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Group buy for custom leather seats
- Thread starter DonDavis
- Start date
How many are in the GB so far? I might have a lil extra cash to do it also.
I called NW autoleather today, the gentleman name Steven is very helpful. I was also told that the NSXprime GB is about 10 by now... so few more will do the 10+ discount.
come on NSXers... I think this is the best deal when it comes to replacing your old leather.
come on NSXers... I think this is the best deal when it comes to replacing your old leather.
Has anyone done the plain black/black combo that can post some pics of the bolster & seat belt area? If I get a 'happy feel' on the leather/stitching/fitment quality vs. OEM and we get some more folks in on the deal then I am in. It sounds like a lot of people are in this same situation.
If you'll PM me (Mark), I'll make this post a listing so we don't get thread clogging with "I'm in's" OR "already ordered".
So far it looks like the list of 'probably but have not yet' people are:
1. Me
2. 96blknsx
3. DonDavis
4. Netviper
5. Sjs
6. DocL
7. Valenzul
8. Juice
9. Mynsxjoy
10. Mike Blankenship
11. KGP
Other's? Need your name removed or moved?
UPDATE:
If you sent me a message that you ALREADY ordered, then I left your name off the list to avoid double counting. I'll start another list below of "already ordered" folks that count towards the GB as well? I have no names for this list yet, but based on previous posts I would estimate it at 8ish people?
1-8 (estimated & unknown)
9. Pbassjo
Estimated Total: 20
If you'll PM me (Mark), I'll make this post a listing so we don't get thread clogging with "I'm in's" OR "already ordered".
So far it looks like the list of 'probably but have not yet' people are:
1. Me
2. 96blknsx
3. DonDavis
4. Netviper
5. Sjs
6. DocL
7. Valenzul
8. Juice
9. Mynsxjoy
10. Mike Blankenship
11. KGP
Other's? Need your name removed or moved?
UPDATE:
If you sent me a message that you ALREADY ordered, then I left your name off the list to avoid double counting. I'll start another list below of "already ordered" folks that count towards the GB as well? I have no names for this list yet, but based on previous posts I would estimate it at 8ish people?
1-8 (estimated & unknown)
9. Pbassjo
Estimated Total: 20
Last edited:
I sent a e-mail to Kim placing a order a couple of days ago and am waiting for a response for a final amount. She did mention the group buy in her initial e-mail with me.
I guess that would make me part of the buy.
I tried to PM you but it wouldn't send.
I guess that would make me part of the buy.
I tried to PM you but it wouldn't send.
Last edited:
Sorry guys can't be in on the GB as of now, I'll let you know if something changes. Damnit!! 
I'm in
Just finalized my custom selection. so count me in.
Just finalized my custom selection. so count me in.
I must say that if I had been you I would have sent them back before paying someone to "rework" them, not to mention the hassle and delays that entails. A tough DIY is one thing, but they should be cut and sewn correctly. So, I've moved from probably yes to probably no because I don't need another PIA and source of aggravation.
Who had to have them "re-worked"?
Yes, I can understand your viewpoint there. I felt the same way at the time. But even if I could have gotten them to cough up for the return shipping, I'd be back to having no other source for the covers. These are cheaper by a factor of 3, and they are really high quality (other than the silly mistakes on the attachment flaps). I saw how beautiful they were, and really wanted them. Plus I had already pulled the old covers off. The quickest solution was to get them fixed locally vs. shipping them off to Canada, and they did locate a shop in my choice of cities and they paid to get them fixed.
It shouldn't have happened, if they had bothered to do a bit of quality assurance (inspection) after they made them, it would have been perfect. In retrospect, given the low cost and gorgeous results, it was worth it even with the added PIA in my opinion.
I was painfully honest with them about this, I hope they took it to heart and build the covers for the NSX GB correctly. It'll cost them if they don't!
So you guys that order them - express your concern, tell them to be sure to check them before shipping them, give 'em hell, whatever! Steve said they do work from a set of OEM covers, it should be straightforward.
Jeff
It shouldn't have happened, if they had bothered to do a bit of quality assurance (inspection) after they made them, it would have been perfect. In retrospect, given the low cost and gorgeous results, it was worth it even with the added PIA in my opinion.
I was painfully honest with them about this, I hope they took it to heart and build the covers for the NSX GB correctly. It'll cost them if they don't!
So you guys that order them - express your concern, tell them to be sure to check them before shipping them, give 'em hell, whatever! Steve said they do work from a set of OEM covers, it should be straightforward.
Jeff
sjs said:
I believe he said that Northwest paid for the incorrect j-hooks to be fixed, but had to deal with sending them to the shop to be redone. Maybe they can let everyone know if they fixed the problem with the end product.
Is NW Autoleather aware that the "reworking" incident is being covered here? It would help them greatly to make a declaration in this thread about the future expectations of their product. If they can give a guarantee of quality, fit and finish (as should be expected) it would do well to increase buyers confidence and increase the likelihood that larger number of us Xers would be willing to purchase the covers from them.
I for one am one of those people. I'm on the edge with this one, and fear the PIA factor. More than once something seemingly small has turned into a HUGE ordeal because of product issues, costing me time and money.
I would like to hear a statement.
I for one am one of those people. I'm on the edge with this one, and fear the PIA factor. More than once something seemingly small has turned into a HUGE ordeal because of product issues, costing me time and money.
I would like to hear a statement.
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Juice, I just shot Kim a note at NW and quoted your post. I recommended that she email or post something to reassure the prospective buyers (me included) that the design/assembly glitches have been worked out and to let us know to what degree the leather is "plug and play" so that everyone knows what needs to be done. I feel 100% sure they won't make the J-hook error again.
White94, I'm in for this. Like Jeff A. said, it's by far the cheapest route, the product is high quality, you can DIY, and get new seats exactly the way you want them, right down to stitching, perforation, embroidery, whatever.
Don
White94, I'm in for this. Like Jeff A. said, it's by far the cheapest route, the product is high quality, you can DIY, and get new seats exactly the way you want them, right down to stitching, perforation, embroidery, whatever.
Don
It's not like Northwest is the only option. Now we also have leatherseats.com: http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=28801.
I'd like to hear Steve promise to personally inspect them before shipping them. All attachment mechanisms on all 4 sides of each piece need to be compared to the OEM covers.
Steve seemed honest and trustworthy, and if he agrees to do that, I trust that he would. It will cost him less in the long run to do it right the first time.
Not to pour gasoline on the fire or anything, but there actually was more wrong than just a few J-Hooks sewn upside down. All 4 back cushion and bottom cushion covers had the J-Hooks on one end sewn on upside down. The connection flap on the inside of the pleats had J-Hooks but needed a flat plastic piece - 4 places total (this one I could have corrected myself with a pair of tinsnips). And the attachment flap on the bottom of the front seat cushion was over an inch short and did not contain the flat plastic piece it was supposed to (2 places). I sent Steve pictures of the problems - some of those enclosed below.
This is why I'm making such a presentation of this here. I thought you guys really needed the honest truth. It was sooo close, but they could not be attached as delivered. The covers are so beautiful, and they did pay to get it done right with no questions asked, and it could have been perfect if they had just done it right the first time...
Of course, what's to guarantee that the next place you go to won't also build them less than perfectly? Tough call.
Jeff
Steve seemed honest and trustworthy, and if he agrees to do that, I trust that he would. It will cost him less in the long run to do it right the first time.
Not to pour gasoline on the fire or anything, but there actually was more wrong than just a few J-Hooks sewn upside down. All 4 back cushion and bottom cushion covers had the J-Hooks on one end sewn on upside down. The connection flap on the inside of the pleats had J-Hooks but needed a flat plastic piece - 4 places total (this one I could have corrected myself with a pair of tinsnips). And the attachment flap on the bottom of the front seat cushion was over an inch short and did not contain the flat plastic piece it was supposed to (2 places). I sent Steve pictures of the problems - some of those enclosed below.
This is why I'm making such a presentation of this here. I thought you guys really needed the honest truth. It was sooo close, but they could not be attached as delivered. The covers are so beautiful, and they did pay to get it done right with no questions asked, and it could have been perfect if they had just done it right the first time...
Of course, what's to guarantee that the next place you go to won't also build them less than perfectly? Tough call.
Jeff
Attachments
Thanks, Jeff. If I was assured they would be done correctly, you could count me in on the buy. But I think I'd rather pay a bit more (after the group buy), waiting to see how the next batch turns out.
Hmm.. all these errors are starting to make me wonder if they will be correct or not...
Tony Priester
I went back to my local upholstery shop that performed the work on my center cushions and he said that the J hooks and the plastic pleats didn't match my factory pieces. He just switched them around and restiched them so that my Northwest Leather kit had the factory plastic pieces. To him it wasn't a big deal and that's why he never mentioned that he had to do it. Till this date I love my new seats.
I went back to my local upholstery shop that performed the work on my center cushions and he said that the J hooks and the plastic pleats didn't match my factory pieces. He just switched them around and restiched them so that my Northwest Leather kit had the factory plastic pieces. To him it wasn't a big deal and that's why he never mentioned that he had to do it. Till this date I love my new seats.
Jeff A said:
Attachments
Look, this should be no big deal from a manufacturing standpoint. Most of the problems listed should be easily corrected as long as attention is paid to setup and procedure. The fact that this company offers so many variables as to what material, stitching, arrangement, and coloring (not to mention embroidery) one may ask for leads me to believe that the mistakes that were made were all after the fact. Think of everything that could have gone wrong!
Here it seems that the seats were torn apart without proper cataloging of how to put them back together again, thus a wonderful product with terrible reinstallation properties. I'm not sure how NW Autoleather can fix this problem without taking apart another seat while paying special attention to the clips and hooks used to fasten the leather down.
Regardless, it is not my business. But seeing the impact that it is having here, I wish it were. If NW Autoleather knows what is best they will address these minor issues and set them straight right quick in order to sway us into plunking down our dough. I still await a response.
Here it seems that the seats were torn apart without proper cataloging of how to put them back together again, thus a wonderful product with terrible reinstallation properties. I'm not sure how NW Autoleather can fix this problem without taking apart another seat while paying special attention to the clips and hooks used to fasten the leather down.
Regardless, it is not my business. But seeing the impact that it is having here, I wish it were. If NW Autoleather knows what is best they will address these minor issues and set them straight right quick in order to sway us into plunking down our dough. I still await a response.
So who has emailed them to make sure the seats will be perfect?
If I don't hear anything, I might not get them. If we know about these issues, the company should guarantee perfection.
If I don't hear anything, I might not get them. If we know about these issues, the company should guarantee perfection.
If someone decides to e-mail them, here is my list of potential issues to add to the pile.
#1 Fitment
this includes the installation, as well as post installation. I want to be able to install it myself. Is it going to stretch and gather in places it shouldn't after a little time?
#2 Leather Quality
I have no idea what the differences are between vendors and NSX OEM. I have had widely varying qualities in different cars in the past. 97 Acura CL had great leather, ditto the 93 Mazda MX6. 2000 4runner is mediocre and BMW 330Ci has crappy leather. Where in the spectrum is this replacement? My OEM is not very worn at at all, so I'd be stupid to replace it with something of inferior quality.
#3 Stitching (especially around the bolsters)
It looks like these covers and the other covers (ChrisK) are done differently. Why is this and which is better?
I've never even spoken to NW, but have no reason not to trust them. That being said, I do want some assurance of quality, execution and durability. from NW. If I didn't care, I would be driving an Aztek!
I think all this could easily be cleared up with a simple post. How hard is it to register? They obviously have web access.
My $.02
#1 Fitment
this includes the installation, as well as post installation. I want to be able to install it myself. Is it going to stretch and gather in places it shouldn't after a little time?
#2 Leather Quality
I have no idea what the differences are between vendors and NSX OEM. I have had widely varying qualities in different cars in the past. 97 Acura CL had great leather, ditto the 93 Mazda MX6. 2000 4runner is mediocre and BMW 330Ci has crappy leather. Where in the spectrum is this replacement? My OEM is not very worn at at all, so I'd be stupid to replace it with something of inferior quality.
#3 Stitching (especially around the bolsters)
It looks like these covers and the other covers (ChrisK) are done differently. Why is this and which is better?
I've never even spoken to NW, but have no reason not to trust them. That being said, I do want some assurance of quality, execution and durability. from NW. If I didn't care, I would be driving an Aztek!
I think all this could easily be cleared up with a simple post. How hard is it to register? They obviously have web access.
My $.02
I emailed Kim at NW this morning, strongly suggesting she check out the postings here to get an idea of what everyone's concerns are. No one wants to spend that kind of money only to have to take it somewhere else to get it right, when it should have been right the first time...
I hope to hear something soon, and perhaps she'll post directly.
Don
I hope to hear something soon, and perhaps she'll post directly.
Don
Attention all NSX owners.
The reason for this posting is to try and clarify details regarding concerns about the NSX leather interiors produced by Northwest Automotive Leather.
My name is Steven and I thought that you should know some information in addition to what Jeff Albertine has expressed. First, he is absolutely correct. We, by accident, sewed six "J" hook plastics inversely and consequently found and contacted an experienced upholsterer in Marietta, GA., so that this could be corrected. As far as the door panels are concerned, due to what looks like will be a large participation of NSX Prime members, we will for the first time offer pre-sewn, (ready-to-install) panels. (Hiya Jeff; we realize that you may feel somewhat unjustly left out because you had to pay for your panels to be sewn. Please call me personally and as President I personally will see that you are, in one way or another, taken care of)
Now, down to the business of things. For those of you who have not called me personally for answers to any concerns that you may have, I urge you to call me toll free if this posting doesn’t answer or satisfy any of your questions.
1. The first quality control system to be implemented is that a single production cell will be responsible for all aspects of quality. Usually, production cells may work on a variety of manufacturer’s models within a given day. However, to ensure that Group Buy participants receive problem-free kits, only one cell will deal with the NSX parts.
2. Fit is determined not just by product design, but most importantly by the installer. No disrespect to all do-it-yourselfers, but not everyone can be a doctor, lawyer, financial planner, dentist, electrician, etc. Therefore, please try and understand that the installation of an interior is, for the most part, an art form. Any one of you could install three individual NSX leather interiors and take a step back and examine your workmanship. What you would quickly discover is that even though the leather covers were produced within the same tolerance of quality, they somehow look slightly different from one another. This is due to the fact that the installer could not exactly reproduce the method of installation used for all of the seats. Most of you will probably get an 8.5/10 rating for the install. However, a professional installer would probably get a 9.5. This is what they do for a living. They are upholstery specialists. The average amount of time required for a DIY install =5-6+ hours. A pro install =4+ hours. The national average hourly rate is $50.
3. Leather Quality 101:
The leather used to produce the NSX Prime Interiors is Monza-H Top Grain leather. This is the same leather which is produced for Mercedes in Europe. Its sister leather is the Montana SC, which is produced for BMW in Europe. Both Items exceed British Automotive Specification Standards. Let’s be clear on one thing; Top Grain Leather is NOT the same as split leather. Top Grain is the first layer sliced of the hide. Split leather is the junk cut from underneath. Top Grain has a beautiful, suede-like underside. Split leather has a crummy, cardboard/particle board-like finish. Top Grain is used to trim the finest automobiles. Split leather, which used to be headrest/arm rest/steering wheel exclusive, is now finding it’s way onto more popular vehicle seats than would be acceptable if the public only knew.
4. Leather Quality Advanced: This leather is full penetrated and drum-dyed, unlike split leather which, (for cost purposes) is usually batch dyed in a greyish color which becomes it’s foundation. Scratch a typical split leather-colored red/yellow/green and this greyish color will surface. However, scratch the top surface of Northwest’s leather, and red/yellow/green would jump out at you from the underside. Our Leather also meets all fogging & Flammability specs.
5. Stitching Quality: All thread used for the first stage sewing process is a CBB 69, manufactured by Coats Bell, which is one of the largest suppliers of thread to the automotive industry. The thread used for the double needle top-stitching is a CBB 138. To reduce costs, the automotive industry trend is to use a CBB 69 or 92 smaller diameter for the top-stitching. We at Northwest believe in giving our customers the best product components despite the industry trend of going in the other direction.
6. Foam Quality: The foam used meets and exceeds automotive specifications. It is a medium density, open cell foam construction which fully complies with international standards. NOTE: Take a blow torch to our foam and you’d be hard-pressed to warm your hands. But, take a lighter to some of the other foams used in competing products and you might want to gather around and pull out your marshmallow sticks!
7. Machine Quality: We employ a fleet of Juki/Adler fully automated, single needle walking foot machines. The double-needle machines are $15,000. Juki postbed machines. Single needle machines are equipped with a sewing guide which increases sewing accuracy.
8. Factory Warranty is the same as special edition programs for Mazda, and Suzuki. Three years or 36,000 miles.
9. Installation Notes: The plastic plugs which everyone will be required to remove when taking off their original covers, will break. It’s inevitable due to the rigidity of the plastic used to make these plugs. If you flip your seat to expost the underside, you will notice the front corners of the seat bottom, Acura had phillips screws anchoring the interior trim. This is what we recommend using to fasten the outer frame components to the seat frame itself. We will sew a medium density polypropylene arrowhead plastic to the covers which will provide a solid anchoring strip. We will do the same for the front end seat area.
A late addition of material selection preferred synthetic suede, same-type of material that you will find in many European and North American show vehicles. NO EXTRA CHARGE. Call for available colors.
In conclusion, please call with ANY questions. We have responded to may inquiries during this past week, and have hopefully satisfied everyone’s concerns. We regret this late posting as it should have been done as soon as the first concern was expressed. We invite you to continue for as long as you have concerns to post on the forum, or email but we can’t emphasize enough how limiting a posting is compared to a live conversation with an authority on leather interiors. Thanks very much for taking the time to read this, and have a nice weeknd.
See the pictures below for 1. A comparison of top grain versus split leather. 2.Acura plastic plug and phillips screw. 3. Factory plastic listing which will be replaced by our arrowhead listing.
The reason for this posting is to try and clarify details regarding concerns about the NSX leather interiors produced by Northwest Automotive Leather.
My name is Steven and I thought that you should know some information in addition to what Jeff Albertine has expressed. First, he is absolutely correct. We, by accident, sewed six "J" hook plastics inversely and consequently found and contacted an experienced upholsterer in Marietta, GA., so that this could be corrected. As far as the door panels are concerned, due to what looks like will be a large participation of NSX Prime members, we will for the first time offer pre-sewn, (ready-to-install) panels. (Hiya Jeff; we realize that you may feel somewhat unjustly left out because you had to pay for your panels to be sewn. Please call me personally and as President I personally will see that you are, in one way or another, taken care of)
Now, down to the business of things. For those of you who have not called me personally for answers to any concerns that you may have, I urge you to call me toll free if this posting doesn’t answer or satisfy any of your questions.
1. The first quality control system to be implemented is that a single production cell will be responsible for all aspects of quality. Usually, production cells may work on a variety of manufacturer’s models within a given day. However, to ensure that Group Buy participants receive problem-free kits, only one cell will deal with the NSX parts.
2. Fit is determined not just by product design, but most importantly by the installer. No disrespect to all do-it-yourselfers, but not everyone can be a doctor, lawyer, financial planner, dentist, electrician, etc. Therefore, please try and understand that the installation of an interior is, for the most part, an art form. Any one of you could install three individual NSX leather interiors and take a step back and examine your workmanship. What you would quickly discover is that even though the leather covers were produced within the same tolerance of quality, they somehow look slightly different from one another. This is due to the fact that the installer could not exactly reproduce the method of installation used for all of the seats. Most of you will probably get an 8.5/10 rating for the install. However, a professional installer would probably get a 9.5. This is what they do for a living. They are upholstery specialists. The average amount of time required for a DIY install =5-6+ hours. A pro install =4+ hours. The national average hourly rate is $50.
3. Leather Quality 101:
The leather used to produce the NSX Prime Interiors is Monza-H Top Grain leather. This is the same leather which is produced for Mercedes in Europe. Its sister leather is the Montana SC, which is produced for BMW in Europe. Both Items exceed British Automotive Specification Standards. Let’s be clear on one thing; Top Grain Leather is NOT the same as split leather. Top Grain is the first layer sliced of the hide. Split leather is the junk cut from underneath. Top Grain has a beautiful, suede-like underside. Split leather has a crummy, cardboard/particle board-like finish. Top Grain is used to trim the finest automobiles. Split leather, which used to be headrest/arm rest/steering wheel exclusive, is now finding it’s way onto more popular vehicle seats than would be acceptable if the public only knew.
4. Leather Quality Advanced: This leather is full penetrated and drum-dyed, unlike split leather which, (for cost purposes) is usually batch dyed in a greyish color which becomes it’s foundation. Scratch a typical split leather-colored red/yellow/green and this greyish color will surface. However, scratch the top surface of Northwest’s leather, and red/yellow/green would jump out at you from the underside. Our Leather also meets all fogging & Flammability specs.
5. Stitching Quality: All thread used for the first stage sewing process is a CBB 69, manufactured by Coats Bell, which is one of the largest suppliers of thread to the automotive industry. The thread used for the double needle top-stitching is a CBB 138. To reduce costs, the automotive industry trend is to use a CBB 69 or 92 smaller diameter for the top-stitching. We at Northwest believe in giving our customers the best product components despite the industry trend of going in the other direction.
6. Foam Quality: The foam used meets and exceeds automotive specifications. It is a medium density, open cell foam construction which fully complies with international standards. NOTE: Take a blow torch to our foam and you’d be hard-pressed to warm your hands. But, take a lighter to some of the other foams used in competing products and you might want to gather around and pull out your marshmallow sticks!
7. Machine Quality: We employ a fleet of Juki/Adler fully automated, single needle walking foot machines. The double-needle machines are $15,000. Juki postbed machines. Single needle machines are equipped with a sewing guide which increases sewing accuracy.
8. Factory Warranty is the same as special edition programs for Mazda, and Suzuki. Three years or 36,000 miles.
9. Installation Notes: The plastic plugs which everyone will be required to remove when taking off their original covers, will break. It’s inevitable due to the rigidity of the plastic used to make these plugs. If you flip your seat to expost the underside, you will notice the front corners of the seat bottom, Acura had phillips screws anchoring the interior trim. This is what we recommend using to fasten the outer frame components to the seat frame itself. We will sew a medium density polypropylene arrowhead plastic to the covers which will provide a solid anchoring strip. We will do the same for the front end seat area.
A late addition of material selection preferred synthetic suede, same-type of material that you will find in many European and North American show vehicles. NO EXTRA CHARGE. Call for available colors.
In conclusion, please call with ANY questions. We have responded to may inquiries during this past week, and have hopefully satisfied everyone’s concerns. We regret this late posting as it should have been done as soon as the first concern was expressed. We invite you to continue for as long as you have concerns to post on the forum, or email but we can’t emphasize enough how limiting a posting is compared to a live conversation with an authority on leather interiors. Thanks very much for taking the time to read this, and have a nice weeknd.
See the pictures below for 1. A comparison of top grain versus split leather. 2.Acura plastic plug and phillips screw. 3. Factory plastic listing which will be replaced by our arrowhead listing.
Sorry! Due to the size of our .jpg files, we cannot sem to post them. Please email Kim to see them and more pics. OR we will post them on the website on Monday.
Cheers
Cheers
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