdercoating my wheels and brake calipers and replacing the brake master cylinder. Yep and for observant ones the torque wrench happens when the wheels are on the ground. It's the last step to complete the job. For your info, it's NOT balsa wood or play doh. What does it matter if there are blocks UNDER the feet of the airjack foot? Either way there is slightly less that 800 lbs +/- of force/ weight on the blocks. The car weight is approx 3K devided by 4. Follow? So how would the car be unstable? I guarntee you couldn't pull the blocks out or budge the car itself, even if you were a sumo wrestler. I'm glad that most of you have got a clue. The blocks of wood are under compression, they are flat. Any more discussion on this is purely ignorance. If it's important for you to continue on this, I think you should hang out on another web board w/ other teenagers. Maybe rethink going back to school or ponder why you shouldn't have cheated on all those tests when you Were in school.
jalnjr, I did appreciate the humor though. Nice photoshop work. I see from your work why you might be a have doubt. It would have been over the top if you would have added Mr. Bill or Homer Simpson etc, under the car...
Some of you should come down to reality and not post pictures of your imaginary world as your signature along w/ all the mods to your car, or next "dream" mods, Nobody cares about what cars you own either. It's SO high school.
Alient, Derek.. and long time friend. Thanks for the heads up on this rubbish. You and many others have seen the car at the Dallas NSX gatherings years ago, and helped many times get the car on jackstands and working properly along w/ many other things. I am entertained that w/ your insight to this post the continued ignorant comments. Thanks for the "original" levitation pic. LMAO. Obviously KSXNSX needs to put the Xbox down and get to the racetrack before showing his ignorance again.
CL65 CA, where are you based? pvt me. Recognize the rear blocks w/ rope. They're what's placed in front and rear of your tyres when you set the brakes at the gate. Yoda is perfect!! And your signature pic looks like a few PHL ramp crew. Thanks for adding the humor.
nsxtcy85, heySkippy, stuntman, and many of you,....5 stars to you as well. You've got it under wraps.
Again, thank you for all of the Kind words and comments.
david
First of all I must ask... What in the world is going on in this discussion board?
Second, This is MY car.
Third, Thank You for all the kind words from most of you.
Fourth, the rest of you should all be ashamed of yourselves for such harsh comments.
It is really dissapointing that everything going on in these differnt posts, someone has to bash one another. The reality is that you are just showing your ignorance. So for that I feel sorry for you. Put down the X box.
I bought this car in Nov 99. In early 2001 I started to put together some mods. Unlike most though, as what I wanted was not on the store shelves (ie Comptech, dalli, etc)
I was driving open wheel cars a bit and the team had some parts that I could aquire at reasonable prices and get them modified to fit my car.
The team owner worked for Neuman Hass in the can am days and early indycar for Michael Andretti. He was their shock and suspension builder/expert.
I persuaded him to help me put together a suspension set up. I could not afford $1700 per shock cost for Penske's. So we built Koni's. We ordered the shock bodies, and shafts.
I knew that by lowering the car any suggnificant amound would make it impossible to get a floor jack under. We went to the parts trailer and sorted through airjacks and decided that the rears would better, as they had a larger piston, and would raise the car w/ a lower PSI. Calculating that the car would put less than 800lbs per corner, and the psi would be less that 300. The indy cars weigh in at less than 1700 max w/ fuel.
It was obvious that we didn't need all of the suspension travel of a daily driving NSX, W/ that being said, we shortened the shock shafts so as to minimize the "droop" when the car was on jacks and minimize the travel that the airjacks would need to travel. We needed "some" shcok travel and were careful to have enough for weight transfer, as we didn't want to "lift" a wheel at any time and have a wheel lock up under braking.
That being said, we ran the OEM shocks on a computer dyno to measure they high and low speed bump and rebound. We then revisited data from a car at Elkart Lake, Road America.
I called my friend who was running awell known orange and white car NSX in the mid west and got some data from a race set up NSX.
We then valved the shocks to optimize the best of both worlds (as best possible, if there is such a thing) and selected a set of springs again from the parts trailer. So fronts 800lbs springs and rear 500lbs springs. Yes this is stiffer that the springs that the rest of you buy from your "hot import tuner magazines" type.
The car is set up for mostly track, and is not very streetable. I drive it less that 300 miles a year. So it's kept nice. I'm sure several of you "haters" will bash that, but I can afford to do what I want, and you can do what you want.
This is just the direction I took w/ MY car, and I'm sure all of you can justify the way you all decide to take your own.
SO to answer a few questions or comments:
DocL, thanks for the post and kind words.
NSX PTY, I think I've answered your questions on shock travel.
KooLaid, You get 5 stars. You got it figured out. Again thanks for the nice comments.
Docjohn, No trickery. I don't have time to teach myself how to use photoshop.
BioBanker, You can buy the airjacks from AP racing. Then all you need to do is fabricate the mounts. I used the OEM tiedown locations in the rear, and have mounts right behind the radiator. They were hefty locations that would support the cars weight and still be acceptable for balance w/o stressing the chassis. When I built my set up, it was before anyone offered the airjacks for sale, so I had to be more creative. The pluming of the airlines is simple, first decide your manifold position, then run stainless braided lines.
It's takes about 260-280 psi. I use nitrogen. It's an inert gas and easily available. It's also great for inflating your tires as the temps will vary minimally. Of course you'll need a high pressure regulator and hose. I don't know about cost. $3K might buy the airjacks, the plumbing , wand etc will probably cost you closer to $4K, but to be honest I'm just guessing. My front airjacks have "dump valves" so that it dumps all the captured air in the manifold and lines immediately whan the wand is removed. This was the design for the indycar set up so as to get the car returned on the ground quickly and get the car back onto the track in minimal time. I'm not sure if the AP's have the dump valves. I bet it could be an option. Either way the air evacuating the system is quick, the weight of the car pressing on the sq area of piston has good force, the internal spring will pull the strut back into the retracted position.
UnhuZ and Others, You should know, that the term you use "coil over" IS incorrect. The length of "droop" has nothing to do w/ the springs, as you imply by using the term "coil-overs". It is purely the length of the shiney chrome shaft of the "shock/strut". I bought "parts" from Koni, and we shortened mine.
John@Microsoft, There you go. HRP is an outstanding source for racecar parts. Be careful if you use that kit, as those airjacks might not fit in your mounting locations. If you happened to use the same or similar locations that I did, it is very tight behind the radiator. And for the rear, I raised mine up a bit as I didn't want them to be sheered off when driving on the street. My rears don't actuate with enough "stroke" or travel to level the car when raised. And for me it was more important to have them not sheared off when driving on the street. I can always easily ad a quick connect "foot" or "shoe" on the bottom if that were an issue. It's an easy machine shop project. But for now the car Does completely clear the ground nicely, and the wheels can come off w/ no clearance problem. This is why I use differn't block thicknesses when raising the car to put it on jackstands, to maximize travel. Oh and as you've read, I use no delrin or cable stops, although as you mentioned, that could do the job too. (I doubt many on prime even know what it is).
Jim, Notice Dali has never completed this product, it's just a possible product if he Mark has interest. You can go to APracing and put together your own kit. There is still some engineering to accomplish to make it work properly.
jalnjr, KSXNSX, and others, Well I think widowmaker and other comments, are a bit negative, and I'm not sure why. You don't see anybody under the car, w/o saftey stands because the car is on it's way down as I just finished pulling them after powdercoating my wheels and brake calipers and replacing the brake master cylinder. Yep and for observant ones the torque wrench happens when the wheels are on the ground. It's the last step to complete the job. For your info, it's NOT balsa wood or play doh. What does it matter if there are blocks UNDER the feet of the airjack foot? Either way there is slightly less that 800 lbs +/- of force/ weight on the blocks. The car weight is approx 3K devided by 4. Follow? So how would the car be unstable? I guarntee you couldn't pull the blocks out or budge the car itself, even if you were a sumo wrestler. I'm glad that most of you have got a clue. The blocks of wood are under compression, they are flat. Any more discussion on this is purely ignorance. If it's important for you to continue on this, I think you should hang out on another web board w/ other teenagers. Maybe rethink going back to school or ponder why you shouldn't have cheated on all those tests when you Were in school.
jalnjr, I did appreciate the humor though. Nice photoshop work. I see from your work why you might be a have doubt. It would have been over the top if you would have added Mr. Bill or Homer Simpson etc, under the car...
Some of you should come down to reality and not post pictures of your imaginary world as your signature along w/ all the mods to your car, or next "dream" mods, Nobody cares about what cars you own either. It's SO high school.
Alient, Derek.. and long time friend. Thanks for the heads up on this rubbish. You and many others have seen the car at the Dallas NSX gatherings years ago, and helped many times get the car on jackstands and working properly along w/ many other things. I am entertained that w/ your insight to this post the continued ignorant comments. Thanks for the "original" levitation pic. LMAO. Obviously KSXNSX needs to put the Xbox down and get to the racetrack before showing his ignorance again.
CL65 CA, where are you based? pvt me. Recognize the rear blocks w/ rope. They're what's placed in front and rear of your tyres when you set the brakes at the gate. Yoda is perfect!! And your signature pic looks like a few PHL ramp crew. Thanks for adding the humor.
nsxtcy85, heySkippy, stuntman, and many of you,....5 stars to you as well. You've got it under wraps.
Again, thank you for all of the Kind words and comments.
david
David,
Thanks a million for dropping in to give us "the rest of the story"!
Thanks a million for dropping in to give us "the rest of the story"!
David thanks for the informative post! I have to laugh though as I'm sure you have with some of the photographic embelishments. You taught me something about short stroke shocks and lack of droop.Maybe at some future xpo we could have a friendly competition to see who could push your car off those air jacks and wood blocks!:tongue:
- Joined
- 22 September 2005
- Messages
- 1,215
Yea that would suck if a competitor with a 20gallon compressed air tank in his car had someone jump onto your car with the air-jack 'wand' and deploy your airjacks while going 80mph
haha sorry I had to laugh at that also.
Yea that would suck if a competitor with a 20gallon compressed air tank in his car had someone jump onto your car with the air-jack 'wand' and deploy your airjacks while going 80mph
Hmmm...air tank and air jack wand eh?
How to you get any bump travel when the car is lowered by 3.3 inches (old post).
- Joined
- 14 September 2006
- Messages
- 1,725
wow.
I don't even know where to begin with that reasoning...
We just don't want you to hurt yourself or the car--don't be offended. I don't think I can change your mind so: Hey, it is your car and your life. Whatever makes you happy.
Just remember: P=F/A
I guess it could be worse:
Last edited:
He makes a hell of a lot more sense than you do.
- Joined
- 14 September 2006
- Messages
- 1,725
Let's stop the nonsense bickering. It is a cool system, the way he jacked it up is precarious at best, no that reasoning does not make sense and it is his car so he should enjoy it the way he wants.
Move on.
I think its way cool! I have to get my Russian wife to pick up my car.:biggrin:
Let's stop the nonsense bickering. It is a cool system, the way he jacked it up is precarious at best, no that reasoning does not make sense and it is his car so he should enjoy it the way he wants.
Move on.
I agree, the bickering sucks.
But we've all moved on. You are the only one who still doesn't get it.
Try this scenario:
He used his badass air jacks (actually designed to lift the car just enough to remove the wheels at the track ) on some wood blocks so that he could lift it a bit higher to get his jackstands under it so that could work on the car safely for a longer period of time.
Once complete, he removed the jackstands, took the picture, then lowered the car and torqued the wheels.
Hope that helps.
I'm still sticking with, "who give's a rat's a$$?"
- Joined
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