Who makes a REAL NSX-R wing? Is their such a thing?

[stuntman]

Many if not most will disagree with my statement, but I have yet to see in person a REAL NSX-R wing.

I have seen what was claimed to be an OEM NSX-R wing, Downforce's replica and modified wing, and other sorry excuses for an NSX-R wing.

Up until recently, I was under the impression that the engineers at Honda designed a crappy, inefficient wing for the NSX-R, where the trailing edge of the wing was a straight 60 degree slant, instead of having the trailing edge of the wing come to a point (as it should). This would cause the wing to stall at very low speeds and create way more drag than downforce. The only 'downforce' generated by the wings i have seen is the top of the wing where it has a little lip that flips up. The underside/trailing edge of the wing looks like the Tiatec GT500 wing- which too has a vertical trailing edge, is not a true aerodynamic profile, and only creates downward force from the top half of the wing.

*an airplane wing comes to a point at the trailing edge, heck EVOs and STIs also have functional wings that have an aerodynamic profile as well.

I recently saw this video where 1:14 minutes in to it (29 seconds on the count-down --pause the video), you can see the trailing edge of the NSX-R wing, and it comes to a point! -as it should properly.
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Has anyone ever seen a real NSX-R wing, who makes one?, or a replica that is not a cheap molding with a lack of attention to detail (I know many -including downforce, will argue that their wings are a 100% replica.) but from the wings that I have seen, they are NOT. Their wings all have a straight almost-vertical trailing edge that appears to have been made for simplicity and cost savings for the 3rd taillight. It appears that the attention to detail was not made to keep the true profile of a real wing on the 6-10" on either side of the center 3rd taillight, and the vertical trailing edge of the wing follows the vertical slope of the 3rd taillight.

Unless a real NSX-R wing is pretty much non-functional and the engineers at Honda had a special one-off wing for this video/these tests.


Please, only post if you understand this post and have feedback that will contribute to the search of a real NSX-R wing. I do not want to argue that the Tiatec GT500 wing and the NSX-R wings that ive seen (pretty much all of them) are non-functional because this was covered on another post before and it isn't functional.

 

[RacingHeart]

Ofcourse only Honda makes a "real" NSX-R wing. It's very pricey.

The aerodynamic function of the R wing is supposed to be very efficient. Much more than the "big ass wings" some people put on their cars.


I think Procar has (had?) a real wing - atleast their mold is made from a real wing, so why dont you ask him?

 

[Da Hapa]

Honda.

 

[scorp965]

 

[Ponyboy]

Somone's grumpy today.:wink: Looking at the :29 sec. point in the vid vs. the pic below seem to be identical. But maybe I'm not understanding your contention.

Trailing edge of my DF-R wing for discussion purposes:

Maybe this is a better pic of what you're talking about:

If not, there may be more HERE.

 

[stuntman]

This is exactly what I DID NOT want to happen. People posting defending their purchase or product. "Honda makes the real one, Look I have a real one, etc..."

Ofcourse only Honda makes a "real" NSX-R wing. It's very pricey.

The aerodynamic function of the R wing is supposed to be very efficient. Much more than the "big ass wings" some people put on their cars.


I think Procar has (had?) a real wing - atleast their mold is made from a real wing, so why dont you ask him?

I've seen claimed "real" NSX-R wings and sofar all ive seen are wings with the same problem. I highly doubt that even a real NSX-R wing would be more efficient or create more downforce than the "big ass wing".



Scorp: I met you and saw your car... It's not real.

This is a picture of the trailing edge of the wing. Look: 1" forward from the trailing edge theirs a distinct sharp edge. This is exactly what I was referring to. The bottom of the wing (as you can see) has a nice curve to it but then is disrupted by a sharp angle and then has an aggressive 60degree (ish) straight slope where it meets up with the trailing edge of the top of the wing. This characteristic is much easier/cheaper to produce than a proper wing that has a true aerodynamic profile (tear-drop, airplane wing).

 

[Ponyboy]

Yep, they look to be different. The sharper angle is quite noticeable.

For the record, I'm posting to neither promote, defend, or defame the product I bought - just adding to the discussion as objectively as possible. That said, I highly doubt any of the vendors are out to maliciously rob the community of potential efficiency.

 

[RacingHeart]

This is exactly what I DID NOT want to happen. People posting defending their purchase or product. "Honda makes the real one, Look I have a real one, etc..."

Whats up whith the attitude?

What do you want people to say; that some other company makes a REAL NSX-R wing?
Of course only Honda makes the real deal - The R wing is not some aftermarket invention. It was a original Honda design, but surely you must know this or you would'nt have made this post.

Why dont you just get your own OEM Honda R wing from Dali and find out yourself what its like - its a bargain at $5000.

And for the record I dont have a R Wing, OEM nor replica.

 

[scorp965]

Fwiw, the video has clips of different cars in it, there is a picture of revving that shows an NA1 NSX-R cluster (0:48); Best Motoring tested the prototype NA2 NSX-R, and there were at least two different wing designs used in testing - perhaps this is a different wing? The spoiler installed on my car is produced from a mold made using an oem spoiler, this is as specific as I can get. I understand your intention in this thread, and am not trying to push a certain product here... for contribution, here are press pictures of led/non led spoilers:

The second one is the prototype nsx-r, note the absence of diffuser.

 

[NSXrunner]

Since we are on the subject of NSX-R wings here. Can anyone explain the following NSX-R pic? Unlike all the photo's shown so far, this particular NSX-R appears to have diffusers of some kind ON the wing itself. Was this a one off model or an experiment? As I have never seen it on any other pic or documentation for the NSX-R.

 

[stuntman]

Whats up whith the attitude?

What do you want people to say; that some other company makes a REAL NSX-R wing?
Of course only Honda makes the real deal - The R wing is not some aftermarket invention. It was a original Honda design, but surely you must know this or you would'nt have made this post.

Why dont you just get your own OEM Honda R wing from Dali and find out yourself what its like - its a bargain at $5000.

And for the record I dont have a R Wing, OEM nor replica.

Well, you are being useless to this thread, and also bringing up the obvious. I did not want people to say "I have a real one, NSX-R is real, etc..." Please read my posts. I said twice now, that I have seen what was claimed to be a "real" $3,000 NSX-R wing, I know that many of the remakes are 'from a real NSX-R mold' and most of them are EXCEPT the trailing edge of the wing - the most important part of the wing, where its difficult to manufactuer. So by taking a real NSX-R wing, making a mold, it is cheaper to make this flat 'wall' as the trailing edge of the wing because its flat, and makes it easier to install the 3rd brakelight.


Ok, maybe my post should have said: Who makes/copied a REAL NSX-R wing? -Or is Honda's wing this inefficient?



Thank you Scorp! -It's difficult to tell because the pictures are so small, but both of those wings do not have a vertical trailing edge of the wing. You can see on the first one (w/brake light) the brakelight is vertical (obviously) but then it tapers up to a fine point on the trailing edge of the wing on both sides of the taillight -which all other "NSX-R" wings ive seen DO NOT DO to this extent -all the ones ive seen taper slightly to a vertical trailing edge which is much easier to manufactuer. Pointed out by pink here:

The 2nd pic looks good the entire length of the wing, again with no vertical panels on the trailing edge of the wing.

Since we are on the subject of NSX-R wings here. Can anyone explain the following NSX-R pic? Unlike all the photo's shown so far, this particular NSX-R appears to have diffusers of some kind ON the wing itself. Was this a one off model or an experiment? As I have never seen it on any other pic or documentation for the NSX-R.

Ive seen that in a recent video under the video threads. The car is an NSX-R prototype with the wing being on an adjustable hinge, so they can change the angle of the wing.

 

[ScienceofSpeed]

We have a car in our shop now with a genuine NSX-R spoiler.

The underside is identical to the Downforce and Cantrell spoilers, which used genuine Honda spoilers to make the mold.

The photos that Shawn posted are identical to the genuine article (I have both the genuine and Downforce spoiler less than 6 ft apart from each other to compare).

Cheers,
-- Chris

 

[stuntman]

We have a car in our shop now with a genuine NSX-R spoiler.

The underside is identical to the Downforce and Cantrell spoilers, which used genuine Honda spoilers to make the mold.

The photos that Shawn posted are identical to the genuine article (I have both the genuine and Downforce spoiler less than 6 ft apart from each other to compare).

Cheers,
-- Chris

Wow, then the real NSX-R wing's profile is just really bad... Worse than an EVO and STI, and probably isn't significant... I would have thought the Honda engineers would make something better than that... I'm still not 100% convinced...

Bummer, well then I just need to cut the wing and re-carbon it myself.

 

[simonprelude]

Saw an NA2 NSX-R last week, just had a look through the photo's and no specific photo's of the rear wing

 

[j.r]

What do you mean by worse than the evo and sti wing? Have you even seen the test numbers of how much downforce those add?

 

[CL65 Captain]

Here is my big ass wing. It works pretty well and never stalls out (well one did due to extreme stupidity during a ferry flight - Pinnacle Airlines Flight 3701).

 

[j.r]

http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=205084&highlight=Evo+aerodynamics

thread that goes over the aerodynamics of the sti and evo.

 

[NA1/2-R GT]

Wow, then the real NSX-R wing's profile is just really bad... Worse than an EVO and STI, and probably isn't significant... I would have thought the Honda engineers would make something better than that... I'm still not 100% convinced...

Bummer, well then I just need to cut the wing and re-carbon it myself.

You might be a good track driver but I doubt you have a degree in engineering and an expert in arodynamic (but if you do then I apologized). Based on what that made you think Honda engineers didn't make that wing to work with the car? based on your assumptions? FYI assumption is mother of all f*ck-ups. I wouldn't want to eat my own words, so I'd rather agree with the Honda engineers.

As Confucius once said:

"When you know a thing, to hold that you know it; and when you do not know a thing, to allow that you do not know it--this is knowledge."

 

[j.r]

In Layman's terms:

If you know it...that's nice. If you don't...shut up and learn!

 

[Ponyboy]

Here's the DF-R wing in almost the same position, but opposite side, as the NSX-R pic John posted:

The lighting isn't as good but you can discern a slight angle where the underside of the wing transitions to the LED.

Who's this "Lamen" dude?

 

[j.r]

Hey it's a good thing my career of choice only requires a high school diploma. And I got mine in Louisiana too. :biggrin:

 

[stuntman]

What do you mean by worse than the evo and sti wing? Have you even seen the test numbers of how much downforce those add?

STI/EVOs produce about 70lbs of downforce at 100mph. Nothing huge/dramatic, but from the profile of their wings compared to the NSX-R's ive seen, it's still better.

You might be a good track driver but I doubt you have a degree in engineering and an expert in arodynamic (but if you do then I apologized). Based on what that made you think Honda engineers didn't make that wing to work with the car? based on your assumptions? FYI assumption is mother of all f*ck-ups. I wouldn't want to eat my own words, so I'd rather agree with the Honda engineers.

As Confucius once said:

"When you know a thing, to hold that you know it; and when you do not know a thing, to allow that you do not know it--this is knowledge."

I don't but I work with a lot of people that do. And I have brought this up/shown the issue i'm discribing to them and they've all agreed.

I'm still not convinced that the NSX-R wings out there, replica and "real" are a real NSX-R wing. I still have more faith in Honda Engineers than that. Even though Chris @SOS said they are the same, i'm still skeptical. I'm still firmly believing that a real NSX-R wing is out there and that everything that we've seen is a poorly done copy of the original. The tops of all the replicas has a very nice profile, the underside of the wing also has a nice curvature to it (both easy to mold). But the trailing edge of the wing is terrible (the most difficult part to mold) and all the wings ive seen, their trailing edge is terrible and easy to mold/replicate.

The whole point of this thread is to find someone who has a real NSX-R wing, that actually has a proper profile, as well as to figure out if Honda indeed made a real profile (which i believe they did) -and to find it.

Sofar, only 2 small pictures (from scorp), and a video show that Honda actually made a real wing -unlike all the other 'replicas'.

Here's the DF-R wing in almost the same position, but opposite side, as the NSX-R pic John posted:

The lighting isn't as good but you can discern a slight angle where the underside of the wing transitions to the LED.

Even the replicas have this transition. But the transition is to a STRAIGHT fairly vertical trailing edge of the wing (on replicas) rather than to a curved surface that follows the curvature of the underside of the wing all the way to the trailing edge of the wing where it meets the top of the wing.

 

[BD]

Wow, then the real NSX-R wing's profile is just really bad... Worse than an EVO and STI, and probably isn't significant... I would have thought the Honda engineers would make something better than that... I'm still not 100% convinced...

Bummer, well then I just need to cut the wing and re-carbon it myself.

What is your qualification as an aerodynamist? You are now bashing JDM OEM wing which has been published by Honda of its function. Therefore, in your opinion, what is needed to be done in order to make it better than what it is? please explain!!! Please, PLEASE provide us with your academic back ground? In fact, please show me a drawing of your own design. And yes, I will accept a crayon draing from you. In fact, I will even send it to my friend who works at Honda to show them how awesome of a designer you are.

If you can't provide them... Here is Honda's publication on the NSX-R. It is written in ENGLISH, and they didn't use any big words so every one can understand it - INCLUDING YOU...lol:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

http://world.honda.com/NSX/technology/index.html


The picture posted below was Honda's adjustable NSX-R Prototype wing.

 

[RacingHeart]

Seems like your prayers have been answered. Check out Detlefs last post in the Procar specials thread:

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showpost.php?p=871224&postcount=645

Looks like he's got all versions there ever was of the R-wing and I dare to promise you - those aint replicas.

 

[stuntman]

PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE POSTING

People like Vanchu are asking questions that have been answered 2-3 times sofar. If you are unsure, then ask for clarification rather than a generalized question of 'why doesnt it work?'.

What is your qualification as an aerodynamist? You are now bashing JDM OEM wing which has been published by Honda of its function. Therefore, in your opinion, what is needed to be done in order to make it better than what it is? please explain!!!

I have absolutely no aerodynamic experience... But I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night!

In all seriousness... Holy crap. PLEASE READ MY POSTS. And do not put words into my mouth. I never once bashed the NSX-R wing. I'm explaining the problems with the replicas and quote un-quote "real" NSX-R wings for their abrupt, almost vertical trailing edge of the wing. I feel that almost all the NSX-R wings, 'real' or replica, are NOT an exact replica of a real NSX-R wing. I'm trying to find a real one, I have more faith in the Honda engineers than the wings that ive seen.

Ive worked with aerodynamicists and engineers from some of the top Grand Am and ALMS teams. And the problem with all these NSX-R wings that ive seen/that are around are that the trailing edge of the wing is STRAIGHT with roughly 60degree angle to it. The bottom of the wing has a nice, proper curvature to it, but then their is an abrupt sharp edge that turns this curve into a STRAIGHT line to connect with the top of the wing. A proper profile should have this curvature of the bottom of the wing continue to connect to the top of the wing. This aggressive angle, and the fact that its straight would cause the wing to stall out at low speeds, generating a lot of drag and not much downforce. All the 'downforce' would be generated by the little lip-up on the top side of the wing.

The NSX-R wings around have a very nice curvature, top and bottom, a nice little lip-up on the top side of the wing, but then a terrible trailing edge. So 90% of the wing is nice, but then the last 10%-the trailing edge stalls out the wing. Again, like ive said 3 times now: I think the Honda engineers made the NSX-R wing correctly and that everything that we see: replica or called 'real' is a cheaper, easier mold off of the real NSXR wing - because its easier and cheaper to make a straight trailing edge of the wing (and easier for the installation of the 3rd brake light) than to continue the proper curvature of the under side of the wing to come to a point with the top of the wing.

An EVO/STI have a proper aerodynamic profile -teardrop. Granted it dosnt generate that much downforce, its done properly and does not have a vertical, straight trailing edge of its wing.