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Anyone considering a Subaru BRZ or Scion FRS?

It would have been interesting to see how a forced-induction modded BRZ with 300hp would have fared.

It's amazing how far the tuners have gotten with the new FA20 engine. The top RWHP so far is about is 430. And that is on stock internals - but beefed up clutch and I/H/E.

-J
 
Picked mine up this wknd. It's everything I expected and then some. All the reviews were right on. Relax... my expectations were realistic :)

I'm happy to provide feedback on my experience with the 200hp 2.0L Boxer, <2800lb, 6AT Paddle Shifter (which is pretty damn sophisticated) if anyone else is considering this vehicle for purchase.

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No, I don't need your feedback. Just hand me the key and I will find out myself. :biggrin:

You got a white one too.... I am jealous, though, I will probably smoke you when I get my Ford Focus ST.

Picked mine up this wknd. It's everything I expected and then some. All the reviews were right on. Relax... my expectations were realistic :)

I'm happy to provide feedback on my experience with the 200hp 2.0L Boxer, <2800lb, 6AT Paddle Shifter (which is pretty damn sophisticated) if anyone else is considering this vehicle for purchase.

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Nice white BRZ! I'm trying to find a local FRS/BRZ owner who will let me test drive his/her car in exchange for a drive in my NSX.
 
No, I don't need your feedback. Just hand me the key and I will find out myself. :biggrin:

You got a white one too.... I am jealous, though, I will probably smoke you when I get my Ford Focus ST.
I can't wait for you to try! :tongue:
(great choice there btw!!)

Nice white BRZ! I'm trying to find a local FRS/BRZ owner who will let me test drive his/her car in exchange for a drive in my NSX.
Wow, both cars drive surprisingly very different. My CTSC NSX is a thrill. The BRZ is a joy. There's a distinct difference. They compliment each other very well. Neither is a good replacement for the other.

My only surprise with this car is how good the 6AT is. I knew it was decent before going in but you realize pretty darn sophisticated after your first 1000 miles.
 
Picked mine up this wknd. It's everything I expected and then some. All the reviews were right on. Relax... my expectations were realistic :)

I'm happy to provide feedback on my experience with the 200hp 2.0L Boxer, <2800lb, 6AT Paddle Shifter (which is pretty damn sophisticated) if anyone else is considering this vehicle for purchase.

Did you get it for MSRP? I know most Scion dealers are forcing options on the FRS and most Subaru dealers are charging over MSRP here in the Bay Area.
 
Nice white BRZ! I'm trying to find a local FRS/BRZ owner who will let me test drive his/her car in exchange for a drive in my NSX.

I'm guessing you'll be offering the red one and not your prized Kaiser or MPB right? :tongue:

I joined the FT86 forums and I'll be going to the next local meet to check out the FRS in person. I don't think I'll be letting them ride in my NSX though...
 
I joined the FT86 forums and I'll be going to the next local meet to check out the FRS in person. I don't think I'll be letting them ride in my NSX though...

Ride, maybe. No test drives though. :wink:
 
I'm guessing you'll be offering the red one and not your prized Kaiser or MPB right? :tongue:

I joined the FT86 forums and I'll be going to the next local meet to check out the FRS in person. I don't think I'll be letting them ride in my NSX though...
Every one of my NSXs is a prized posession! Which forum did you register on? I'd like to check it out.

I'm sure you'll find someone after the drive to swap cars with you :biggrin:
Probably :D
 
Did you get it for MSRP? I know most Scion dealers are forcing options on the FRS and most Subaru dealers are charging over MSRP here in the Bay Area.
This is the first MSRP car i've ever paid for. But man... the extra $1200 to get it months early (before prices go down) is absolutely worth it. It just started raining here in LA and i'm guilty of pulling out a few power slides (shhhhhhhh!). I think MSRP deals can be had but you need to go out of state. CA is just crazy right now. Puente Hills Subaru still wants $6500 over MSRP for any of their allocations in the next couple of months. They are on crack. The Scion FR-S is much easier to find. Only about 1/3 of all Toyobarus made are allocated to Subie.

Get this... I've spent about $2.2k on wheels, tires, lowering springs (the car has great stock dampers), and a oem rear view camera, clear bra, and other random stuff. My NSX coilovers cost me more than that alone!!

I'll let anyone I trust drive it. *Be warned.. for $26k and ~33mpg.. you're going to want one.

Here's how she looks now. Doesn't she look like a baby Aston Martin? I'll take that shaken, not stirred.
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btw... Toyota is lucky they are using a boxer engine and partnered up with Subaru here. The Subaru aftermarket support is way more robust and mature than that of Toyota. Just imagine there are about 10 Scienceofspeed level vendors catering to Subarus (and by association the FRS) but they don't sell at SOS level prices.

Grimmspeed, Perrin, Crawford, and not to mention JDMs like Cusco, Greddy, HKS, are heavily supporting this platform with high quality parts. It's a car guys playground. You just have to be willing to accept that in about 2yrs time they'll be as common as Civics were 8yrs ago.
 
I paid MSRP. Would never pay more than list. That is why I didn't buy the NSX in 1991.

-J
 
This is the first MSRP car i've ever paid for. But man... the extra $1200 to get it months early (before prices go down) is absolutely worth it. It just started raining here in LA and i'm guilty of pulling out a few power slides (shhhhhhhh!). I think MSRP deals can be had but you need to go out of state. CA is just crazy right now. Puente Hills Subaru still wants $6500 over MSRP for any of their allocations in the next couple of months. They are on crack. The Scion FR-S is much easier to find. Only about 1/3 of all Toyobarus made are allocated to Subie.

Get this... I've spent about $2.2k on wheels, tires, lowering springs (the car has great stock dampers), and a oem rear view camera, clear bra, and other random stuff. My NSX coilovers cost me more than that alone!!

I'll let anyone I trust drive it. *Be warned.. for $26k and ~33mpg.. you're going to want one.

Here's how she looks now. Doesn't she look like a baby Aston Martin? I'll take that shaken, not stirred.
229328_10151139110591588_1581191593_n.jpg
That's some gorgeous pocket rocket here. The wannabe poser racers who got no driving skill but just a heavy right foot and 500 hp will never understand the beauty of a well balanced car with "just" 200 hp. This Toyobarus is a true winner. What kind of wheels are these? 18 inchers?
Steve
 
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That's some gorgeous pocket rocket here. The wannabe poser racers who got no driving skill but just a heavy right foot and 500 hp will never understand the beauty of a well balanced car with "just" 200 hp. This Toyobarus is a true winner. What kind of wheels are these? 18 inchers?
Steve

True True...
 
Everything about the Cayman I love more than the BRZ except the maintenance/warranty issue. For a car I plan to beat on it just seems a car like a Porsche isn't the most financially sound idea. Would love to be proven wrong. We all know the Cayman provides more parking lot bravado at the very least.

I would buy a Porsche Cayman today, this afternoon, if I thought they were reliable. A friend of mine had one, and after only 20,000 miles it started leaking oil onto the driveway. Everyone knows 911 engines are junk. I think boxsters are supposed to be more reliable, but you still never see any with 200,000 miles on them.
Especially used, I wouldn't able to sleep at night owning a Porsche w/o a warranty.
 
That's some gorgeous pocket rocket here. The wannabe poser racers who got no driving skill but just a heavy right foot and 500 hp will never understand the beauty of a well balanced car with "just" 200 hp. This Toyobarus is a true winner. What kind of wheels are these? 18 inchers?
Steve
Thanks Steve! These are XXR 530s, 18x8.75" all around. 4lbs lighter than stock but that's not saying much because the stock wheels are heavy. HP needs to be earned and gained with respected imho. This car will help people become a better driver. However, there's still bunch of kids crashing them now so.. there goes my insurance rates!
I would buy a Porsche Cayman today, this afternoon, if I thought they were reliable. A friend of mine had one, and after only 20,000 miles it started leaking oil onto the driveway. Everyone knows 911 engines are junk. I think boxsters are supposed to be more reliable, but you still never see any with 200,000 miles on them.
Especially used, I wouldn't able to sleep at night owning a Porsche w/o a warranty.
I agree. The Porsche is certainly the marginally better sportscar; no doubt, however, when you start making a pros/cons list, given my need for a daily driver, the bulletproof longevity of the parts on this car edges out a win. I'm also not getting rid of the NSX so I thought having a Cayman and an NSX was too much overlap. I was coming from considering a Prius on one side and a GT-R on the other spectrum (I wanted an Automatic). The automatic in this car is brilliant though the 6MT is better. It's still a torque converter 6AT so it's bulletproof but not as fast shifting as a PDK or DSG but it's darn good enough. The shifting algorithm in Sport mode is like Race mode. It knows when i'm late braking and knows when i'm about to pull a hard right hander. It will rev-match shift and not upset the car's balance --- BRILLIANT. Sorry if i've already said this before in another post.
Beautiful car. What made you choose the Subaru over the scion? Are they identical except for the badge?
If you're willing to pay a little bit more the Subaru is much better equipped. For $1000~ more you get HIDs, Daytime LEDs, Technology package (Nav, Sat, BT, Divx video, and $150 gets you rearview camera). Another $1500~ gets you heated seats, auto climate control, alcanterra, etc...The Scion is truly barebones in comparison which is fine if you want to do all the upgrading yourself or on a strict budget.

The conceptual design and project management was from Toyota but it's engineered and built by Subaru with Subie engine and suspension therefore I prefer Subaru mechanics to work on my car. I also think the BRZ looks much better but that's just opinion.

An interesting and rather subjective phenom is that the "ricer/hellaflush" community have gravitated to the FR-S and the "racer" community to the BRZ. YMMV. I see threads all the time where some HS/college kid is trying hard to qualify for financing for a Scion whereas the in-depth suspension threads are started by guys with a BRZ. It's an interesting mix...
 
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btw.. to be fair. This car has bad points.

* Rear seats are to used only as a last resort
* Cabin noise is noticeable. Can be improved with better tire selection
* It's a 5x100 wheel bolt pattern. Wheel selections are currently limited but soon to be a non-issue I suppose as it's driving sales for the aftermarket right now.
* Center console armrest. Where the heck is it??? GRRRRRR
* Suspension lacks adjustment points from the factory. You're left exploring aftermarket options
* Stock tires are really terrible
* Stock brakes are only merely ok for a full day of HPDE, yet matches well to the equally crappy tires
* The base model climate control is clunky. Not as good as a base model climate control in my 2004 Toyota Tacoma even. They must have used the Subaru parts here.
* Missing "oh shit" bars so I have no where to hang my sport coat for those James Bond nights out in the town.
* The center console area where my right knee rests against needs padding. Sometimes on a very tight turn I use my knees to brace myself.. it hurts in that area even though the seats themselves are great.
* Poor placement of cig lighter socket. Again, center console improvements needed!!

Notice, the lack of power isn't one of them.
 
I know there are people who use the Cayman as a DD; here in Michigan that just isn't a possibility! The BRZ would be a cool DD; it would get better gas mileage than my MazSpeed3 (albeit slower and less practical), and could double for autoX use too!

Up here in The D, I'd see a Cayman as more of a summer car, which is where the NSX sits in my world. Hence my interest in the "experience" between the two as hlakhani had mentioned earlier.... not that I am looking to repalce the NSX, but more out of curiosity.

RYU, congrats on the new ride! It's looking beautiful:biggrin: I never did get my callback on my black limited that I had on preorder, though :confused:

As for the cayman, I got a manual and have been DDing it for some time now. I actually jumped into the NSX for the first time in about 2 months last week. Suffice to say, I was kicking myself about 2 minutes into the drive for not getting out in the NSX more with the great weather we've had lately. Anyway, onto the differences (in my personal opinion), at least in day-to-day driving:

1) Controls/Ergonomics/Etc.
We all know about the unique driving position of the NSX. The Cayman is much more 'traditional' with a lower seat and higher beltline. I feel both cars have pretty good visibility, with the NSX having better frontal visibility but the Cayman having better rear visibility. The hatchback and attached rear deck, combined with the lower seat and extra headroom makes the Cayman feel MUCH larger inside than the NSX. It's still very cozy, but the "airiness" of the Cayman cabin is nice at times, especially with passengers.

2) Clutch/Shifter
The pedal feel on the cayman is much heavier. At first this bothered me, but having gotten used to it and actually prefer it to the NSX's pedal. I think if you're sitting in traffic, the NSX pedal may be better though.

The shifter in the NSX is very short, with a narrow gate, and what I'd describe as a bolt-action. I also have a SSK and counter-sunk knob for my NSX, which exaggerate these characteristics. My Cayman is a 6 speed, but doesn't have the optional SSK. As a result, the throws are longer, and the gate is wider as well. This makes every shift feel more deliberate, but the shifter is damped in a way that make you enjoy shifting just the same. It's not quite as good as my old s2000, but it's in the same league.

3) Steering feel
My NSX has all the noncompliance goodies, chassis bars, swaybars, and coilovers, and is generally set up for a somewhat aggressive ride. I feel everything (and not in a bad way), turn in is great and feels sharp/quick, etc. My cayman has a refreshed stock suspension (from PO). Compared to the NSX, the steering is heavier weighted and doesn't feel as though it's boosted (I have an NSX with power steering). Turn in doesn't feel as sharp/quick with the Cayman, but I feel like it may actually rotate more easily at will. The rear suspension geometry doesn't feel as supple, especially when you feel hops mid-turn due to poor road surfaces, but I learned to trust it and it's VERY stable.

The NSX seems to make you work for things and is very rewarding along the way, where the Cayman seems to do them just as well, with possibly less effort, but less drama too.

4) Engine
My NSX has a unifilter and AP-X exhaust, but is otherwise stock. The Cayman S has a softronic ECU flash which enables 'sport' mode, essentially quicker throttle response that would come as part of the PSE package.

When I first got the Cayman I loved the powerband, it feels like there's more torque, and it's very easy to keep the powerband low. Like the V6 in the NSX, the flat 6 in the Porsches is something special when it comes to the soundtrack. The Porsche seems to operate in different octaves depending on RPM, all of which are pleasant. When the NSX's V6 is singing, it sounds amazing, but the drone under 3k is not as pleasant, at least to me.

After driving my Cayman so much, I'd really gotten used to the driving characteristics of the car. Perhaps the biggest surprise for me was getting back into the NSX and realizing, "WOW THIS MOTOR IS SMOOTH, AND THE POWERBAND-- IT'S SO, SO, LINEAR!" This may sound as though it conflicts with my sentiments about the Cayman, and its great, usable powerband, but it's really just a testament to what a gem the NSX's motor is.

Despite this, at least for me, I drive these cars very differently. I shift in my cayman at just under 3k, while I'd shift in my NSX at around 4.5k (for non-aggressive driving). I also cruise on roads at 45 in 5th (or even 6th) gear -- which can be as low as ~1500 rpm -- in the cayman, but wouldn't consider doing that in the NSX. As linear as the NSX's V6 is, it still feels a bit gutless at < 3k. Combined with the drone, keeping the NSX at higher RPMs is easier, more convenient, etc.

5) Overall experience
The Cayman is a great car, but the NSX just feels more special. There are tons of people who drive their NSXs daily, and I could be one of them, but honestly don't think it's best suited for that. The Cayman has easier ingress/egress, MUCH more cargo room (and interior storage!), a larger cabin, has no issues with driveways/speedbumps, and just generally feels like a more 'normal' car. Its popularity and dimensions also make it less of a 'risk' with all the soccer moms out there.

For me, I feel I have the perfect combination of a fun daily driver that I wouldn't cry about if/when something happens to it, and an amazing, very special car to take out on weekends. While their performance is similar enough for me to call it a wash, the driving experience and characteristics of each car shines through with their intended uses.
 
oh yeah, as far as reliability and maintenance on a porsche, I would say it's less than a BMW/Mercedes/Audi, and about on par with an NSX, if not less.

The maintenance intervals are longer, and there are fewer parts that need replacing. Parts are cheap and the cars are pretty easy to work on, though there are are a lot of good independents that do work for a decent rate.

Porsches got a really bad rep for engine failures due to IMS failures, but this was not as widespread as it has been implied. If you're going to do a lot of track duty with some of these IMS equipped Porsches, it's worth taking preventative measures to safeguard the motor. This is the same mentality many Primers have with their NSXs (oil pan baffle, etc.).

For what it's worth, my Cayman does not have a warranty (though I considered purchasing 3rd party warranty coverage and passed), and I've only put about 7k miles on it in the past 3 months. I did my due diligence with PPIs and plan to maintain it as needed, but understand that I need to "pay to play"; this is NOT a honda civic. So far, no problems though :)

That said, I agree that If anyone is considering a Porsche, a CPO Porsche is THE way to go. Arguably the best warranty possible and you don't have to pay the new-car premium.

Now, if only I could figure out how to get 33 MPG like RYU :(
 
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