Comparison to Nissan GT-R

[EuroBoutique]

I think put another way, the GTR and NSX are both Japanese cult cars that will always have a following. There will be a group that understands and loves these cars and other that will never understand the reasons behind it.

Just like F-cars, Lambo's, there is a thread on the Porsche forum over at 6-speed about the GTR vs. 997 Turbo debate. A lot of P-car owners will never give the Nissan the light of day even when beat on the racetrack and most likely those are the people who only care about racing heritage. But there is a group that identifies that Porsche has a problem because you can't win over new clients based on what you did in your PAST! You have to stay on top of your game and right now a $80k Nissan is killing the $140k turbo. Sure the GT2 version might beat it but it's almost $190k+

As everyone here knows, the GTR will spank the NSX in every category for performance but I will still ove my NSX for quite some time. We buy cars not for just quarter mile times or track times but the excitement it gives us. I've never been more excited to buy a car so that alone is justification for me to own it.

I do have to admit I'm VERY curious about the GTR and hope to get to drive it one day. When Nissan decides to include a manual tranny, I may even want one someday since I think in Japan there are only 3 true sport cars that have iconic / legendary status. It's hard to talk about one of these cars without bringing up the other two....

1) MKIV Supra
2) Skyline R34, now GTR
3) Acura NSX

Let me know if I missed any but those are the cars in my book


rick

 

[s14_tat]

I think put another way, the GTR and NSX are both Japanese cult cars that will always have a following. There will be a group that understands and loves these cars and other that will never understand the reasons behind it.

Just like F-cars, Lambo's, there is a thread on the Porsche forum over at 6-speed about the GTR vs. 997 Turbo debate. A lot of P-car owners will never give the Nissan the light of day even when beat on the racetrack and most likely those are the people who only care about racing heritage. But there is a group that identifies that Porsche has a problem because you can't win over new clients based on what you did in your PAST! You have to stay on top of your game and right now a $80k Nissan is killing the $140k turbo. Sure the GT2 version might beat it but it's almost $190k+

As everyone here knows, the GTR will spank the NSX in every category for performance but I will still ove my NSX for quite some time. We buy cars not for just quarter mile times or track times but the excitement it gives us. I've never been more excited to buy a car so that alone is justification for me to own it.

I do have to admit I'm VERY curious about the GTR and hope to get to drive it one day. When Nissan decides to include a manual tranny, I may even want one someday since I think in Japan there are only 3 true sport cars that have iconic / legendary status. It's hard to talk about one of these cars without bringing up the other two....

1) MKIV Supra
2) Skyline R34, now GTR
3) Acura NSX
4) Mazda RX-7
5) Mitsubishi EVO
6) Subaru STi

Let me know if I missed any but those are the cars in my book


rick

Fixed :biggrin: I've been drooling over the EVO's and STi's since the mid 90's.

 

[gene]

GTR looks to me like a cross between a new mustang and a 350 z....not my style, though I guess it is for some

 

[s14_tat]

GTR looks to me like a cross between a new mustang and a 350 z....not my style, though I guess it is for some

Not to nitpick, but where do you see a mustang in there? The 350z, or the EVO 10 I can definitely understand but a mustang? If you said the new mustang looks like the 60's mustang than I can see what your saying. You can't compare a retro tracing paper car with a fresh from the ground up design. No fake scoops or side intakes on this car ( mustang ), the GTR was always about function first, then form second hence its look.

 

[sahtt]

You know you are doing something right when everyone finds something wrong with it.

This is the closest to a 91 NSX debut we've seen since. The similarities are staggering if you take the time to analyze them. Times have changed as have resources and how goals must be met. I don't know if a 70k MR n/a car can ever do what the GTR has already done. The game is always changing but it remains the same. You have to extract the absolute maximum from limited resources to make it faster, stronger, and cheaper. When you can accomplish all of those things, you can't be too picky with what the end result is IMO.

 

[stuntman]

My writeup:

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101802&highlight=gtr+huge

No denying its fast. Gonna go drive it again tomorrow...

 

[usafdarkhorse]

You are absolutely correct. The GT-R is the second most significant Japanese high end sports car introduced to America after the NSX. Nissan has reset new standards in terms of performance envelope and engineering breakthrough with the new GT-R following the footsteps of Honda. The GT-R is a bargain for such a quality machine. Just looking at all the high end materials and parts in this car is amazing. The parts alone if purchased separately would probably equal close to the value of the car. I don't see how Nissan is making much money selling it at $70,000. If you factor in the upfront cost of R&D, testing and manufacturing infrastructure then it is really a fantastic bargain. If I have the cash, I would buy it now. But, I would not sell my NSX though. The NSX symbolizes technology from Honda F1 dominant race cars. The GT-R symbolizes brute strength dominance period. One is a beautiful light weight mid engine formula street car and the other is a huge thundering powerful beast muscle car. Both are unique just like Shaq and Kobe.

Actually I'd say that the most significant Japanese introduction to the US market would be Mr. K's creation, the 240Z.

And as much as I'd like to say the NSX was the most significant, people have been waiting for the GTR to come to America for longer than the NSX was produced. While the NSX was born from F1, the purpose of the GTR from its conception ( newer generation R32 GTRs circa 89 ) was to race and it did so by going undefeated in Group A racing.
Even looking at SuperGT standings, Nissan has done very well with the GTRs and Fairladys while the NSX has often struggled against competitors ( although it does better in the wet ... SuperGT GTRs have not been AWD ). This may also be due to a lack of factory support, especially since they still race the NSX and it has been out of production for 3 years.

Just wait here in about 6 years when the R32 GTRs will start to qualify for DOT road use due to being a classic vehicle. There are already older KPGC10s riding on US roads.

 

[usafdarkhorse]

I think it is silly for NSX owners to use "emotion" or "soul" as a knock on the GT-R. It represent's Nissan's vision for a supercar. It certainly has the performance to back it up.

Here in Austin - I doubt I see an Infiniti M car every week. I saw one yesterday for the first time in a long time. I also do not see RLs often. Austin is dominated by BMW sedans. 3 series everywhere. Many M-Bs and Audis. Lots of G35s. Hordes of Camrys and Accords.

I actually see Infiniti M's here in Knoxville quite frequently along with those FX crossovers and see very few of the RLs.

BMWs are everywhere, saturated almost. I see nothing particularly special about your 323i Mr. I Don't Use My Turn Signals Because People Should Watch For Me.

 

[PhiAlpha44]

I do not like honda's philosophy when it comes to building cars. They are a very very stubborn company, they are still sticking to their FWD crap in their premium brand trying to play it off pretending to be a real BMW fighter while infiniti has been building RWD and totally elimated the FWD platform from their premium brand.

The RL is a joke of a car when you compare it to a M45 or the 5 series. Hell even hyundai is eatting honda's lunch now becasue of the new genesis platform. RWD, turbo 4, V6, V8 ? you betcha.

Look how they let the NSX whither away and die a slow quiet death and the same fate is happening to the S2K, that car was sensational when it debut, but they only had 2 small improvements over its what? almost 8-9 year life span? The 350Z had numerous improvements and literally smokes the S2000 now.

All of their cars are generally torqueless and are slow, they make great economy cars with great resale with great finesse, but they lack the power that nissan injects into all of their line up.

Lets talk trucks now? Do they have any full frame trucks with a V8? What honda has is a pretender, basically a raised minivan. When the Titan came out, it was smoking Hemi's left and right but looks nicer, have a better interior, cost less, and better engineering.

And how about NSX? Where is the NSX now, does Honda seriously think that current NSX owners are going to settle for that abomination? They fell so far behind in this game vs Lexus and Nissan by not even knowing where to take the design direction to. While Nissan is already coming out with the V-spec R35 GTR that is currently 15 seconds faster then the prototype ZR-1 Vette when they both were being unofficially timed at the Nurbergring by photographers.

Need I say more why I hated this company since highschool? Give me a S14 over a integra, give me a B13 Se-r over a Civic Si, give me a 3.5 alima over a accord, give me a max over the TL give me a M45 over the RL, give me a Titan over the ridgeline, and give me a 350Z over the S2000 ( not even close with this one esp when you compare the VQ35HR powered ones )

The only cars that honda I feel makes better than nissan is the Honda Fit ( brilliant car ) and the NSX over the Z32 TT, I would put the NSX in the same regards as I do with the GTR.


I would proudly wear a Honda sucks t-shirt while driving my NSX or a NISMO t-shirt. God I get so angry just thinking about Honda. *spit*
*getting off soap box*

Dude... wow. :frown: Seriously.... I LOVE HONDA! I've got a 900RR, a 1000RR, an RC51, an Aquatrax, a Honda 4 wheeler and the NSX. And I've told friends if Honda built a descent truck I'd have it too... but instead I've got an Avalanche because I don't want a truck body on a CRV frame. I don't know what to say. Honda is my baby and he just gunned it down and I really have no rebuttle. Basically everything he said was true. :frown: I'm sad now. I'm going to bed. :wink:

 

[sahtt]

Dude... wow. :frown: Seriously.... I LOVE HONDA! I've got a 900RR, a 1000RR, an RC51, an Aquatrax, a Honda 4 wheeler and the NSX. And I've told friends if Honda built a descent truck I'd have it too... but instead I've got an Avalanche because I don't want a truck body on a CRV frame. I don't know what to say. Honda is my baby and he just gunned it down and I really have no rebuttle. Basically everything he said was true. :frown: I'm sad now. I'm going to bed. :wink:

Yep, they have their good and bad points, just like every other automaker. I've had just about everything besides Honda trucks and I've been very satisfied. While the 240sx is a lot more fun to drive than an integra/civic, for instance, the fact is the 240 is severely underpowered with the stock KA motor even compared to a lowly integra GSR. More fun to drive no doubt, but they are hard as hell to find in decent shape because production was so low and if you do find a clean one it's $$$ for what you get.

I also prefer the s2000 over the 350z but I see both sides of the argument. Regardless the z has sold well over a million and the s2000 is still trying to crack 100,000 with more years of production. The v6 accord has more than enough power for daily driving even if the altima/maxima is more powerful.

No comment on the truck situation because I haven't driven the ridgeline, but I agree with what he said. I have heard the ridgeline is simply aimed at a different crowd then say a tundra/titan and it's a little apple to oranges.

I had a 300zx turbo and it was my first dream car. I never saw the 350z as strong improvement though performance wise.

My CBR's have been awesome bikes and I'd recommend a civic over a sentra anyday to normal people. Honda has consistently missed the enthusiast crowd (most of us), no doubt about that.

 

[N Spec]

The market is actively changing and re-defining itself. You can't compare a GTR to an EVO or STi the same as you can't compare the NSX to the GTR. The GTR is in a class of its own that is not the same as the EVO or STi. The GTR is much more sophisticated and refined than the EVOs or Stis. The NSX is more sophisticated and refined than the GTR.

The only thing that the NSX and GTR have in common is setting the bar, and embarassing the European competition, causing them to scramble and play catch up. The C6 did this a few years ago, but somehow, it does not generate the same following. Probably because they sell well and so they became the not-so-coveted whore of the industry. Or maybe because it's still a Chevy.

The NSX came out in the beginning of the 90s and out-performed and out-designed Porsche's and Ferrrari's equivalent for a lower price. All of this was accomplished by a NA V6 making 270 hp that's not that doesn't require a tune up every couple of thousand miles. It took Ferrari nearly a decade to obtain the same dollar-per-DESIGN quality that the NSX offered, as in if you are paying 100k+ for a car, it should definely look and feel more refined. It is simply not just about having the most exotic materials like CF or AL, it about the form of that these materials take that make them so special. The NSX has one of the most beautiful and elegant forms.

This is mostly due to the fact that it stands 46 inches stock and it evokes the most exciting emotion that any male in right mind could not deny when seen in person. Think about it, it hugs the ground with a stance that lets you know I will go fast and it surely will. The GTR stands 53 inches tall and says, I am easy to get into, and I'm easy to drive, so buy me old guys. I don't look fast, but boy o boy are you in for a ride. And I am willing to bit that people still complain about headspace like they do with the 55 inch tall G37. How this is possible? I do not know.

If the GTR stood under 50 inches, hell shoot for 48 inches (Nissan you had this right with the Z32 300ZX), it would be a totally different car. Also, if the center console was more refined in design, then I guarantee that 75% of the owners here would be on the waiting list to own one. But it doesn't, instead it looks like a truncated sedan, like any other quasi-coupes in the market today. This is one of the reasons why the Corvette still looks pretty badass on the exterior, because it still retains the low, wind slicing form even though safety regulations are so stringent these days. The 350Z fell to the taller height and it's still un-safe as hell while looking like a Porsche wanabe, and that's not saying much.

You can't expect a car to look badass when it stands like a damn sedan. That's why no one here feels passionate about the GTR and please stop saying the EVO or STi evokes passion because they don't. You cannot evoke passion standing over 55 inches. Well not the same kind of passion, more of a I can go really fast for a dirt cheap price in a mid-size sedan. It's the irony of the situation that makes it novel.

 

[KSXNSX]

I really like the GTR for its performance. It is not a sexy car like the NSX, but it is aggressive.

I wouldn't replace the NSX with a GTR, but I would consider supplementing it with the GTR if I had the money.

I recently test-drove an IS-F and I was completely under-whelmed. Sure the power was there, but it really wasn't all that amazing. There is just something about the NSX that jades you for the rest of your life. All other cars will be compared to it, but none will ever match it. The feeling is just unique.

 

[shrddr]

I find it interesting that when the F-car owners justification of superiority is based on "emotion" we would roll our eyes. Now when the NSX owners use the same "emotion" argument over the GTR, it now becomes acceptable.

bingo.

 

[NSXFRIEND]

The GTR cleary idolized Porsche.

1. all wheel drive
2. 6 twin turbo

but.. failed in the weight catagory, and is not high reving. Funny Nissan did not disclose the weight on their website.

It does not meet my needs, it will never scream like a Ferrari or NSX, and is beastly heavy irrespective of its handeling capibilties.

Yes it is rewarding fast and can be daily driven like a Porsche but it is not an exotic in the sense of "emotional-rethoric", sorry I would rathe have a Mid-4.

This is Nissan at its finest point soft mixture between the Porsche 959, the Ferrari Testarossa

http://www.zhome.com/History/MID-4.htm

 

[usafdarkhorse]

The GTR cleary idolized Porsche.

1. all wheel drive
2. 6 twin turbo

but.. failed in the weight catagory, and is not high reving. Funny Nissan did not disclose the weight on their website.

It does not meet my needs, it will never scream like a Ferrari or NSX, and is beastly heavy irrespective of its handeling capibilties.

Yes it is rewarding fast and can be daily driven like a Porsche but it is not an exotic in the sense of "emotional-rethoric", sorry I would rathe have a Mid-4.

This is Nissan at its finest point soft mixture between the Porsche 959, the Ferrari Testarossa

http://www.zhome.com/History/MID-4.htm

The GTR was AWD turbo before the 911 turbo.

 

[swerve2007]

reportedly the gtr scales at 'well above' 3800 lbs. i bet close to 4000 lbs wet.
thats a tank allright.

 

[NSXFRIEND]

The GTR was AWD turbo before the 911 turbo.

Porsche has been doing all wheel drive since early 80's with their 959's, followed by C4 late 90, then 993 turbo 96, then 996 01, then 997.

swerve 4000lbs sounds exciting.:biggrin:

 

[hofffam]

Dude... wow. :frown: Seriously.... I LOVE HONDA! I've got a 900RR, a 1000RR, an RC51, an Aquatrax, a Honda 4 wheeler and the NSX. And I've told friends if Honda built a descent truck I'd have it too... but instead I've got an Avalanche because I don't want a truck body on a CRV frame. I don't know what to say. Honda is my baby and he just gunned it down and I really have no rebuttle. Basically everything he said was true. :frown: I'm sad now. I'm going to bed. :wink:

I agree with much of what you say about Hondas but the Ridgeline is NOT a truck body on a CRV frame. Don't know why you say that. The Ridgeline is derived from the Pilot but is a reinforced unibody. It is not body on frame like traditional half tons - but it is also not just a Pilot with a different body.

Too many people who criticize the Ridgeline compare it to traditional half tons. Honda is not trying to compete with a F150 or Silverado. The Ridgeline is quicker than a F150 with the 5.4. The Ridgeline also handles very well and has a very good AWD system.

Honda clearly did their own thing with the Ridgeline - like they typically do.
I know because I have one.

 

[bharpensx]

I want to thank 99% of everyone for their input on this topic, which seems to be very popular and interesting. I scrolled through all the comments again, disregarding 1%, and again find the NSX Ownership group to be a fantastic group (one of the reasons not mentioned as a con to the GT-R is that NSXCA does not come with it).

There are a few things that came to mind when I looked at everything and a couple quotes, then I realized how many replies there were and couldn't quote everything, and this is still an open topic.

First and foremost, I have been an NSX owner and NSXCA member for about 10 years...and the one thing that I have always felt sets us aside is our appreciation of other autos rather than some "better than you" jealousy (and also our willingness to share our car and experiences with any car owner from a Geo Metro to a Ferrari.) We can appreciate the values of all cars in their own respect, and each other also.

A few ideas have hit my mind overall. First, is that this is a significant introduction of ANOTHER great sports can from Japan. The NSX was a breakthrough, perhaps the Datsun mentioned was also, I have no reason to doubt it but was too young to know that.

Styling. Now it is my opinion that everyone has their own taste in styling. My opinion is the NSX is the most beautiful affordable car I have ever seen. I look at my NSX and it is still a stunning looker. It is not an unusual design for high end sports cars though. Mostly I have people ask me if it is a Ferrari. But there is no doubt that there is a great beauty to it.

Does the GT-R have the same beauty? Is your wife prettier than mine? Or your child? The GT-R doesn't have the standard supercar look to it. To me it looks a lot like a 350Z on steroids. But the question is, is that a bad look? I like the 350Zs. It reminds me very much of the Audi R8, and it looks a lot like the TTs. I don't think a completely unique look is a real drawing point in and of itself, the Pontiac Aztek had that. But the GT-R has a certain beauty and so does the NSX.

So, we have a muscular looking Japanese supercar versus an exotic looking Japanese supercar. To each his own taste.

Performance. Obviously the GT-R dwarfs any NSX performance and handling in its OEM condition. It has been 17 years since the NSX introduction. I mean, this is expected. My thought is that it might be to 2008 what the NSX was in 1990.

There was a really good question posed, "without the numbers would you even consider it?" I can be honest with that and say that the answer is no. But I would extend that. Without the technological features would I ever consider it? The answer is no. But the same is true for the NSX. Without performance (as seperate from numbers) I am not sure we would ever considered it. I think that is always part of our decisions. I thought the Pontiac Solstice was a great looking car. But it was not a performance car. If it had the specs of a GT-R I would be driving one right now.

One other comment was (paraphrased) "the NSX does everything so well." My reply would be, yes it does, doesn't it? Isn't it a delight to drive? It is an amazing vehicle. But I am not so sure the GT-R is not going to do the same thing but from the reviews I suspect it will; and be as good a daily driver as the great car we all enjoy now.

There are two other matters of conjecture I will point out. I am not anti Honda. I am not anti Acura. However, a new sports car like the NSX has been long coming. I like the Honda and Acura brands. I believe they have been putting out quality cars forever. Yet they have not introduced a really great sports car in a long time (1990?) although the S2000 is really cool. It is possible that they have something up their sleeve that will dwarf the GT-R. My favorite concept car remains the DN-X. But finances come into it also. There is so much speculation as to what will come to replace the NSX (if it ever comes) will be $150,000. That will be twice the price of a GT-R.

Could it be worth it? Yes. Could I afford it? No.

I think that something overlooked here is that the GT-R is an incredible value. We don't like using words like value when it comes to NSX world, but it is true. It doesn't sound like a plastic infused interior car with a lot of HP. It sounds like it is exactly what it claims to be. Was it built with the Porsche 011 Turbo spex in mind? Sure. But how is that bad? The Porsche 911 Turbo spex are great. It is a beautiful car.

So, Nissan tries to build a car superior in all respects to the 911 Turbo for a lot less money?? How can we possibly view that as bad?

So, those are my thoughts after reading this very generous thread that I started. I thank you all for your comments.

BHarpe.

 

[s14_tat]

very nicely put.

 

[remotemonkey]

I find it interesting that when the F-car owners justification of superiority is based on "emotion" we would roll our eyes. Now when the NSX owners use the same "emotion" argument over the GTR, it now becomes acceptable.

Also in the NYC the ratio of infiniti M cars to the acura RL is at least 50:1 and this is not a gross exaggeration. I would see a RL maybe once a month but I would see 10 M's a day and these are not the same 10 M's either. I travel inter borough at a lot for work.

thank you, i was thinking that while reading this whole thread. The purpose of the GT-R in 2008 is the same purpose of the nsx in 1991. Have you all become disillusioned by the fact that you think its not "pretty". i never thought i would see the day that nsx owners would be so ignorant about cars.

 

[stuntman]

thank you, i was thinking that while reading this whole thread. The purpose of the GT-R in 2008 is the same purpose of the nsx in 1991. Have you all become disillusioned by the fact that you think its not "pretty". i never thought i would see the day that nsx owners would be so ignorant about cars.

What do you expect? Most people are fan boi's about what they have installed/owned and criticize products or cars that they have never even tried. -that's life, you'll always hear "my car is the greatest thing since sliced bread"

 

[bharpensx]

I went to the Nissan dealership today and got the NSX and my Infiniti G35x appraised as trade ins. I thought the value for the NSX as a trade in to be very good. However, they clearly stated that they wanted $20,000 over sticker = $95,000 for the GTR. That is outside what I am willing to do. I told them that and that was fine with them. So I remain with an NSX and an Infiniti G35x...not a hybrid of the two cars. I am going to think about it again next year and when I can actually get to drive a GTR before buying it.

Thanks for all your input. I stand by what I have said in previous post.

Cheers,

BHarpe.

 

[NSXFRIEND]

I went to the Nissan dealership today and got the NSX and my Infiniti G35x appraised as trade ins. I thought the value for the NSX as a trade in to be very good. However, they clearly stated that they wanted $20,000 over sticker = $95,000 for the GTR. That is outside what I am willing to do. I told them that and that was fine with them. So I remain with an NSX and an Infiniti G35x...not a hybrid of the two cars. I am going to think about it again next year and when I can actually get to drive a GTR before buying it.

Thanks for all your input. I stand by what I have said in previous post.

Cheers,

BHarpe.

I think you made a wise decision, your nsx is that special. BTW you will get bored from a fast car that does not scream and howl, your not missing out.

 

[BD]

I drove the R35 couple of weeks ago. I'm not supposed to talk about it because the person who had it is not supposed to let "none" involvers drive the car. So I'm not going to disclose the detail of the car and who had it.

Even though it was refreshing and cool, I much prefered the CTSC NSX I have driven in the past (NSX1/Steve, and NSXSUPRA/Jason). I'm not the type of guy who cares about that extra .5 of a second zero to sixty. Both cars are unique, and both have its virtue. For one thing, NSX don't have a back seat and a large trunk. The driving experience was actually, similar to the R34 I drove in the past.

The car is big, very big. I couldn't wonder if Nissan could have made the car smaller and shed some weight off, but it was not the end of the world. Sitting in the car looking outward, I felt like I'm in a MB S class.

Obviously I'm a little bias towards the NSX, but the honest truth is, I don't dig the paddle shifter, and I don't like the sitting position. It felt more like a sedan than a proper sports car, which reminded me of my bro's 2001 M5.

Interior wise, it was much nicer than G35, but TL had a better interior, both in Material and the look.

Regardless, it was a fun experience, even though I didn't push the car over 4500/5000RPM, I can tell Nissan did a great job making the car feel easy to drive, and then engine... felt great. Engine felt a lot more powerful than the NSX, and of course, torquier. For the price, there is nothing out there like it. It may not have the top speed of a C6Zo6, but it felt much more stable/confident during high speed turning, and the suspension felt more confident. The car I drove had after market suspension (I think), while not as stiff as my Type R suspension, it was very similar to my S2kCR. Perhaps the weight of the car did some thing to the way it felt.

Would I own one, yes, but not over the NSX. If I own a GTR, it will be both of them at same time.

The experience is a must for those who is arguing the front engine NSX replacement. If Honda get the Front engine car lighter with similar balance... and of course lower, it will be just as big of a monster as the R35. If Honda can make the car around 3200lbs with the rumor HP rating of 550, it will definitely be a monster. If they can get 600hp out of it, I have no double it will be in the same league as the next ZR1 in terms of pure speed.