What do you guys think of this?

[TURBO2GO]

I need some advice on this one. I tend to be a bit extreme with some things and I got sick of not knowing my fuel pressure and AFR and I decided to gauge out my car. Long story short I now own 8 gauges, 2 by AEM and 6 by STACK. they are all 52 =mm black. Here are my 6 Stacks:

And I have these from AEM:

Here is my dash without my radio (which will not go back anytime soon)

Now here is what I want to do:

I want to remove the ashtray. Then I want to make the entire console from just underneath the HVAC control down to the bottom of the ashtray solid. Most likely I will have to cut the console, then mate in some 1/4" or thicker ABS plastic panel. The end result will look something like this on the oem console:

Then I want to follow the theme of the OEM HVAC cutout, and make 3 more OVAL SHAPED cutouts below it. So the hole on top will be mimicked 3 more times, but a bit taller, and the very bottom one also narrower.

I want to round and radius the edges of these cutouts exactly like OEM. The top two oval cutouts will house the 6 stack gauges, and the last bottom oval will house the two AEM's.

I want to then have a double din plate of some sort UNDER the console that I can attach my gauges to. I don't want them attached to the console for service reasons. I then want to put on the console, and it will basically sit over the HVAC with it's oval, and then sit over the gauges with 3 more ovals.

I am hoping to keep this very OEM looking.

The problem is, and I have done lots of car stereo installations, this might be above my skill level to get perfect. I got a quote today to do this from a high end shop, they wanted $1500. That is a lot of money. So question is... should I tackle this myself anyway? is the there anyone you guys know of I can send the parts to skilled enough to do this? I actually thought of Tyler but this is really a difficult job to get perfect. Not sure he would be up for this. The entire console would have to be painted. Is there anyone else that you can think of that could do this and what do you think of my idea anyway?

Thanks for any input.

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[ChrisK]

Don't modify a perfectly good OEM console. Either buy a spare to modify or buy the fiberglass ones. A good condition unmodified OEM console is too valuable. I myself have bought two slightly modified OEM consoles as spares specifically to modify them to my needs keeping my original unmolested. I would even offer you some cash plus one of my spare consoles for your unmolested one.

 

[TURBO2GO]

I have two 02+ consoles. And I think I'd have to paint the thing after all this so I wonder why I bought an 02+ silver console. Seems like the SOS console might be the easier starting platform but I've read mixed reviews on its fit (anyone with experience please chime in). I mean that console would be SO much easier to cut and modify. Then I would just sell find 04 console I have as an extra. Just not sure of the fit. I know the Dali one is terrible.

 

[nsxot1c]

If you're going to tackle this... use an OEM console. Nothing against the SOS ones, but they just lack what the OEM ones do as far as quality.


I would 100% agree with ChrisK and say use a 91-01 console and don't destroy/waste a 02+, but that's your call. Goodluck! Should look cool.


Do you have an ipod setup for radio, or are just not running any at all?

 

[Stephen@NCAutoUSA]

You're planning to put all 9 gauges in? Why not do a few serial gauges instead?

 

[LMR]

I have never been a fan of gauges in the console because you have to look down to see them which is why I put mine in the Nav Pod but after talking with you yesterday about what you are planning I can't wait to see this when it's completed!!!!!! Keep us updated on the progress.

 

[RYU]

I think you will find that these will be less useful than you might think.

1. With the exception of the AEM gauges, the sweep needle style gauges give you a "rough" view of where your engine vitals are at best. The human brain cannot process information on a dial with a needle that quickly. Digital gauges may not look as cool but I've found them MUCH more useful. Keep in mind in hard driving conditions you need to quickly glance at gauges. You can't stare at them for more than a split second. Audible alarms are one thing.. but should be kept only for crucial items. For example, most put an audible alarm for redline. It's going to go off a lot (by design). What if your other alarms sound the same. Will your brain be able to process it all? Will you lose concentration? If not, maybe you should be an F1 driver! lol. It seems difficult to put an audible alarm on AFR per say... Once you install one you'll know why. With that said there are some gauges I don't mind being the needle/dial style but as I grow into monitoring things with a digital numeric readout I find it much better. Digital speedos are an example of this. I use to hate them.. now I love them.

2. Agree with Les. Visually the best spot is in the OEM Nav Pod. I'm personally still debating the OEM navpod option. It's a Plan B for me. I simply don't like how it looks. I'm not building a race car. I'm building my own little humble OEM-looking supercar for all occasions. Plan A being to french a monitor which shows my digital readout under the factory CCU. Cwood here on prime has graciously agreed to help me. His products look awesome. Oh.. so I wish I could relocate the CCU and the OEM vents but it seems like a monumental task. Functionally.. its difficult to always glance down ---low--- at your car's vitals when you're driving aggressively. This is where you plan to locate your gauges.

P.S. I hate to sound like an HKS fanboy but I really love my F-Con iS. I will have 18 different parameters available for monitoring. Via a push button switch I can toggle between 3 screens with 6 readouts for each.

JIMHO

This was during a recent tuning session. Here's a rough layout of how i'm going to have mine. The monitor is not mounted as of yet but will eventually be recessed back significantly. If you can think of a more optimal layout please let us know!

I'm going for an Aventador style layout.

 

[Dhalsim]

What about a "heads Up" display? When I was looking around to buy an NSX I ran across at least 1 NSX that had a heads up display but I don't remember what, other than speed, it was showing.

Otherwise I know it looks "Ricey" to some but having the gauges in the A pillar would be a good choice.

 

[NetViper]

I think it is way too many gauges and will look way too busy. I think you will be tired of it in a week.

 

[Hrant]

Dave - some varied advice here, but I agree with RYU's #1. There is no way you will be able to look at even half of these gauges and make sense unless you are at a stop sign or parked.

I agree the NAV pod is ideal for visual scan, but I too have been hesistant given that it really can hold two 52mm gauges. By default, I am using the A pillar (yes a bit cheesy/ricey but then again it is quite functional at the track). I have two SPAL digitial gauges each with two readings; one for oil and water temp; the other boost and oil pressure. You can go with a third SPAL gauge on the A pillar with two more readings like AFR etc. ....

 

[ky650]

You mentioned you wanted to keep it very OEM looking but IMO that isn't feasible without designing custom gauges or preferably a screen and UI that matches. I apologize for being a bit negative about this but would rather make you aware of the issues beforehand (hey you have one of my favourite cars on Prime and I need to look out after it!).

Some very basic issues:

-You'd be mixing up a lot of colours/materials/and finishes and all of them are going to clash against one another. The best you could do to help reduce this is match the matte black plastic of the HVAC controls to your DIN backing plate that holds the pods. If you wanted to get crazy you could take apart the pods and redo their graphics/lighting so it matched the OEM style-ish or at least make the gauges consistent among themselves.

-It makes sense to make the gauges concentric with the radius created by your trim bezel hole but if you do that you end up with a blank space in between the two gauges which looks a bit awkward. If you move them inward to address that issue then your outer white space doesnt line up with the width of the HVAC cutout. You could choose to move them all in some and ignore that detail and then widen each one slightly to follow the taper of the console and the center gap between the two gauges would be negligible but the profile of the cutout should always remain concentric with the gauges.

-It's going to look incredibly busy no matter how you slice it...


Here's a quick rendering I made that might give you a general idea of what it could look like. I didn't take any measurements of the real console, I just assumed that the HVAC control opening was about 35mm tall relative to your 52mm gauges. Based on that it doesn't look like they'd actually fit (that model is about 340mm tall).



I guess if I were to make this (speaking hypothetically here - I don't actually want to make it :tongue I'd laser scan the console so you could measure your radii (assuming its a fillet and not some sort of blend), model everything up, 3d print/mill an insert and bond it to your existing console, sand sand sand until its all flawless, and paint. It's a good amount of work so I'm not really surprised someone quoted $1500 for it. I have no idea what the automotive audio crowd charges but I can certainly imagine a model maker charging that.

From a designer's perspective I'd go with the A pillar honestly, at least that way 95% of the interior looks stock. Hope that helps some.

 

[TURBO2GO]

If you're going to tackle this... use an OEM console. Nothing against the SOS ones, but they just lack what the OEM ones do as far as quality.


I would 100% agree with ChrisK and say use a 91-01 console and don't destroy/waste a 02+, but that's your call. Goodluck! Should look cool.


Do you have an ipod setup for radio, or are just not running any at all?

Can you elaborate on the issue with the SOS ones? I will be sanding and painting anyway. I am using my iphone as my radio

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You're planning to put all 9 gauges in? Why not do a few serial gauges instead?

8. I don't care for multi-function that much. It never takes the place of a solid gauge. I don't want to go to option 13 to view a parameter while the other disappears. If I was short on real estate OK... but I have space with no radio.

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I think you will find that these will be less useful than you might think.

No I don't think so Regan. I didn't want this to turn into a gauge thread but more an installation thread as I have discussed this on other threads already. But... I will do so again. I disagree that gauges should be line of sight. When on the track I barely want to even look down at my large tach, and I am putting in proper flashing LED shift alerts, probably the ishift. I certainly don't want to be looking at a 2" fuel pressure gauge. So then what is the function of a gauge?

It is:

1) To give you a way to datalog. You can datalog without gauges but every one of these datalogs.

2) To show you want some peaks were that you reached during a run. All these gauges have a peak hold function

3) To warn you. But most actually don't. They expect you to keep an eye on them. Every one of these gauges has a low warning, an "OK' function, a high warning, and a flashing warning beyond that. Please watch what this center gauge does as it goes up:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/5n3gqhfHiqg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I research and think about things very thoroughly. There are reasons why I decided to do this. I now have warning on any parameter of the engine. No need to keep an eye at all, and when you want to, it is there. Crystal clear with no buttons to press and changes to make.

I don't like the look of gauges in the navpod, and as I stated earlier, I have the real estate. So why not get proper instrumentation. I can still do an HKS CAMP2, but my plan is hopefully to get that monitor also working for an always on rear camera in HD. Now THAT is useful on the track. I have another thread about HD-SDI cameras, DVR's and monitors.

http://www.smallhd.com/products/ac7/index.html

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What about a "heads Up" display? When I was looking around to buy an NSX I ran across at least 1 NSX that had a heads up display but I don't remember what, other than speed, it was showing.

Otherwise I know it looks "Ricey" to some but having the gauges in the A pillar would be a good choice.

It was Defi. No longer made. I don't like pillar pod because it is only 2 gauges max and it is as you said, ricey.

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I think it is way too many gauges and will look way too busy. I think you will be tired of it in a week.

I don't think so Dave. It will be highly functional and give me complete peace of mind. And if I can mount them like I want, I think it will look very clean.

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There is no way you will be able to look at even half of these gauges and make sense unless you are at a stop sign or parked.

Excactly. And as I explain that very reason is why I selected these particular gauges and this many of them. I don't need water temp per se, but now I can datalog, set a low point, a high point. Have the gauge be blue when engine is cold, change to amber when at operating temp, bright red when a temp is exceeded, and flash with a buzzer when over what I want it to be at. As the same with any parameter.

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KY650 I have to run but I will respond to your thoughtful reply when back from basketball.

 

[Hrant]

Dave - I hear you ..... but to correct a comment, you can indeed put three sets of gauges on an A pillar pod though it will be crowded. With Spa gauges, that would be 6 readings, and they do have a red flashing warning light when you get to the a preset threshold.

However I disagree with you regarding not looking at gauges at the track - presumably what you tried to say is with flashing lights from gauges, that will be your cue that something is starting to go wrong (amber before red right lol!). Part of instructions I give to students who do not have all these bells and whistles is to check their gauges especially their water, oil on the straights, and for those who have TPS, to keep that displayed.

 

[Stephen@NCAutoUSA]

Please don't do this to your car.

If you do get that over priced shop to make a recession panel or something and a slip on or flip cover to hide all the ones you won't really need to watch on a daily basis.

 

[Dhalsim]

I don't like pillar pod because it is only 2 gauges max and it is as you said, ricey.

Actually you can fit 3 and like Hrant says if you use the dual gauges thats 6 you can monitor. And if you think an A pillar pod is ricey I can tell you now your going Rice-A-Rama with what your suggesting

 

[TURBO2GO]

View attachment 103543

I've taken my measurements. It all fits. You have 2 across, but 3 gauges fit across. I planned on the matt black bezel underneath but changed my mind tonight. I think I am going to recess mount each gauge individualy. So I will have a solid console, but with 8 individual "holes" where the surrounding bezel tapers in towards the guage and the gauge is flush mounted from underneath, showing only the dial face and not its own gauge bezel. The reason I think this is superior is because as you say, the console tapers in. If I had oval cutouts with gauges on black trim, I'd struggle with making it look right as the second row would have to be closer spaced than the first row. With individual "holes", that can look just fine. With them on a black bezel, its going to be tough to get a clean look.

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Actually you can fit 3 and like Hrant says if you use the dual gauges thats 6 you can monitor. And if you think an A pillar pod is ricey I can tell you now your going Rice-A-Rama with what your suggesting

LOL... Rice o rama... No man, pillar pod is worse. This will look factory. Just wait and see. Luke... trust your father...

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Please don't do this to your car.

If you do get that over priced shop to make a recession panel or something and a slip on or flip cover to hide all the ones you won't really need to watch on a daily basis.

Stephen you will eat these words. hehe

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Dave - I hear you ..... but to correct a comment, you can indeed put three sets of gauges on an A pillar pod though it will be crowded. With Spa gauges, that would be 6 readings, and they do have a red flashing warning light when you get to the a preset threshold.

However I disagree with you regarding not looking at gauges at the track - presumably what you tried to say is with flashing lights from gauges, that will be your cue that something is starting to go wrong (amber before red right lol!). Part of instructions I give to students who do not have all these bells and whistles is to check their gauges especially their water, oil on the straights, and for those who have TPS, to keep that displayed.

Hrant I just really don't like the look of round gauges in a navpod and I don't like them in the pillar pod, it is way too "add on" and F&F. Plus the Spa looks NOTHING like the OEM gauge, and these stacks look very close to oem with the color of the dial and needle.

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So I need some advice:

how can I bond an ABS sheet to the rest of the console? I think the best way is to cut that entire center section out... and then make an ABS plate with the right holes, radius the edges of each "hole". I have to have ABS thick enough to create that radius. I was thinking of this:

http://www.interstateplastics.com/Black-Abs-Plate-Machine-Grade-Sheet-ABSBM.php

 

[RYU]

So I think you and I have different viewpoints on how gauges should be used. I'm more in Hrant's camp. It's all preference though so no need to go into it further. I do like the Green > Yellow > Red feature of your gauges!

I simply can't imagine any layout that will look acceptable or even nice. It seems like many of us here can't either. Maybe you can put all the gauges behind a tinted piece of flat acrylic and when the car is off it's just black. I don't know... having a flat triangular screen in there like most double dins isn't very nice either.

Please prove us wrong! Good luck!

Edit: You could also move the CCU into the glove box or something. Use round style air vents and start everything from scratch. That kind of layout might have chance at looking OEM.

 

[Stephen@NCAutoUSA]

Bonding plastics can be tough sometimes. 3m makes some great products and some of the best in the industry for bonding adhesives. They have many but look up 3m scotch-weld dp8005.

 

[ky650]

Alright, I'm going to take your word on the measurements since I obviously didn't take any. Just keep in mind that each element will need breathing space around it so it doesn't look too crowded. You can take measurements on the existing HVAC/Radio controls because they probably share a uniform grid, matching that will get you as close as possible to OEM in that regard.

I'm not 100% sure I'm understanding you correctly but the way I'm reading it is instead of the OEM slotted design with the recesses you want to have the 8 filleted holes of the console lead directly into the gauges? That would allow you to worry less about breathing space since you're "wasting" less with bezels, step downs, etc. It would mean even further deviating from the visual language of the cabin however because you're losing the two tiered step down look of the HVAC and carrying over less of the detailed treatment created by it and the CMF combination used there. For things to look like they belong to a design (in this case the NSX interior or at least its center console) they need to maintain existing visual relationships, this further deviates so it definitely won't (although I'd argue that the other direction wouldn't either). That isn't to say you couldn't possibly create something with a look that satisfies you, but that's a different challenge from keeping an OEM look just to be fair. As far as solving the spacing issue with the tapering my guess without modeling it up to check is that it will actually be more obvious that your spacing is changing with the taper because you will see distinct black holes on a silver body where as the slotted/recessed method takes some attention away from the gauge elements themselves by blending them against a black trim which emphasizes the profile of the cutout more than the elements within the profile.

All of that aside, if you do go that route anyways you're going to need to strike a balance to maintain the right level of "finish". Leading the console trim piece directly into the gauge is going to create an odd look that just doesn't quite have enough detailing to make it look resolved (ugh sorry I don't know how to explain this well). If you look at the gauge cluster (by the steering wheel) you'll see they put that plastic trim ring in between the gauge and the brushed silver stuff for that reason. You'll need to come up with solution specific to your gauges since that obviously won't work here (this is where keeping the matte black plastic recess comes in) but its something to keep in mind, otherwise it will look kinda DIY (from a design standpoint, not necessarily a build quality one).

As far as fabrication goes you might want to take apart the gauges and see how they hold themselves together. Are you going to have to remove their bezel to mount them? If that's not possible you may have to cut some sort of circular channel into the back of your console so they sit forward enough and don't look to recessed. If you can remove the bezel do you need to fabricate a new way to hold the glass face in place? Just be sure to come up with a strategy for all of this because a few millimeters in placement can really change the look and feel of a design.

Just as you said I needed to trust you with the sound system stuff because it's your field, trust me on this one because industrial design is mine - the tides have turned :biggrin:

Oh and I'm messing around with some new tweeter solutions again (you can tell me I told you so), I'll show you later.

 

[TURBO2GO]

Oh man.... Thanks KY this is something to think about. I doubt that the gauge bezels can be removed nor do I really want to do that. The glass sits around 2mm in. So should I go back to idea #1 in your opinion? Can you do a mock photo and show me what this would look like?

I really appreciate the help. Also thanks sduffass for the glue suggestion.

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A part of me is like order the SOS console, cut holes in it and be done. I just ordered some of that machine grade ABS

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Regan it's too late I already own the gauges so I own this project. Perhaps I was hasty lol but I do really like the functionality of these. I thought about the glass idea but they have buttons that need to be reached.

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Nsxprime is very helpful. Thank you guys to all that have chimed in.

 

[Juice]

No offense, but this is going to look turrible.

 

[Ko-nsx]

Turbo, i feel your pain on the gauges. One of the reason i haven't spent my rotholed cash on FI yet is because i wanted a CLEAN gauge set up. I like the PLX and the AEM serial guages. I've been looking at this setup since i have my V1 this way. You could keep it simple and have one in the mirror and then use the SOS gauge pod for the other 2. Like RYU stated, it'd be hard to monitor all that info all the time.
http://www.radar-mirror.com/PLX.html

I was thinking of having nav pod modified to have the the gauges show through the nav pod, like they would on the mirror. The screen would look black, not mirrored when the car is off then all the screens would be on with the key on. clean with no bevels or anything protruding. Just a thought.

At one time i thought about getting a Samsung galaxy note 2 and using it just for OBD reading, but it could still be made to work in or within the navpod. My neighbor has a custom lexus and he has the cleanest stereo install i have seen in a while in a car. I went to the shop and was inspired!
http://www.plxdevices.com/product_info.php?id=GSST2BLUETOOTH

 

[Cozmo]

I have 2 gauges where the ashtray was and it is terrible. I would never do it again nor recommend anyone else do so. You can't actually look at them when it actually matters.

 

[TURBO2GO]

What gauge do you need to look at and when does it "matter". Did you read the whole thread? We've already discussed this.

 

[ky650]

Sure I can do a quick mockup. If you can get me more dimensions I can make it more accurate which would help you out more. Dimensions of the console (width at the top and width at the bottom of the ashtray, height from that point, spacing around the HVAC to the radio+top+sides, HVAC cutout, panel thickness, gauges, etc and some closer angled shots of both gauge types) would be helpful; I'd measure my own car but its at the other house all covered up.