What are the best door speakers to use?

[enkrypt3d]

That sub will be very very accurate, but if you are looking for something that is more spl orientated, I would look else-where.

spl?

 

[Hapa88]

alpine D class 4 channel bridged to run 3 channel. perfect

Yeah! I went with the Alpine PDX4.100 in 3 channel mode (Stereo + Bridged) to power my system. Excellent digital amp and is extremely small for a 4x100watt amp, so it fits right behind my driver seat and runs cool!

Get it on Ebay now for ~$320-30% Live Cashback = $224!!

 

[enkrypt3d]

Yeah! I went with the Alpine PDX4.100 in 3 channel mode (Stereo + Bridged) to power my system. Excellent digital amp and is extremely small for a 4x100watt amp, so it fits right behind my driver seat and runs cool!

Get it on Ebay now for ~$320-30% Live Cashback = $224!!

Not quite enough to push that sub!

 

[Hapa88]

Go with the PDX-1.600 to drive that sub. 600x1 RMS in 4 or 2 Ohms. Price is about the same using the EBay deal.

Looks like you could surpass your $800 limit here. . Might as well go all out! :biggrin:

 

[KooLaid]

That lotus sub looks like it has a MASSIVE surround. You're going to have to french in the sub to get it to mount far enough back to keep it from hitting the grill. Or get a Z3 box. A standard sub almost touches the grill in a basic style box (Z1, Z2, SOS).

Hmmm looks like SOS has a new design box. Dang. I really HATE my SOS box. It's the last top mount design, non-frenched in design.

 

[enkrypt3d]

That lotus sub looks like it has a MASSIVE surround. You're going to have to french in the sub to get it to mount far enough back to keep it from hitting the grill. Or get a Z3 box. A standard sub almost touches the grill in a basic style box (Z1, Z2, SOS).

Hmmm looks like SOS has a new design box. Dang. I really HATE my SOS box. It's the last top mount design, non-frenched in design.

You guys will have to excuse me my audiophile-ness isn't ass l337 as some of you...

what does "Frenched In" mean? The sub only needs 5.3" of mounting depth so there's maybe a 1/4-1/2" of room behind it with the SoS speaker box...

 

[enkrypt3d]

Go with the PDX-1.600 to drive that sub. 600x1 RMS in 4 or 2 Ohms. Price is about the same using the EBay deal.

Looks like you could surpass your $800 limit here. . Might as well go all out! :biggrin:

Haha I would be in great shape if I could sell my 2002 OEM Rims! :tongue:

 

[Veleno]

If possible, I'd like to go with one company for the door speakers and amp and sub... I really like the Lotus Sub that i linked above. It will fit just right in the SoS Sub box - but I'm not sure if the rubber surround will touch the grille plate when installed and running?

That's one gnarly lookin' sub!

This is not a Lotus sub woofer. It is a DLS UR10

If you want to go with one company for all products, then you can still go with the DLS line. I'd get the UR10, Ultimate Nobelium 6.2 (custom bridge mounted over mid bass in door), and a DLS amp (Did you want a single amp setup or 2 amps is fine?)

spl?

Sound Pressure Level

You guys will have to excuse me my audiophile-ness isn't ass l337 as some of you...

what does "Frenched In" mean? The sub only needs 5.3" of mounting depth so there's maybe a 1/4-1/2" of room behind it with the SoS speaker box...

I believe he means his sub is mounted on the face of the enclosure, unlike Zetoolman's boxes which have the sub "sunken in" to give the face of the enclosure a flushed look.

 

[enkrypt3d]

This is not a Lotus sub woofer. It is a DLS UR10

If you want to go with one company for all products, then you can still go with the DLS line. I'd get the UR10, Ultimate Nobelium 6.2 (custom bridge mounted over mid bass in door), and a DLS amp (Did you want a single amp setup or 2 amps is fine?)




Sound Pressure Level




I believe he means his sub is mounted on the face of the enclosure, unlike Zetoolman's boxes which have the sub "sunken in" to give the face of the enclosure a flushed look.

Ah yea - All the other subs on that mobileSQ site don't seem to be a good fit for the NSX...

Does DLS make coax door speakers?

Also can you link me to those products you're talking about? Thx

 

[ScienceofSpeed]

However, the sub enclosure looks pretty big so be prepared for a loss of leg room on the passenger side. It's a shame that the Ztoolman discontinued his box because the V3 was a really small box that was very nicely made.

The box looks big because it reaches up into the dash and against the front firewall of the NSX **NOT** into the passanger footwell. In fact, when it is installed, you lose LESS than one inch of foot room. When we designed this, we used all possible volume that was unused by the factory behind the dash allowing it to have the most volume (and best woofer response) with the least intrusion into the footwell. If you compare installed photos, the footwell clearance is the same if not better than the Ztoolman box. In addition, this box is fully composite, just like the Ztoolman box.

Cheers,
-- Chris

 

[KooLaid]

Frenched in means to sink it in or recess it. Kind of like they used to do with trucks in the 90's or even hot rods, they'd mount the license plate frenched into the rear tail gate or rear of the vehicle. Or for a good example, refer to Z3 subwoofer enclosure.

You won't be able to place a standard grill over that Lotus sub.

 

[CL65 Captain]

Not quite enough to push that sub!

Dude, you have no idea what you are talking about... the Alpine PDX4.100 puts out 300w bridged and is MORE than enough for that sub. I am starting to wonder if you are really a woman because you came on here not looking for actual advice or opinions but for confirmation of your opinions.

Good Luck with your choices.

 

[enkrypt3d]

Dude, you have no idea what you are talking about... the Alpine PDX4.100 puts out 300w bridged and is MORE than enough for that sub. I am starting to wonder if you are really a woman because you came on here not looking for actual advice or opinions but for confirmation of your opinions.

Good Luck with your choices.

uh what? dude chill we're all friends here... I dont know why you are getting all bent out of shape about something we (you & I) weren't even talking about.

300W RMS mono (one channel) isn't enough to push that 500W RMS sub... I want an amp that is a better fit for the sub so that the amp isn't working too hard to push it...

The sub has dual voice coils which means it would have to be pushing 500W to each coil right? I could be wrong! I never said I was an expert, I even said that I need a little refresher... so how about you relax?

I appreciate the recommendations everyone's making - and I am taking it all into consideration. Thanks

 

[CL65 Captain]

Power handling has absolutely nothing to do with how big an amp it takes to drive it. Sensitivity of the speaker, in this case 85.6 db 1w/1m will tell you how efficient the speaker is. Power handling has more to do with how much heat the voice coils can take before overheating and self destructing - but there are alot of variables so take the ratings with a grain of salt. For example you can run 1000w of clean power to that sub without blowing it but a 100w crappy amp with alot of distortion will blow it pretty quick.

A speaker is essentially an electic motor, it turns electricity into movement. A byproduct of this is heat. More power, means more heat. As well, the enclosure design and volume have alot to do with the power handling of the sub. And as I said above, the quality of the amp is also a factor. An old school 100w Soundstream Class A amp would drive that sub better than most new Class A/B 500w+ switching amps, however class A amps are ineffecient and generate alot of heat and take up alot of space - not good in the NSX. So please don't think you need a 500w amp to drive a sub that is rated at 500w RMS it's just not the case.

Here is the problem you are going to have with the dual 4ohm voice coils... you have three choices.
1. dual mono amps (one for each 4ohm vc)
2. run it with two channels of a stereo (For example chanel 1 to the Left Coax, 2 to the right Coax and 3 & 4 to the sub - not bridged)
3. find an amp that will allow you to bridge it and run 2 ohm (not alot of amps can do this - most specify 4 ohm bridged)

The main reason they make dual vc subs is so you can string multiple subs together and get the load (ohms) you want the amp to see. For example, take 2 of these subs and parallel the vc (2ohms) and then put the two subs in series to get a 4 ohm load.

You need a sub that will work in your application instead of doing it backwards by finding a sub and then trying to make it work in your application. <---- BEST ADVICE!!!

 

[enkrypt3d]

That sub will be very very accurate, but if you are looking for something that is more spl orientated, I would look else-where.

Can u explain the difference between accuracy and SPL? thx

Power handling has absolutely nothing to do with how big an amp it takes to drive it. Sensitivity of the speaker, in this case 85.6 db 1w/1m will tell you how efficient the speaker is. Power handling has more to do with how much heat the voice coils can take before overheating and self destructing - but there are alot of variables so take the ratings with a grain of salt. For example you can run 1000w of clean power to that sub without blowing it but a 100w crappy amp with alot of distortion will blow it pretty quick.

A speaker is essentially an electic motor, it turns electricity into movement. A byproduct of this is heat. More power, means more heat. As well, the enclosure design and volume have alot to do with the power handling of the sub. And as I said above, the quality of the amp is also a factor. An old school 100w Soundstream Class A amp would drive that sub better than most new Class A/B 500w+ switching amps, however class A amps are ineffecient and generate alot of heat and take up alot of space - not good in the NSX. So please don't think you need a 500w amp to drive a sub that is rated at 500w RMS it's just not the case.

Here is the problem you are going to have with the dual 4ohm voice coils... you have three choices.
1. dual mono amps (one for each 4ohm vc)
2. run it with two channels of a stereo (For example chanel 1 to the Left Coax, 2 to the right Coax and 3 & 4 to the sub - not bridged)
3. find an amp that will allow you to bridge it and run 2 ohm (not alot of amps can do this - most specify 4 ohm bridged)

The main reason they make dual vc subs is so you can string multiple subs together and get the load (ohms) you want the amp to see. For example, take 2 of these subs and parallel the vc (2ohms) and then put the two subs in series to get a 4 ohm load.

You need a sub that will work in your application instead of doing it backwards by finding a sub and then trying to make it work in your application. <---- BEST ADVICE!!!

Thanks man - It has been a long time since I have built a beefy sound system in my vehicle... So what sub would you recommend? I would like to be able to push it hard and not get any distortion... I know this is a tough order but I think it can be done... I always liked the dual VC subs.

Speaking of door speakers, would the AVIC-F90BT have enough power to push them on their own without an amp pushing them?

 

[CL65 Captain]

SPL = Sound Pressure Level. Measurement in dB of how "loud" the sound is. Accuracy is a more subjective term in this describes how accurately it reproduces the orginal recording.

Thanks man - It has been a long time since I have built a beefy sound system in my vehicle... So what sub would you recommend? I would like to be able to push it hard and not get any distortion... I know this is a tough order but I think it can be done... I always liked the dual VC subs.

Dual VC subs do absolutely nothing to add to the sound or power of the sub. The only reason for Dual VC is allow different configurations in wiring (ie multiple subs).

From TC Sounds FAQ

"There is really no advantage to any of these voice coil configurations. Ideally speaking, they are the same coil but broken up into smaller pieces in order to wire them at difference resistance and ultimately impedance loads. The idea is to match a driver to an amplifier’s maximum performance. There are differences in the TSP parameters, but ideally speaking, these differences typically cancel out. But because wire gauge and gap dimensions don’t always completely match up, there are always small advantages from one coil option to the next, however these differences may only result in 0.25 to 0.5db sensitivity advantage from a higher BL^2/Re factor, but such difference are not audible. And you should really not concern yourself as a consumer with these differences. Many DIY gurus nit pick TPS’s and forget the real proprieties of drivers such as dynamic linearity, or power compression for example. It is not wise to get wrapped up in the TSP nick pick game when it comes to coil configurations but rather to match the driver to an amplifier to maximum the performance of the system.

A simple way to understand the coils is like this:

SVC (single voice coil) can only be wired one way.

DVC (dual voice coil) can only be wired at twice the coil load or half the coil load. IE: D2 = 1 ohm or 4 ohms, or it can be driven with a 2 channel amp at 2 ohms per channel.

QVC (quad voice coil) can only be wired at the ohm load or one quarter or four times. IE: Q2 = 0.5, 2 or 8.
Or a two channel amp at either 4 or 1 ohm per channel."

Speaking of door speakers, would the AVIC-F90BT have enough power to push them on their own without an amp pushing them?

Short answer.... no, especially if you want to listen to it at anything more than a moderate level. 22w per channel is not much. Ask PhiAlpha44. I had one listen to his stereo because he had good component's (Focals) and the same amp as me but it didn't sound anything like mine. I told him after 5 sec I bet they used your head unit to power the fronts and only used the amp for the sub. Pop the trunk.... sure enough they did exactly that... now we are going to rewire it.

Amps - you want one that you can configure for 3 channels. Left, Right and Sub. Most 4 channel amps can bridge their channels to opperate in 3 channel mode.

Subs - you want a 4 ohm load. Either a single VC 4 ohm or Dual 2 ohm (wire in series to get 4 ohm).

There are lots of good subs out there - however, in the NSX you need shallow mount and they have to work in a small sealed volume 0.3 to 0.65 cu ft. That narrows it down alot.

First off, you can't go wrong with JL Audio. They make good solid subs - period.

Image Dynamics IDQ10 - one of the best sound quality small cu ft subs made - mounting depth may be a problem depending on the box.

elemental Design SQ10 - cheap ($70), good sound quality, 3" mounting depth, good SPL

Hertz (aka SOS) never heard but it looks decent

Earthquake SWS10 - not cheap, lots of NSXs with them (Ztoolman used them in his boxes), lots of good audio mag reviews.

 

[enkrypt3d]

Thanks for the info...

I have had a JL Audio sub in my Prelude and loved it... Just looking for the right combination... without breaking the bank!

http://mobile.jlaudio.com/products_subs.php?series_id=15

Looks like this is the only sub that would fit in any NSX sub box...but even then I dont think any box will be big enough to have 1.7 cu ft

I LOVE the 10W7 woah! But of course its too big...

 

[CL65 Captain]

You might be able to fit the 10w3v2 depending on the box. I know in my orginal (large) Ztoolman v1 it would fit with a spacer ring.

Wish I could make one of these fit (12").... :biggrin:

However, they are $300+ ea and truth be told, I am more than content with my current sub (see below).

 

[CL65 Captain]

If you are on a budget.... take a look at Elemental Designs.

Either the 9kv2

or the SQ10

Both will work in a sealed enclosure as small as 0.3 cu and are fairly reasonable. $75 & $70.

I have the bottom one, the SQ10. I will swear by it as the best bang for the buck. PM PhiAlpha44, he's heard it in my car. This is the 3rd sub I have tried as I kept making my box smaller and smaller. BTW: It hits as hard as my JL Audio w3v2 that I had in the orginal 0.65 cu box. The SQ10 has a 3" mounting depth. The 9k (on top) is 4.375" deep.

 

[PhiAlpha44]

Short answer.... no, especially if you want to listen to it at anything more than a moderate level. 22w per channel is not much. Ask PhiAlpha44. I had one listen to his stereo because he had good component's (Focals) and the same amp as me but it didn't sound anything like mine. I told him after 5 sec I bet they used your head unit to power the fronts and only used the amp for the sub. Pop the trunk.... sure enough they did exactly that... now we are going to rewire it.

Listen to Captain. :wink:

 

[spider2k]

Dual VC subs do absolutely nothing to add to the sound or power of the sub. The only reason for Dual VC is allow different configurations in wiring (ie multiple subs).

i get this all day every day from each person that walks in the door, and then they wanna argue it.

its almost as good as the "did you bridge my amp so its better?" question.

 

[01blacks4]

Hertz uses a cloth (soft) dome...its not a bs marketing term just because YOU dont know what it is...

you are partly correct about the relationship between hertz and audison, Hertz is the parent company though, not audison. They are owned by electromedia.

they are a extremly high end speaker, one of the better it the world and very popular everywhere except the US. We have way too many speakers here anyway :wink:

the glass reflection really would have very very very little to do with a hard or soft dome speaker sounding harsh. the reflections would all be 2nd or 3rd order (very low in the audible range). the primary reason that metal sounds harsh in a car and not on the sound board is this.

almost ALL metal tweetrs have an aluminim or TI cone (dome) with a metal surround. the metal has a resonance peak of 4.5-8K. (this REALLY gets bad with a clipped signal) since the x-over point is lower than the RP (resonance peak) these frequancies get way out of conterol with both electronic clipping, or mechanical clipping. (all electronics have clipping)

in a car, especially a small cabin like the nsx the pressure in the cabin creats presure against the tweeter dome, causing mechaninal clipping. in a soundboard in a store the room is larger = less pressue on the cone.

you are also closer to being on axis in a sound room.

off axis response on a metal tweeter is much higher than a soft dome.

FWIW, you can do much better than a JL. JL is like the chevy....yeah they make a z06. but they also make the other crap too.

as far as the DVC deal, DVC most definalty handles more power, you have more VC winding, spead out across the magnetic gap more evenly.
sure it make wiring easier too, but the real benifit is heat dispersion.



sorry if this is hard to follow.. my typing sucks, so my convaince suffers

 

[01blacks4]

i get this all day every day from each person that walks in the door, and then they wanna argue it.

its almost as good as the "did you bridge my amp so its better?" question.

thats funny cause all the years i would walk into that same door, I was always blown away how the people working at the store really had no comprehension of the most basic things....

like DVC
or bridged amplifiers
or transfer function :frown:

BTW, where do you work in stockbridge?

 

[01blacks4]

Power handling has absolutely nothing to do with how big an amp it takes to drive it. Sensitivity of the speaker, in this case 85.6 db 1w/1m will tell you how efficient the speaker is. Power handling has more to do with how much heat the voice coils can take before overheating and self destructing - but there are alot of variables so take the ratings with a grain of salt. For example you can run 1000w of clean power to that sub without blowing it but a 100w crappy amp with alot of distortion will blow it pretty quick.

A speaker is essentially an electic motor, it turns electricity into movement. A byproduct of this is heat. More power, means more heat. As well, the enclosure design and volume have alot to do with the power handling of the sub. And as I said above, the quality of the amp is also a factor. An old school 100w Soundstream Class A amp would drive that sub better than most new Class A/B 500w+ switching amps, however class A amps are ineffecient and generate alot of heat and take up alot of space - not good in the NSX. So please don't think you need a 500w amp to drive a sub that is rated at 500w RMS it's just not the case.

Here is the problem you are going to have with the dual 4ohm voice coils... you have three choices.
1. dual mono amps (one for each 4ohm vc)
2. run it with two channels of a stereo (For example chanel 1 to the Left Coax, 2 to the right Coax and 3 & 4 to the sub - not bridged)
3. find an amp that will allow you to bridge it and run 2 ohm (not alot of amps can do this - most specify 4 ohm bridged)

The main reason they make dual vc subs is so you can string multiple subs together and get the load (ohms) you want the amp to see. For example, take 2 of these subs and parallel the vc (2ohms) and then put the two subs in series to get a 4 ohm load.

You need a sub that will work in your application instead of doing it backwards by finding a sub and then trying to make it work in your application. <---- BEST ADVICE!!!

good post captain!! except the dvc part

 

[spider2k]

i work in jonesboro @ radio active. tara blvd.(read:ghetto)