liftshard said:
Above is from the original thread, response#1.
August Gas Prices: $3.12 gal
Today's Gas Prices: under $2.00
BOTH prices above are NJ AT THE PUMP prices. I am stating facts, not opinion.
Regards,
LarryB
-
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Honda should cancel production of any upcoming "supercar"
- Thread starter liftshard
- Start date
Above is from the original thread, response#1.
August Gas Prices: $3.12 gal
Today's Gas Prices: under $2.00
BOTH prices above are NJ AT THE PUMP prices. I am stating facts, not opinion.
Regards,
LarryB
Larry
The number of Prius and Civic hybrids on Carbon Beach (aka "billionaire beach") is approaching 30%. They are PROUDLY parked in front.
These are minimum of $12M houses. Yes, there are also 4 Carerra GT's in the same stretch, but the number of hybrids are stunning.
The Prius is now a de facto show car. I was at a snooty party for July 4th. Over HALF of the cars were Prius. Not ONE --- NOT A SINGLE SUV-- was in sight. Burning unecessary gas is a big no no nowadays...especially with the Hollywood types and the very rich.
I beat them all by *walking* to the party---everybody was very impressed.
Honda needs a super car to run on alternative fuels and they will sell like wild.
Drew
/I personally subscribe that there IS a little bit of Osama in every gallon of gasoline. We are all financing the terrorists.... If we stop buying oil: the Middle East will return to their [now] worthless pile of sand and we can get on with life.
The number of Prius and Civic hybrids on Carbon Beach (aka "billionaire beach") is approaching 30%. They are PROUDLY parked in front.
These are minimum of $12M houses. Yes, there are also 4 Carerra GT's in the same stretch, but the number of hybrids are stunning.
The Prius is now a de facto show car. I was at a snooty party for July 4th. Over HALF of the cars were Prius. Not ONE --- NOT A SINGLE SUV-- was in sight. Burning unecessary gas is a big no no nowadays...especially with the Hollywood types and the very rich.
I beat them all by *walking* to the party---everybody was very impressed.
Honda needs a super car to run on alternative fuels and they will sell like wild.
Drew
/I personally subscribe that there IS a little bit of Osama in every gallon of gasoline. We are all financing the terrorists.... If we stop buying oil: the Middle East will return to their [now] worthless pile of sand and we can get on with life.
- Joined
- 7 June 2005
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- 63
I agree with one thing... the fossil fuel era is at its peak. More and more automobile manufacturers are focusing less on engineering a "better" gasoline engine but rather to explore patents in alternative power. It is a well known fact that electric engines are lighter, and many times more efficient then gasoline engines. There is less moving parts = less friction = less fuel needed to operate. Recently I went with my engineering class to tour the Ballard Fuel Cell facility in Vancouver Canada, the top techs predict that by 2010 there will be an economically feasible, as in that it will cost the same as your average family sedan, hydrogen powered vehicle. The technology is already working flawlessly, there are hydrogen buses both in vancouver and Germany that have exceeded the engineers expectations. They even gave us a demonstration of a small hydrogen generator, no noise (man I am gonna miss the scream of my exhaust), small, weighed 25 times less then a comparable honda generator, and the best part of all; you can run it inside for 24 hours without falling into an endless sleep.
The Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price (MSRP) for the AirGen™ fuel cell generator is US $6,495.00<-- 1 kW
Lets grow some weed people!
Now you ask, what was the point of all that rambling? The point is that, suprise, GUESS WHO scrambled to buy up ballard's shares?
Ballard Power Systems (TSX: BLD; NASDAQ: BLDP) announced today the previously announced sale of its German subsidiary, Ballard Power Systems AG (BPSAG), to DaimlerChrysler AG (DaimlerChrysler) and Ford Motor Company (Ford) has closed as planned.
Toyota and Honda have also spent their "billions" on similar alternate fuel ventures.
Therefore we can look forward to 1000+ hp electric, noiseless , enzo-eating honda HSC. Talk about pedestrians being run over!
The Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price (MSRP) for the AirGen™ fuel cell generator is US $6,495.00<-- 1 kW
Lets grow some weed people!
Now you ask, what was the point of all that rambling? The point is that, suprise, GUESS WHO scrambled to buy up ballard's shares?
Ballard Power Systems (TSX: BLD; NASDAQ: BLDP) announced today the previously announced sale of its German subsidiary, Ballard Power Systems AG (BPSAG), to DaimlerChrysler AG (DaimlerChrysler) and Ford Motor Company (Ford) has closed as planned.
Toyota and Honda have also spent their "billions" on similar alternate fuel ventures.
Therefore we can look forward to 1000+ hp electric, noiseless , enzo-eating honda HSC. Talk about pedestrians being run over!
Are we still talking to/with Liftshard?....gas prices have come down..for now and who the hell cares what rich liberals in california are buying? they are not representative of most the people that can afford a new honda super car they are a small but very visible minority of car buyers....Screw Susan Sarandon!! and all her buddies!! they don't live in the real world..anyway back to the ranting :smile:
zahntech said:
I love it! Just like Bono being unable to comment at this time about how he is stopping the world hunger issue because he is to busy stepping out of his limo and boarding his private jet.
liftshard said:
This is good, I like this quote because It is WRONG...."Never" is a long time and If someone could predict "Never" or "Always" they would be the richest person on earth....I filled up my car today at 2.29$ per gal, 6 weeks ago I was paying 3.05$ per gal....sorry Lifts but as much as you know about Peak oil (which I do acknowledge as a reality) you do not know when the oil production is going to come to the point where prices will rise continually and never come back down at all..
Wow, suspended. I guess I saw that coming. Debate is fun, but it can be carried too far. Perhaps we witnessed that here, or maybe it was somewhere else that old Lift crossed the line.
In any case it hardly seems fair to pick when a party can't respond, so I won't.
What I will say is that there is little doubt that oil resources are finite, and will inevitably "run out" one day at the current rate of consumption. As resources dwindle Liftshard's assertions will become true- so his statements regarding "eventually" have elements of truth.
The problem I always had with this thread was the idea of a panic reaction, or irrational belief.
In fact, I have always had it on good authority that gas prices wouldn't continue going up, up, up as was stated, but I have it on equally good authority that they won't be dropping too much farther below the prices we have now. Prices that have more than doubled in the 15 years I have been driving.
I know this is particularly painful for some of our more mature members that recall filling up the tank for $5.00
But it is so much the reality, and the increases have been such that we are now actually relieved at the sight of $2.00 a gallon!
We are recovering from the disasters that facilitated demand, and temporarily hiked the prices last fall. We are all relieved to see the cost per gallon spiral back to "normal".
BUT...
As the resource gets tougher to find, the exploration costs to locate the oil and drill for it will increase, and we will see incremental increases as the years go by.
Everyone likes to look at the oil company earning reports and cite the astronomical numbers reported. Nobody likes to look at the balance sheet to see that the actual profit margin, after expenses is actually far less than that of many industries. There isn't nearly as much room to slash profit as many Americans believe.
Oil companies are the "Bad Guy" because they have what we want, and the price keeps increasing. Everyone thinks of their personal expense, but have little or no idea that the price per barrel of crude is set by speculators, and not the oil companies themselves. The general public doesn't know, or forgets that there are exploration, drilling, and refining costs, import/export duties, and other international obligations paid out by oil companies. Not to mention the transportation cost of getting the product out to the pump for our consumption.
We think we know everything by reading the paper, or an article in a magazine, but in reality we have barely scratched the surface in regards to the twists of that business.
Right now, prices have dropped to what was previously considered "civil", and we can all have a sigh of relief, but it won't last.
This is the world we live in, and we will see the prices continue to increase over the extended time lines of our lives. This is just a fact of life.
Does this mean Honda should cancel production of a nich sportscar?
In my opinion, "No".
Should we all be supportive of the idea of highly efficient, and alternative fuel vehicles? "Yes"
Will those technologies mean an end to high performance, and "track days"?
In my opinion- "No"
The important thing to remember is that no matter what happens- as long as there is a customer market for high performance, the manufacturers will respond to it. If that means hybrid sportscars, or electric sportscars then time will tell. As long as we have the need for speed,that need will be met with the resources available as it arises. For now we can keep the panic button in check, or we will drive ourselves to insanity with the anxiety.
The sky as it turns out, hasn't fallen.
Philip
In any case it hardly seems fair to pick when a party can't respond, so I won't.
What I will say is that there is little doubt that oil resources are finite, and will inevitably "run out" one day at the current rate of consumption. As resources dwindle Liftshard's assertions will become true- so his statements regarding "eventually" have elements of truth.
The problem I always had with this thread was the idea of a panic reaction, or irrational belief.
In fact, I have always had it on good authority that gas prices wouldn't continue going up, up, up as was stated, but I have it on equally good authority that they won't be dropping too much farther below the prices we have now. Prices that have more than doubled in the 15 years I have been driving.
I know this is particularly painful for some of our more mature members that recall filling up the tank for $5.00
But it is so much the reality, and the increases have been such that we are now actually relieved at the sight of $2.00 a gallon!
We are recovering from the disasters that facilitated demand, and temporarily hiked the prices last fall. We are all relieved to see the cost per gallon spiral back to "normal".
BUT...
As the resource gets tougher to find, the exploration costs to locate the oil and drill for it will increase, and we will see incremental increases as the years go by.
Everyone likes to look at the oil company earning reports and cite the astronomical numbers reported. Nobody likes to look at the balance sheet to see that the actual profit margin, after expenses is actually far less than that of many industries. There isn't nearly as much room to slash profit as many Americans believe.
Oil companies are the "Bad Guy" because they have what we want, and the price keeps increasing. Everyone thinks of their personal expense, but have little or no idea that the price per barrel of crude is set by speculators, and not the oil companies themselves. The general public doesn't know, or forgets that there are exploration, drilling, and refining costs, import/export duties, and other international obligations paid out by oil companies. Not to mention the transportation cost of getting the product out to the pump for our consumption.
We think we know everything by reading the paper, or an article in a magazine, but in reality we have barely scratched the surface in regards to the twists of that business.
Right now, prices have dropped to what was previously considered "civil", and we can all have a sigh of relief, but it won't last.
This is the world we live in, and we will see the prices continue to increase over the extended time lines of our lives. This is just a fact of life.
Does this mean Honda should cancel production of a nich sportscar?
In my opinion, "No".
Should we all be supportive of the idea of highly efficient, and alternative fuel vehicles? "Yes"
Will those technologies mean an end to high performance, and "track days"?
In my opinion- "No"
The important thing to remember is that no matter what happens- as long as there is a customer market for high performance, the manufacturers will respond to it. If that means hybrid sportscars, or electric sportscars then time will tell. As long as we have the need for speed,that need will be met with the resources available as it arises. For now we can keep the panic button in check, or we will drive ourselves to insanity with the anxiety.
The sky as it turns out, hasn't fallen.
Philip
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As far as gas prices are concerned, hey, what can you do? You need it; they've got it...as well as your nads. So...
I don't want to get into politics here, but rather than complain about high prices, why not take some steps to see that one day we are no longer dependent on foreign oil? Why not call your senators and representatives?? The same people (dems/libs) who say we shouldn't be dependent on foreign oil are also the ones who block the drilling of the oil we're sitting on, such as ANWR and the gulf of mexico. That's a bit of a double standard, isn't it?
Nothing much to this post...just wanted to make a point that many people tend to overlook: we can take a proactive role in the issue of fuel prices, that's all. :redface:
$0.02
I don't want to get into politics here, but rather than complain about high prices, why not take some steps to see that one day we are no longer dependent on foreign oil? Why not call your senators and representatives?? The same people (dems/libs) who say we shouldn't be dependent on foreign oil are also the ones who block the drilling of the oil we're sitting on, such as ANWR and the gulf of mexico. That's a bit of a double standard, isn't it?
Nothing much to this post...just wanted to make a point that many people tend to overlook: we can take a proactive role in the issue of fuel prices, that's all. :redface:
$0.02
Here, I fixed it for you:
Why not take some steps to see that one day we are no longer dependent on <strike>foreign</strike> <b>any</b> oil?
The faster we move off of oil, the better for everybody. The faster we do it: the faster the USA gets wealthy doing what it does best: creating new technology.
Honda is a forward looking company, hopefully they will not succumb to short sighted gains (more SUV's and gasoline V8/V10's)
I await the alternative fuel sports car and I'm willing to pay for it.
Drew
ANWR represents about about 3%, or an optimistic 590 days of oil, it will not impact the nation other than keeping the status quo in place (ie no new technology), ensure 18 months of revenue (for a few people, already rich) and infest another pristine corner of the globe with "pink goo".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arctic_Refuge_drilling_controversy
You need to come to Los Angeles where you can drive for 6-10 hours in a straight line and never know you changed cities...it all looks the same: densely packed cars, roads and subdivisions. The 24/7 brown air is very depressing.
drew said:
I'm willing to pay for it, too!! But, unfortunately, the alternative fuels will come on the scene overnight. Patience, young grasshopper :wink:
Sorry to hear about L.A. - I've been there many times and I feel your pain.
The cost of fuel today is not completely at odds with inflation...you remember the days of filling up your car for 5.00$? ..ok well how much did a 4 bedroom home cost then?....a loaf of bread?...almost all prices have gone up since we were kids and since our parents were kids..."aww i remember when gas was 5 cents a gallon!" ..ok grandpa...
If LA sucks so bad ..why don't you leave?
If LA sucks so bad ..why don't you leave?
zahntech said:
Werd
Like I said- Increases are a fact of life we have to deal with. To say that the prices are going to go up "eventually" is far from insightful, hell I wouldn't even say it is "observent" beyond the capabilities of a fourth grader. The difference will be the increments of increase rather than an immediate hit like the one we all took last fall.
I guess we can liken it to the concept of having the heat turned up so slowly you hardly notice your getting cooked...
Of course as a concerned person, I would like to see alternatives arise before I end up "done" so to speak, but I believe those technologies will filter in from the economy segment rather than from the high performance arena. If you look at the current trend, this seems to be the way it is progressing.
It starts with cars like the Insight, and the Prius, cars oriented toward buyers with economy in mind, then it filters out to your average joe buying their / sedan/minivan/SUV- and as the tech improves, and the performance improves, then we will see it start to filter into the performance segment.
I just don't see the logic of going the opposite direction, and starting at the top end- especially when the tech is so- "unrefined". Where do you put the heavy batteries in a sportscar anyway? Is the sportscar driver really going to put enough miles under the tires to make it worth while in fuel savings to go Hybrid, or is that tech better focused on the commuter car grocery getter segment? What do you think is the sales ratio of those more mundane vehicles to our beloved two seaters? Probably be better for the environment to switch over the millions of average cars before we start worrying about the thousands of nich cars... Don't you think?
If we are talking about alternative fuels, then some sort of distribution system for those fuels is going to need to go into place before we see alt fuel vehicles become more mainstream- once adequate infrastructure is in place manufacturers will start moving toward pushing the products to use it. I am sure Uncle Sam will be providing manufacturers with incentive to do so-
The alternative fuel issue also gets us all caught up in a chicken-egg argument- who goes first? Will the alt fuel suppliers build stations to service cars that haven't been adopted by the populace yet, or will the manufacturers build cars people can't get fuel for? I am not saying one won't go first, but it will take time to complete the process.
This means that whatever happens, it will happen gradually- probably too gradually for our Hollyweird friends who pontificate on how everything "should" be without consideration for what is required to actually make it happen.
I am awfully sorry to hear about the continuing plight of LA- I used to get out there 10 years ago- sounds like nothing has changed. That scummy looking marine layer marring the skyline was shocking even back in 95- Nothing new there, even though all the stars are driving Priuses? Most be all the Escalades, Bentley's, Lambo's, Ferrari's ect parked next to their fashionable Hybrid in the garage... You know, I have seen Cribs too, and a lot of those stars are doing some serious internal combusting. Really the pollution is more a function of the average joes out there commuting to their day jobs. A bunch of rich folks in Malibu cruising around in Priuses is hardly going to make a serious impact, is it- nice to see them setting an example though.
This is just my speculation, but I think if Honda came out with a hybrid sports car right now- it would flop. I have my doubts that the majority of the performance market wants it, and we don't really "need" it yet.
Should the car be ULEV, or SULEV? Absolutely- I think it should have some groundbreaking engine mangement, and architecture that will produce fuel efficient horsepower too,
But we already know it will have those things- After all it will be a Honda above all things, right?
The Prius is actually a pretty neat little car that is exceptionally practical- Good platform to demonstrate the technology. I have driven them extensively, and I like the generous host of features they are packaged with. I still think Honda is doing it better with their hybrid Civics, and Accords- they look normal, and for all intensive purposes are normal cars other than their hybrid engines. They aren't so much catering to the "fad" as they are practical solutions to reduce fuel consumption. To Toyota's credit- the hybrid RX330 seems to be in line with mainstreaming gas/electric engines.
I would be willing to bet that the first MAJOR steps taken in the movement toward the widespread adoption of alternative fuels will happen in California. Ya'll seriously need it.
While it seems like it can't happen soon enough- there are plenty of reasons for the pace of change- until then I guess it is just great cocktail conversation for the movie stars eh?
Philip
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