300 whp without opening your engine?

[BBVNSX]

Is it possible to achieve 300 whp without opening your engine?

In the paper it looks like possible (see attached estimated power gains)...

I know that:

- Some of the effects of the listed mods should not be added, but combined as peak gains can occur at different RPM's...

- The power claims by some vendors can be to optimistic...

- Some of the claimed power gains can't even be confirmed on a dyno as the error margin of the equipment will always be a doubt factor...

But in real life, is it possible to get 300 whp without having to change cams, cam gears, compression... go ITB?

Is there any exemples of 300 whp NA NSX's that have only external/simple engine modifications? It would be nice to know what were the list upgrades to achieve that number... :wink:

 

[A.S. Motorsport]

paper gains aren't applicable to a random car in real live.
there are a immense amount of variables and factors that come in to play.

btw the quote of big bore TB would only be applicable to a NA2.
Do you have more details on the oil additive

I'd say 290 whp is more realistic.
Would you consider changing intake manifold gaskets opening engine?

 

[BBVNSX]

paper gains aren't applicable to a random car in real live.
there are a immense amount of variables and factors that come in to play.

btw the quote of big bore TB would only be applicable to a NA2.
Do you have more details on the oil additive

I'd say 290 whp is more realistic.
Would you consider changing intake manifold gaskets opening engine?

I don't have more details on the oil additive, only the reviews of other forums and vendor information... I think more information and oil tests must be done to confirm real benefits...

Changing intake manifold gasket would be considered a simple mod so will not consider it as opening engine.

why BBTB only applies to NA2?

 

[docjohn]

If head work is included in the without opening your engine ,and you use a mustang type dyno rather than a dynojet the answer is no.

 

[soloracer951]

Are mods cumulative like indicated? My understanding is they are not. Ie: if headers give a 12 hp gain and exhaust gives 12 hp gain combined they may only give an 18 hp gain and not 24, etc

The other thing to consider is what is meant by 300 whp. For example, if you see a peak of 300 whp at 8500 rpm but everywhere else you are making less power than stock your car will be slower. Peak numbers aren't what is important. Making more power across a broad powerband is.

 

[A.S. Motorsport]

I don't have more details on the oil additive, only the reviews of other forums and vendor information... I think more information and oil tests must be done to confirm real benefits...

Changing intake manifold gasket would be considered a simple mod so will not consider it as opening engine.

why BBTB only applies to NA2?

BBTB only works on the larger displacement of the NA2 it requires slightly more air to feed the 3.2L at 7>8.000 RPM

You could look in to phenolic gaskets to insulate the manifold from the engine's heat actual percentage is listed in a other topic in this subforum should be some where around 3-5%?

Although i'd recommend shaving the intake manifold flange and than filing the phenolic barrier so it doesn't interrupt flow to the heads.

 

[L_RAO]

It also depends on the dyno.

I tested out at 264 peak wHP at Bisimoto's, which is a Dynapak, and then, in the same configuration, I tested out at 251 peak wHP at RS-R, which is a Superflow.

I am being cautiously optimistic about my ported intake manifold/74 mm TB combo. Fastrax did not make much power with his ported IM, whereas 96cxt made about 12 wHP with his ported IM.

Next time we dyno, Brian (Prospeed) and I are going to simulate what a typical NA owner might do, sequence-wise. I already have the RDX injectors and Comptech headers, so I will:

1. Test the Prospeed cold-air intake
2. Test the Prospeed Sport exhaust
3. Test the ported intake manifold/74 mm TB
4. Test the ATI damper
5. Increase fuel pressure, and adjust the ECU tune, where appropriate

After the RS-R Ran Up, I was at 256 wHP at RS-R. If I correct by a factor of 1.05% (the correction factor from Bisimoto's to RS-R), then I should baseline at around 269 wHP...so I'm "only" 31 wHP away from 300.

I'm going to guesstimate that the intake/exhaust will be worth 14 wHP, the intake manifold will be worth 12 wHP and the damper/fuel pressure/tune will be worth 5 wHP. That would put me at 300 wHP.

 

[BBVNSX]

Are mods cumulative like indicated? My understanding is they are not. Ie: if headers give a 12 hp gain and exhaust gives 12 hp gain combined they may only give an 18 hp gain and not 24, etc

The other thing to consider is what is meant by 300 whp. For example, if you see a peak of 300 whp at 8500 rpm but everywhere else you are making less power than stock your car will be slower. Peak numbers aren't what is important. Making more power across a broad powerband is.

I agree that mods are not cumulative, see in my first post "Some of the effects of the listed mods should not be added, but combined as peak gains can occur at different RPM's..." but some of the values in the table have this in mind, for example H + E = 26 WHP wich is a value claimed by some vendors.

If we look to the list of mods i think that:

AIS UNI: Increase peak power, but better all over the powerband

BBTB: not worth it on NA1 (as A.S. Motorsport recommended) :wink:

Phenolic gaskets to insulate the manifold (as A.S. Motorsport recommended): Increase power all over the powerband

Headers: Increase power all over the powerband

Exhaust: Increase peak power (free flow could afect torque?)

RDX injectors + tune: Increase power all over the powerband (very good torque improvement to compensate some free flow losses?)

ATI Super Damper: Increase peak power but better all over the powerband

Ran UP: Increase power all over the powerband


I think hp gains would be all over the powerband (with a good improvement on peak too) and not compromising drivability...

i couldn't agree more that peak numbers aren't what is important, but 300 whp sounds really good...:biggrin:

 

[A.S. Motorsport]

More flow in the exhaust will allow more top end power, but it will come at a cost of low end torque if you go to far (eg. 3 inch diameter) that torque isn't lost it's just moved up the power band.

AIS UNI, I'd add a downforce stack intake to that.
Light weight flywheel (JUN makes a very good one) would also improve throttle response.

What ECU upgrades are you planning a stock ECU modified ether via Chip or complete stand alone (I'd start with the chip)
Think about further packaging,
- Transmission < gearing
- Rotating & unsprung mass < wheels & tires, flywheel etc

 

[BBVNSX]

I haven't decided about the exhaust... but i will have to keep my cats or i won't pass the anual inspection...

Headers i decided that i'll go with KSP... pricy but they look like a piece of art

DF stack added to the list... :biggrin:

June W/L Flywheel is also in my wishlist, i didn't add that to the numbers in power gains, but could i expect some peak gains with this flywheel like with ATI damper?

About the ECU upgrade, I'm thinking about the chip, but this will be the last upgrade along with RDX injectors because i want to take advantage of all the mods to do the tune.

My NSX is 93 EUDM MT so i already have the short 5 speed gears...

I have OEM 95+ 16/17 wheels wich i'll upgarde to 17/18 Prodrive GC-07 or Advans RS 17/18... this would allow the possibility to go with bigger brakes or bbk in the future if i want to without adding more weight...

But this is a long ($$$$) term wishlist...:biggrin:

 

[UnhuZ]

Hi,

I haven't decided about the exhaust... but i will have to keep my cats or i won't pass the anual inspection...

well... i'm selling a Advance Titanium which is ultra lightweight (6.5Kg) and by it's design, it's one of the few that gives more power to our NSX :wink:

and for the cats, you can have a set of test pipes done and only install cats for the yearly inspection :wink:

BTW, there is a S2000 meeting on Nov 3rd in Coimbra/Figueira da Foz ...i'll go and another black NSX is confirmed (possible a couple more)

Nuno

 

[kookoo4nsx]

How much HP is gained by removing the A/C?

 

[gsrboy]

double post

 

[gsrboy]

Just take the belt off and you will see if there is a difference or not. The weight saving would be much better than the HP you will gain. The combination of both you will see/feel the difference.

 

[foundry3]

Are ITB's on the table?

 

[tbnsxt]

you could also jet hot coat the entire exhaust system to scavenge another couple percent of power gain.

 

[BBVNSX]

Hi,



well... i'm selling a Advance Titanium which is ultra lightweight (6.5Kg) and by it's design, it's one of the few that gives more power to our NSX :wink:

and for the cats, you can have a set of test pipes done and only install cats for the yearly inspection :wink:

BTW, there is a S2000 meeting on Nov 3rd in Coimbra/Figueira da Foz ...i'll go and another black NSX is confirmed (possible a couple more)

Nuno

I've sent you a PM

Bruno

 

[BBVNSX]

Are ITB's on the table?

ITB not in the table... as i'm thinking about simple ($$$$:biggrin upgrades...

 

[A.S. Motorsport]

you can remove cats and then reinstall them for the annual inspection, thats quite common

 

[kookoo4nsx]

Not to piss on anyones cornflakes, but if it WAS possible to do 300 rwhp without opening up the motor, surely 2012 technology would have made it possible.

H/E Injectors gives the most free hp. Everything else only adds up to less HP cumulative than you have toes and fingers.

 

[L_RAO]

Not to piss on anyones cornflakes, but if it WAS possible to do 300 rwhp without opening up the motor, surely 2012 technology would have made it possible.

H/E Injectors gives the most free hp. Everything else only adds up to less HP cumulative than you have toes and fingers.

Yeah, the NSX motor is handicapped from the factory with these "impairments":

1. Low compression (10.2:1)
2. Low lift on their "high" cam lobe (10.2 mm)

Those are areas of improvement that would require opening the engine.

However, there are still some areas for improvement, IMHO:

1. Better headers
2. Better injectors (done)
3. Better intake manifold/throttle body combination (working on it)

Is 300 wHP doable with just bolt-ons? We'll see!

 

[doc_tai]

Yeah thanks to gentlements agreement bs that jdm had till 04. Make me believe thats one of the reason Japanese stop making sport car.

 

[A.S. Motorsport]

Nissan and Toyota cheated constantly (GTR @ 320HP, Supra @ 300HP)
Mitsubishi, Mazda, Subaru & Honda played fair. (except the 320HP Mazda Cosmo)

 

[Nero Tenebre]

But those aren't Whp numbers at least. Didn't Honda cheat in the NSX-R at least?? By then they had to know something was up.

 

[Osiris_x11]

USDM J-vin...

Yeah thanks to gentlements agreement bs that jdm had till 04. Make me believe thats one of the reason Japanese stop making sport car.

Nissan and Toyota cheated constantly (GTR @ 320HP, Supra @ 300HP)
Mitsubishi, Mazda, Subaru & Honda played fair. (except the 320HP Mazda Cosmo)

But those aren't Whp numbers at least. Didn't Honda cheat in the NSX-R at least?? By then they had to know something was up.

Here's the output of USDM J-vin sports-cars from the '90s...

'91-'96 Acura NSX [NA1-5spd] - 270bhp
'97-'05 Acura NSX [NA2] - 290bhp
'93-'99 Mazda RX7 TT [FD] - 276bhp
'90-'96 Nissan 300ZX TT [Z32] - 300bhp
'93-'98 Toyota Supra TT [MKIV] - 320bhp
'97-'99 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4 - 325bhp

Only other similar era "high" HP USDM J-vin models I can think of...

'90-'96 Infiniti Q45 (276bhp)
'98-'00 Lexus LS400 (290hp)
'98-'00 Lexus SC400 (290hp)
'98-'05 Lexus GS400 (300bhp)

Any others that I didn't mention (ie. +280bhp / 276SAE)?

The '92-'94 NSX-R was 280bhp, correct?