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hey everyone
- Thread starter 19dcavscout
- Start date
jagtiger said:"While I realize his views are unpopular, it is a mistake to dismiss cmhs75's opinion.
Indeed, it is the ease by which we dismiss such opinions that has led to some of the problems created by our long occupation of Iraq."
What I was saying is that CMHS75 response to 19DCavscout's thread tittled "HEY EVERYONE" is totally OFF TOPIC! If you guys wanted to ARGUE about Iraq or US policies in the Mid East then it's only appropriate that you start your OWN topic in the forums!!!!People just don't get it!!!
I was protesting against the incurgment that 19DCavscoutwas getting and I think I have the right to do that, the drifting towords the Iraq attack was invitable, that's why I hate it when threads like this get started.
19DCavscout I hope you a safe return to your country but understand this, the majority of Islamic world are against the Iraq attack, so don't expect me or anyother of my kind to applaude what you're doing.
- Joined
- 29 April 2004
- Messages
- 1,567
What are we supposed to say???
"ehh, hope you die, cuz we don't agree with the war"
OF COURSE WE HOPE FOR A SAFE RETURN OF EVERYONE OF OUR TROOPS. They are all people like you. Whether or not we (americans) agree with Bush and the war, we all wish each troop safety and to return soon.
I'm not a hugely political person, so I'm not going to say much cuz I do not want to make ignorant comments, I'm partially for the war, and partially against it. It sucks alot that people have to die. Unfortunately it's just how it goes.
When we say "give them hell" we're obviously referring to the very same people who want to kill you too... the terrorists. Whether or not you're accepting of it the troops are fighting for you and dying for you too. It is not their decision to come over here, it's the congress and president. You wanna be mad at someone, be mad at them,
please don't take over this thread about a soldier's safe return to hate on Bush.
peace.
"ehh, hope you die, cuz we don't agree with the war"
OF COURSE WE HOPE FOR A SAFE RETURN OF EVERYONE OF OUR TROOPS. They are all people like you. Whether or not we (americans) agree with Bush and the war, we all wish each troop safety and to return soon.
I'm not a hugely political person, so I'm not going to say much cuz I do not want to make ignorant comments, I'm partially for the war, and partially against it. It sucks alot that people have to die. Unfortunately it's just how it goes.
When we say "give them hell" we're obviously referring to the very same people who want to kill you too... the terrorists. Whether or not you're accepting of it the troops are fighting for you and dying for you too. It is not their decision to come over here, it's the congress and president. You wanna be mad at someone, be mad at them,
please don't take over this thread about a soldier's safe return to hate on Bush.
peace.
- Joined
- 30 December 2004
- Messages
- 87
Hello
Brahtw8 I would niether call you a communist nor unpatriotic, I hope that nothing I have written would indicate such. I respect many opinions and I am open that my opinions can be wrong. That goes for CHMS75 as well. So if anything I have written is offensive I offer an apology.
I agree with you CHMS75 when you say that I can be a sheep as well. That is what I meant when I said nothing I can write, possible due to my own failings, will convey my beliefs because what each of us hold dear is quite different.
However, I also beleive that some of your "venting" was unjust towards 19Dcavscout, as he was merely saying hello.
Oh, If it really does matter to you I will share with you that I wrote my own name in and voted for myself. :smile:
Brahtw8 I would niether call you a communist nor unpatriotic, I hope that nothing I have written would indicate such. I respect many opinions and I am open that my opinions can be wrong. That goes for CHMS75 as well. So if anything I have written is offensive I offer an apology.
I agree with you CHMS75 when you say that I can be a sheep as well. That is what I meant when I said nothing I can write, possible due to my own failings, will convey my beliefs because what each of us hold dear is quite different.
However, I also beleive that some of your "venting" was unjust towards 19Dcavscout, as he was merely saying hello.
Oh, If it really does matter to you I will share with you that I wrote my own name in and voted for myself. :smile:
Semper Volans my brother. I was in the 1/158th CAV unit and recently got out of the reserves. I hope you come back safe.
19dcavscout said:
I was not directing my ire at anyone in particular, just at a general attitude I have experienced in society. I am also reacting to the death of my friend's brother and the feeling of helplessness that it has created in me.
I would also encourage cmhs75 to apply his critical thinking to the Saudi government, as I strongly disagree with his apparent assessment of that government as a positive example in the arab world. I think the Saudis have much blood on their hands for supporting violent fundamentalists in the name of religion. There is plenty of blame to go around and we should all be careful that we do not allow our passion to blind our reason or to foster feelings of self-righteousness.
I deeply respect our troops. The courage they have shown is worthy of daily recognition. It is important to separate the policy of the government from those who are responsible for carrying it out. Indeed, if our government lived up to the same ideals and had the same courage as our soldiers, we would all be much better off.
Those of us oppose the war do not want to see such fine people die in vain. I hope very much that we can find a way to salvage some hope in what appears to be a hopeless situation.
Our government has no plan for how to leave Iraq. This should not be acceptable to anyone. We as a society need to move this conversation to center stage, not run from it.
I would also encourage cmhs75 to apply his critical thinking to the Saudi government, as I strongly disagree with his apparent assessment of that government as a positive example in the arab world. I think the Saudis have much blood on their hands for supporting violent fundamentalists in the name of religion. There is plenty of blame to go around and we should all be careful that we do not allow our passion to blind our reason or to foster feelings of self-righteousness.
I deeply respect our troops. The courage they have shown is worthy of daily recognition. It is important to separate the policy of the government from those who are responsible for carrying it out. Indeed, if our government lived up to the same ideals and had the same courage as our soldiers, we would all be much better off.
Those of us oppose the war do not want to see such fine people die in vain. I hope very much that we can find a way to salvage some hope in what appears to be a hopeless situation.
Our government has no plan for how to leave Iraq. This should not be acceptable to anyone. We as a society need to move this conversation to center stage, not run from it.
Actually Bush and Rummy want to get us the heck out of Iraq as soon as possible, given how unpopular this war has become.brahtw8 said:
They just can't do it while there is no stable government in Iraq, with so many factions that are vying for control.
I personally only care that our troops come home safely. The least I can do is support our troops and honor those who lost their lives in service to our country, whether you think that original mission was right or wrong.
What makes me highly mad is reading cmhs75 post that Americans are killing innocent people.
If they think that we intentionally kill innocent people, then I say to hell with all ragheads.
Yes I am politically sensitive to our Arabian / middle-eastern friends, and appreciate that many Muslims are good, honest, and intelligent people.
But when I read anti-American rhetoric lies like what was posted in this thread, I get outraged and say f**k it all, I don't care what the ragheads do to each other.
Politically incorrect, I admit, but I'm sick of the BS attitude these idiots have.
Maybe they were better under Saddam, when thousands got killed in prisons, tortured, and we can just turn a blind eye to injustice.
Anyway, scout, stay safe, kill every bad guy you see that is trying to do harm to you or your forces, and come back home safe soon!!
I will gladly meet you and let you check out / ride / test drive my NSX whenever you come home safe.
God bless our troops. There aren't enough unselfish people like you.
Re: let's all step back!
I value all cultures and am very sad to see the hatred against the US that is so apparent.
Hope you're having a great Memorial day yourself.
Thanks Osiris for your cool headed post. Thank you for being an intelligent person who doesn't spout non-sense like cmsh75.Osiris_x11 said:hmmm... We're all friends here! We also love NSX'es, let's not deviate from that. The DarkSide of the Prancin' Horse & Rally-bred Econo-boxes & Nuovo-Corvettes want to lead us astray. Don't give IN!!!
cmhs75, please delete or edit your post; send 19dcavscout or NsXMas a pm or email if you choose. As someone coming from a similar background as you, I saw nothing inappropriate w/ the original thread.
Banshee Wail, NsXMas, Vizal, and others, please edit all your posts once the former post has been removed or edited.
There is no need to argue & foment dissent. NSXPrime.com Administration would not appreciate such from anyone nor will it be tolerated.
Everyone, have a safe memorial day!
I value all cultures and am very sad to see the hatred against the US that is so apparent.
Hope you're having a great Memorial day yourself.
I agree with you 100%. I think that is such an important point, especially on Memorial Day like today.rickysals said:
Who do you think we're referring to when we say "give 'em hell"??cmhs75 said:
Are you actually that dull?
We are referring to the terrorists who are not only killing our troops, but also the innocent Iraqi people as well.
Do you really need that pointed out? Or does your built in bias against America force you to interpret it that way?
Unbelievable. Just incredible.
It's more offensive for you to read "give 'em hell" than to see terrorists beheading innocent people, or even foreign aid workers who are trying to help the Iraqi people??? Or that it's okay for terrorists to blow cars killing dozens of innocent Iraqi school kids???
Mind boggling.
When I read chit like what you post, it helps to create strong anti-arab sentiment in the back of my mind. Fortunately I'm intelligent enough to know that not all arabs are as thick headed as you. I try to keep my sentiments in check. Your posts really caused me to explode with rage.
NsXMas said:
That is my point. To acknowledge the problem is not a plan. This was always going to be the result of the removal of Saddam. We didn't know what to do about it then, and we don't know what to do about it now.
We have surrounded Baghdad, and maybe that will stop the escalating violence, but if not it certainly sends a powerful message to the arab world and it may become a source of powerful anti-american rhetoric if Baghdad remains encircled by the military.
The military is not meant to occupy a country and police a civilian population. We would never accept that in America. We cannot be surprised when some react violently to our presence, to say nothing of the Iraqis who lose friends and loved ones directly or indirectly as a result of the conflict and choose to blame the US, rightly or wrongly.
This does not excuse the responsibility of those who perpetrate terrorist actions, and the self-defeating nature of terrorist acts. Their crimes may be an expression of helplessness, but they are crimes against all humanity and we must never fail to condemn such actions regardless of the name or cause they originate from..
The reality is that whenever we leave Iraq it will probably continue to degrade into civil war with the net result being that Iraq will become a fundamentalist muslim state allied with Iran. I hope very much they can make a coallition government work between the various Iraqi interests, but it doesn't seem that way.
In between is an occupation that takes 500,000 troops to sustain even the minimal 10:1 troop:insurgent ratio, assuming govts estimates of 'active' AQ/resistance in Iraq are accurate, not the 150,000 we currently deploy. If you also count the additional 200,000 'part-time' support for AQ/resistance the govt. also believes exist, even 500,000 is not enough.
If we are not prepared to put the necessary amount of troops in Iraq, why do we ask our brave men and women to expose themselves to the additional risk that is created by insufficient numbers?
Am I wrong? Is there anyone who thinks we have enough or more than enough troops in Iraq in terms of the sufficiency of our military strength?
I am certainly open to a contrary view, as I would like to continue to educate myself on the topic.
Here is the latest madness.
http://www.boston.com/dailynews/150/world/Suicide_bombing_south_of_Baghd:.shtml
I don't disagree with you one bit. I think Rumsfield blew the operation and should be made to pay for it with a resignation. I don't see that happening soon.brahtw8 said:
With that said I want our troops home safe and sound soon!!! I also want to see us leave Iraq with a stable government that is self-sufficient. Unfortunately right now they don't seem capable of that right now.
NsXMas said:
I agree.
It would take nothing short of a massive change in US policy and a new willingness to work with the UN and the international community, including sharing Iraq's oil and control thereto.
The administration does not admit mistakes. I fear we will be leaving the UN soon, and then we will have no international organization. I don't think this bodes well for our ability to compete with China and the rest of the world over the longer term. We are throwing our superiority away, to the extent it even remains.
In the future we will look back on what we have squandered. We throw it all away. We have greatness in us, but our nationalism has overcome it. It is the natural reaction of a people when they are attacked. As long as we remain at war it will play a powerful role in our policy and national conscience, or lack thereof. I fear our domestic and foreign policy are being manipulated toward that end, which is terrible to comprehend.
Very well stated. Happy Memorial Day.brahtw8 said:
Where The World Terrorist News Channels (Al-jeezera, Al-Arabia, and their sibling state-sponsored channels) are treated as 'news' versus the radical op/ed terrorist sponsored blather it truly represents. With few exceptions, the people of these nations are the most oppressed/controlled by their own governments on the planet. Why do you not protest as strongly against on this issue?cmhs75 said:
To consider local Middle East media reports as objective is the equivalent of me declaring my ability to fly under my own power. In America, the media gets brownie points for opposing the government. We have countless outlets that represent for and against govt. policy… however the opposing views are often the loudest. If Middle East media performed the same role, in many of the countires there would not be a media... because they would all be killed by their fun-loving and incredibly tolerant governments. [/sarcasm]
Somehow I doubt you verbally protest with equal vigor the 100,000's of civilians Sadaam executed while in power and now lay in mass graves. I imagine you failed to protest with equal vigor when Arab militia used Mosques as armories. I imagine you failed to protest with equal vigor the way these countries treat women. I imagine you failed to protest with equal vigor the Syrian and Iranian regimes support of insurgent organizations that continue to target Iraqi civilians on a daily basis.
To disagree with the war is one thing, but to ignore which side is truly targeting the civilian population is sheer blindness. Additionally, to say your proximity of <1000km to Iraq makes you more aware of what's going on there than the next person is so humorous... I almost thought you were joking. I mean, I have various family members less than 1000km from Haiti, Cuba, Syria, and Mexico and let me tell you... they are ALL experts in what truly goes on in those countries![/sarcasm] Neither statement has any credibility.
Way to take an innocuous hello from a board member and turn it into a
America is the devil' speech.
Back to the intended purpose of the thread, hey Scout… good to see you’re doing alright. Godspeed.
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Scout, GIVE EM HELL!!!!!!
cmhs75, Shut the fuck up!!!! Who the hell are you to say that what we are doing is wrong. I have friends who have lost thier lives in Iraq, Afghanistan, and in NYC.
If you want to rant and rave, then go bitch at the cowards that attacked the World Trade Center. Had that not occured, neither would this war.
I have many friends who are Arab and I hold them very dear, this is not a race issue. The issue is that many Americans have been killed on our land as well as abroad by these Godless pices of shit terrorists. Its not gonna fly anymore! If you are a terrorist or associated with themin any way, you are a target and I back my country in its decision to fight.
So yeah, Rock on Scout, be safe, come home knowing that you are wellcome in my home anyday brother!!!
cmhs75, Shut the fuck up!!!! Who the hell are you to say that what we are doing is wrong. I have friends who have lost thier lives in Iraq, Afghanistan, and in NYC.
If you want to rant and rave, then go bitch at the cowards that attacked the World Trade Center. Had that not occured, neither would this war.
I have many friends who are Arab and I hold them very dear, this is not a race issue. The issue is that many Americans have been killed on our land as well as abroad by these Godless pices of shit terrorists. Its not gonna fly anymore! If you are a terrorist or associated with themin any way, you are a target and I back my country in its decision to fight.
So yeah, Rock on Scout, be safe, come home knowing that you are wellcome in my home anyday brother!!!
In your early post you stated that the USA was trying to take over Iraq. Are you stupid???? If the USA wanted to take Iraq, it would have taken four minutes, not four years. I have friends there right now that come home with pictures of the people hugging them glad that they can now walk the streets without fear of the regime. Untill YOU grab a gun and put your ass on the line for something, again SHUT THE FUCK UP!!!
this crap is why i rarely post here anymore.
Banshee Wail said:
LOL
yeah yeah, I guess my venting really was a little unfair towords 19Dcavscout. and I'm sorry for that, but I still stand firm in my beliee in that the US is causing more trouble than it's solving. and I really believe 19Dcavscout needs to get out of Iraq.
and if I were an american, I would have voted for you because im 100% sure you would have done a better job than the bush administration.
now cheer up :biggrin:
brahtw8 said:
I think you misunderstud me. I, in no way see the saudi government as a positive example, but i don't see it as a negative one iether, it's trying to do it's best and you can't compare a great nation like the US to one that is baerly stable like Saudia. but then again, at these times, I do see the US government as a negative example and it seems that I'm not the only one in the world, (exept americans apparantly form this thread)
and I know it might be very hard fro you to belive, but take it from me, the saudi government is really fare away from supporting any terrorist acts, if anything, I could only acuse it of the opposite.
NsXMas said:
Look nsxMas,
I don't want to ansower all your posts becuase your first one made it absulotely clear what type of person you are.
here's my advice, (and I'm saying it to my self as well right now judging by the fact that this thread is on it's way to being the longest thread on NSXprime) "when you're mad, before you post anything, cool down first for about 30 minutes, and when you're absoutly calm, then state your ideas, you will have a bigger impact instead of your -f**k de pro- posts"
so regarding this post (and I'm only going to reply to this one just):
1- americans are killing inocent people right now
2- I never ever did say that you kill then intentoinally, but I do believe the US actions are cuasing thier death, so you are doing in unintentionally and i protest against that
3-you're furios about things I didn't say but you worngly understod I said, then how pist off do you think I am after reading this "to hell with all ragtops" (by the way I'm wearing a ragtop right now) you're punishing me for punishing me for doing something i didn't do by dooing the same thing?
now grow up
Sig said:
good post, I really like your reasoning, very very objective, this is something i can really reply to, unlike other on this thread:
first of, I agree al-jazeera and it'slikes are a joke at best, that's why I never watch them, but to me al-jazeera is an ameture propagansdist channel which can easly be faulted, now, if you want a porfetional propagandest channel that really know how to tell a lie, then go to CNN, when they're not giving new about actressesm they do talk about things we know here that they are rubish, I personally like the BBS, very obejective and proffetional, tune in on it. the media in the middle east is really a joke, so no one cares about it inlcuding me. and you do have a fre media but do you listen to it's crticisum towords the US ?
and actually, I did protest against saddam regime and all the worng doings of the politions here. and this might be a huge shock to you, but when the war against eraq started, I was a pro US guy, I was saying go america, and everyone around me said that no the US is not here to do good, but I went against them and defended the US and i was positive the us was there to free Iraq, but now about 2 years later on, the truth surfaced, if america was there to free the peoplem it would have been out ofthere long ago, there are other ways to deal with the terroists threats over there and they demaned a lot less blood shed, but that way the us will not get what it originally came for so, needless to say I was so wrong and now I will never ever trust the US ever agina, the US is a big bully flexing it's musels at the world. and you speek of oppresing governments here, how about the us? is the US not an opresing power? well, three of my firends here who were around the is at 911 would beg to differe on that point.
and hwat about the way we treat wemen? are you sure they are oppresed here? as a matter of fact are you sure any of us feel more oppresed here than we would be in the US? there is an easy way to find out, regardiong the wemen, there are more wemen convertes to islam than men and saudia is an islamic country, so why would they convert to a riligion that oppreses them? or are you mistaken, and if we are as oppresed as everyone seems to claim, then why arnt there millions of imagrants form saudi arabia escaping the country? or is it maibe that someone who actually lives in saudi arabia has a better idea on wiether he is oppressed or not than someone living over 100,000 km away?
and final point, I was draged into this "america is the devil" speach, so reep what you sew
one of you guys stated that 911 is the reason for the iraq attack
well, I believe Afghanistan terrorists were behind the 911 attack, and the terrorists were no wear near iraq at that time , so pelease explain to me what does 911 have to do with the iraq attack?
well, I believe Afghanistan terrorists were behind the 911 attack, and the terrorists were no wear near iraq at that time , so pelease explain to me what does 911 have to do with the iraq attack?
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