How did the marketplace on NSXPrime evolve in such way?

[VietNamNSX]

Bob go easy on him:wink: ,,he only has 22 thread starts,80% of which pertain to his selling some piece of his car,and then the whole car With 66 total posts 90% have been about selling his parts and car or complaining about his banking institution Alex,please I know it sounds like we are ganging up on you but you've got to expect this type of response when faced with your post history and the nature of this particular gripe.So laugh a little,and learn a little

Indeed, ha, I am learning quite bit about the esteemed individuals who said are to be mature and eloquent on this site--a few who moderate the "For sale" forum, no less. It makes one wondered! Of course someone as eloquent as yourself must be confuse... because our paths are different-and we all fought to see who have the last laugh in life. Yes, I have done nothing but selling parts and car up here, but please tell me, how is that wrong if that is the only thing I do up here? (Perhaps I have figured that my time should be invested in other matters.)

 

[RSO 34]

Yes, I have done nothing but selling parts and car up here, but please tell me, how is that wrong if that is the only thing I do up here? (Perhaps I have figured that my time should be invested in other matters.)

What is "wrong" is that you choose to denigrate the moderators because you are not able to take advantage of this free site quickly enough to suit your personal needs while offering nothing back in return. And if it took this diatribe to make you realize that your time should be invested in other matters then perhaps you have learned a valuable lesson that your impending departure has finally resulted in a contribution to this site.

 

[VietNamNSX]

Perhaps your should reconsider your sense of self-important confidence and realize that your methods of letting people know what you think are in the tenor of demands rather than suggestions.

What the hell am I doing? As everything that I needed to say, was already convey to the administrator of this board. The decision is up to him....

I want to apologize for my actions! Forgive me!

 

[docjohn]

:frown:

 

[VietNamNSX]

I rested my case! Have a good night!

 

[UnhuZ]

hummm... i see "free"... "money" allover....

which force me to ask this:
if i send a $200 contribution to Lud, would my opinions be more valuable???

i don't think the value of an argument, a fact, a opinion, has something to do with what kind of money transaction is behind it....

when i'll send some contribution to Lud's awesome work, i won't expect a different treatment...as i don't see me as a client of this site, but as a part of the community...
This is like, in my group of friends, who pays me coffees and drinks has more value to me than anyone else. For me that is completely wrong.

and yes...you can see my post history...i only have 1 transaction, and it was with RJP...:tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue:

and don't forget that if the site is free, and i value it very much, the info here that we all need it's also free...or do we have to start paying others for the info and knowledge they share?? :wink: :wink:

forgive me for my crazy thoughts..

 

[RSO 34]

which force me to ask this:
if i send a $200 contribution to Lud, would my opinions be more valuable???

i don't think the value of an argument, a fact, a opinion, has something to do with what kind of money transaction is behind it....

That was not the point of the earlier posts. I indicated that the OP had done nothing for this community other than to use this site for his personal gain through the sales of his parts and, ultimately, his car. Then after taking advantage of the ability to make such sales without incurring any advertising or listing expenses he had the temerity to complain about and insult the moderators who volunteer their time.

I did not intend to suggest that a monetary contribution to help with the costs of keeping this free site up and running makes any opinion more valuable or more worthy of respect. However, I do take issue with someone who has done nothing but take from the community and then contribute only complaints and vitriol in return.

 

[VietNamNSX]

That was not the point of the earlier posts. I indicated that the OP had done nothing for this community other than to use this site for his personal gain through the sales of his parts and, ultimately, his car.

I did not intend to suggest that a monetary contribution to help with the costs of keeping this free site up and running makes any opinion more valuable or more worthy of respect. However, I do take issue with someone who has done nothing but take from the community and then contribute only complaints and vitriol in return.

Unfortunately, and as kind as I am, your opinions mean little to me in this case, sir. There is only one, only one up here, that will decide whether you, or I, or anybody is worthy of using this site. I already stated that he already have heard my case in other posts and the decision will be up to him. It will not be up to you, nor I. From talking to him, I can tell you that he is a fair man. If he feels that you, or I, or someone else, is unworthy of this site due to any reason, his opinion will be heard... fair and square. Like you stated in your post, contribution of money doesn't make one's opinion more valuable or more worthy of respect.... Once again, if your opinion is that a title or some kind of recognition meant that much to you when you gave money away, then please, and I know you are, live in peace with your decisions. As for me, I have done my parts, which in this case, is not needed and does not make one a man... or a woman?

Who are you to question my character? I haven't personally attacked you in any post, or feel the needs to resort to such tactics? And I was so kind as to giving the discussion a break last night....

Yes, my opinion stands, and it was discussed with the administrator, that the system needs fixing. (I am sure the moderators are working, but nonetheless, the system, as a whole, needs an overhaul.) If your opinion differed, hey, more power to you--and I respected it.

People said that I have visionary eyes--that i should go out and perhaps open the way for others; since that is the case and I deemed the situation necesarry, must I remind you once again that, ultimately, there is only one decision up here that matters--and it belongs to the administrator? No one needs to lower their standard because of their disagreement with others, myself included; only the administrator, administrator, administrator, who will make the final decision.

Just like last night, from now on, I would like to direct all the comments to the administrator of this site--as he had already stated his case in earlier posts.

Another good new, as i have taken this discussion in stride, my "For sale" post has been approved. Now I am just waiting for it to be listed. Thank you administrator and moderators.

 

[Registered User]

Please read below

 

[UnhuZ]

Please read below

That's it!!!! i don't drink any kind of alchoolic drinks.....i'm sure that is my problem...:tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue:

 

[PhiAlpha44]

VietNAMnsx,

I know you are getting the brunt of this because you brought it up, but trust me... ALOT OF PEOPLE feel the EXACT same way you do. The marketplace here is really inconvenient. People don't realize that sometime you really need to sell something NOW to get a new part or to pay for something else, and that yes sometimes 3,4,7 days IS a long time to wait. Paid site, or un-paid site.... it needs to be better. I'm sure other car sites don't have PAID moderators for the classified section. I'm not sure I really understand why it is the way it is other than the guy whose site this is wants it that way because he wants it that way. As long as it remains bogged down with TOO MANY checks and balences people will continue to complain and it should just be a known fact for the future. If you want a real idea of what people thing, set up a poll about the market place.
And by the way, Ebay is a pretty dumb response to this because we all know that 90% of NSX owners that buy parts are probably on this site.

 

[OneRedNSX]

If you guys don't like it, start your own site. I really don't see why this has to be a topic of debate more than once (and this is quite far from being that one time anyway). When it is your playground, you get to make the rules for those of us that want to use the sandbox... when it isn't you just have to shut up and get in line with the rest of us till its your turn.

Give it up; you honestly think this will change anything or that it is the first time it has been brought up?

 

[NA1/2-R GT]

If you guys don't like it, start your own site. I really don't see why this has to be a topic of debate more than once (and this is quite far from being that one time anyway). When it is your playground, you get to make the rules for those of us that want to use the sandbox... when it isn't you just have to shut up and get in line with the rest of us till its your turn.

Give it up; you honestly think this will change anything or that it is the first time it has been brought up?

People like you makes this world a harder place to live in. If there's a problem fix it!!! not letting it go by and live with it!
The system/process need to improve. There are sign of favoritism all over the forum. So being an unfair moderator can, will and already have made many enymies.
I for one, had a big run in with the MODERATOR (whom's name I don't have to disclose and yet most people would know who I am talking about)
So yes, I did said something in regard to the Marketplace problems (moderator and process related) So at least I made an effort to voice my opinions and NOT being in the herd of cow down the pasture.
Please don't use "If you guys don't like it, start your own site" OR "It has always been like that" BS because those quote are for looser like you to say.
So all in all, if you don't have anything constructive to say on this thread I think you should just be quiet and follow your herd.
***IMHO***

 

[OneRedNSX]

People like you makes this world a harder place to live in. If there's a problem fix it!!! not letting it go by and live with it!
The system/process need to improve. There are sign of favoritism all over the forum. So being an unfair moderator can, will and already have made many enymies.
I for one, had a big run in with the MODERATOR (whom's name I don't have to disclose and yet most people would know who I am talking about)
So yes, I did said something in regard to the Marketplace problems (moderator and process related) So at least I made an effort to voice my opinions and NOT being in the herd of cow down the pasture.
Please don't use "If you guys don't like it, start your own site" OR "It has always been like that" BS because those quote are for looser like you to say.
So all in all, if you don't have anything constructive to say on this thread I think you should just be quiet and follow your herd.
***IMHO***

People like me don't make this a harder place to live; people like me realize the futility and absolute stupidity of arguing facts like these. This isn't the 'real world' you have such a hard time with. This is an internet website owned and maintained by a private individual who has ALLOWED you to participate on it, FOR FREE, without having to contribute to the operating costs of said website.

Yet once a month it seems somebody starts to complain about the for-sale forum and whines about 'favoritism" and rants on about 'there has to be a better way' yet makes no mention or offer to help with the operating costs of the site or the general improvement of it.

Just gimme, gimme, gimme.

And now, you have such a lack of a response, you just resort to personal insults and claim it all under the blanket of 'doing your part and voicing your opinion.' How noble of you. I'd thank you if you didn't appear like a greedy child.

You are on a FREE website getting FREE help and a FREE place to sell your merchandise for which you will receive 100% of the proceeds. Yet somehow this isn't good enough.

Well get off your cheap ass and pay the eBay listing fees if you don't like it.

Oh, wait. But thats not free!



oh. IMO of course.

 

[westernb4]

It is my belief that the Parts for Sale moderators, if their motives are as noble, altruistic, and selfless as they and a few other posters repeatedly tell us that they are, should pledge never to buy any marketplace items appearing on NSX Prime.

And incidentally, if posts in that forum appeared immediately after being submitted by the seller, then the playing field for all potential buyers would be levelled.

Thank you.

 

[UnhuZ]

(...) rants on about 'there has to be a better way' yet makes no mention or offer to help with the operating costs of the site or the general improvement of it.

Just gimme, gimme, gimme.(...)

I sugest you read better before you post... help was IN FACT offered by me and other members and, at least to me, no one replyed... i understand that Lud don't know me, i'm across the ocean and all... but i'm here on prime everyday... i could help...

 

[PhiAlpha44]

OneRedNSX,

I'm glad you are so easily pleased. The only problem I have is that so many people have a problem with the way it is, and the only answer given is something that sounds like a parent saying "it's like that because I said so" to their kids. That just doesn't sit well with some people. Yes a new site could be made, but that seems like an awful drastic step for such a truly small problem that is being made into something much bigger than it should just because of how it's being handled. Plus I think everyone here enjoys the sense of community we all have, and I don't think a divided NSX community is the answer either. Just my .02

 

[OneRedNSX]

I sugest you read better before you post... help was IN FACT offered by me and other members and, at least to me, no one replyed... i understand that Lud don't know me, i'm across the ocean and all... but i'm here on prime everyday... i could help...

I suggest YOU read better. Did I quote your reply when I said that? Did I mention your name in my post at all?

Nope. I was referring to NA1/2-r, not you so don't take it personally :wink:

OneRedNSX,

I'm glad you are so easily pleased. The only problem I have is that so many people have a problem with the way it is, and the only answer given is something that sounds like a parent saying "it's like that because I said so" to their kids. That just doesn't sit well with some people. Yes a new site could be made, but that seems like an awful drastic step for such a truly small problem that is being made into something much bigger than it should just because of how it's being handled. Plus I think everyone here enjoys the sense of community we all have, and I don't think a divided NSX community is the answer either. Just my .02

It has nothing to do with being 'easily pleased' or not. It has to do with being grateful for what we have and not biting the hand that feeds you.

My entire problem with the monotony of this subject is just what you stated.

The only problem I have is that so many people have a problem with the way it is, and the only answer given is something that sounds like a parent saying "it's like that because I said so" to their kids. That just doesn't sit well with some people.

1. If that is the answer that has been given time after time after time, does anybody honestly think it will change the next 50 times it is asked?

No.

2. It dosen't have to sit well with some people. Its not their website. If he wanted to make it so only people with user names that start with "W" can post for sale ads, its his prerogative and his alone. Yes, this is 'our' website, but it is not OUR website. Again, being grateful for what we have. He obviously has a problem with the marketplace going unsupervised. So be it. Better he do it this way to make himself feel better about it than to just close it completely and say 'have fun on eBay guys'.

If everybody is so concerned the first step would be to demonstrate that there wouldn't be a problem with being more lenient with the 'censorship' that is being complained about...

Even with it restricted to a listing-only forum, more than half the posts are still junk - people listing a car with no VIN or no price, people trying to "bump" their ad within 30 days, people creating multiple listings for the same item, etc. More than half. Yes most people are mature adults, but most people also do not bother to read any kind of rules or instructions when they want to use something.

But it seems like that won't happen anytime soon since people can't even follow the rules that are given now.

I understand that the Marketplace system is far from optimal, and improving it is one of my goals. However simply removing moderation and having it work like all those other forums is not in the cards.

This should have been the end of the discussion. Period. Regardless of who likes / dislikes the response, that is the response that has been given.

 

[nsxtasy]

I think there are several things that some people in this topic are losing sight of.

1. NSXprime is private property. "Censorship" is a highly biased (as well as emotional) term to use when complaining about what you can and can't say on private property. Censorship is a legitimate complaint when it comes to the inability to create your own publication to say whatever you want - and no one is stopping you from creating your own website and running it however you like. However, it is not a legitimate complaint about a privately owned and operated website. NSXprime is just like a privately-owned newspaper or magazine; the editor (or, in our case, the administrators) can decide which letters to print, and which ones to omit.

2. The owner-administrator is familiar with how other sites are run. It's easy to see from the experience on other websites that some policies work, and some policies don't. If you allow anyone to post anything without moderation, it shows up immediately. This is how many other sites work, including eBay and Autotrader, where plenty of scams have been perpetrated and subsequently reported here on NSXprime, as well as other car-related sites where free listings are permitted. Given the potential for people suffering actual financial damages if fraudulent marketplace postings are allowed without moderation, he has chosen to require a moderator to review them first. That's the decision he has made based on his familiarity with the consequences of open posting elsewhere.

3. The owner-administrator is reasonable and tries to do what is best for NSXprime and its users. I am familiar with many, many discussion websites, car-related and otherwise, and I cannot think of a single one whose management is as reasonable and thoughtful and accessible as this one. On this note, I should add that I haven't always agreed with the administrator here on some issues, and we have had our own disagreements. I have even been suspended in the past. But I still respect the fact that he is trying to do the right thing to make this the best site on the internet.

4. Many of us LIKE the way this site is managed. Despite the flames being posted by a few users in this topic, most of us appreciate the way this site is managed and the way people here behave. This includes the fact that people are expected to behave like adults, and by and large do so, without a whole lot of moderation needed in the first place. This also includes the fact that most of us understand the need for moderation in the classifieds, to prevent fraud and to prevent violations of the rules, which most of us consider reasonable. This topic is noteworthy because it is such an exception to the general tone prevalent throughout the discussions on this site. Those who are posting in this topic claiming that a lot of people don't like the way this site is run are just dead wrong.

5. Disagreements are best taken up in private. If you don't like the way things are run, try acting like an adult and having a private discussion, instead of complaining in public like a crying child who isn't getting his way. If you contact the owner-administrator in private about your concerns, I can guarantee you that he will listen to those concerns and give some thought to any ideas you may present about changing them. He may not agree with you or change things to your liking, but he'll give them serious consideration - almost certainly with a far more open mind than I've seen from those complaining here.

Disclaimer: I am not an administrator here and do not speak on behalf of those who are. The above is solely my personal opinion based on observing NSXprime since its creation.

 

[RSO 34]

What I further find troubling is the number of complaints about "why does it take so long for my post to show up?" Once again, you are being allowed to post items for sale FOR FREE and yet everyone seems to need the instant gratification of seeing their posts appear immediately rather than appreciate this no cost alternative to ebay and wait patiently for approval.

Ebay and Autotrader do no screening of their listings. We have had a recent thread on Prime where a fool was separated from his money because he thought that an NSX could be purchased for only $3500 INCLUDING SHIPPING. Such an ad would never have been permitted to go live for even one second on Prime. And, yes, it is difficult to believe that anyone falls for such scams but they do and it is commendable that Prime has a marketplace where that could not occur.

Another frequent complaint is that "I posted my 30 day bump but it took two days to show up." First of all, if your NSX or part did not sell in 30 days then another 2 days should not make any difference to you. Either you chose to price it too high or it just is not something that anyone wants in the first place. Secondly, your ad is still listed except you want it put back on top to be seen first so it is not like it cannot be found by searchers.

Here is an example of such a thread coincidentally posted by the OP of this thread. http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86813 He posted a 30 day bump on April 19 and complained at 1:30 AM on April 20 that his post was not yet live. Incredibly, he complained only 90 minutes into the 31st day that his post was not yet approved.

That is the type of behavior of which I disapprove. It is not a situation where proper posts are never showing up; rather, the typical complainer simply does not like having to wait. If Baskins Robbins announced that tomorrow everyone is entitled to a free sundae would you complain that you had to wait in line to get it?

 

[RPM217]

Plus the OP, joins the site barely 1 year ago, has no info on him or his car in his profile, and has not contributed to Prime's support in anyway, and than has the audacity to weigh in with multiple complaints, with supporter like this.......................

 

[UnhuZ]

I suggest YOU read better. Did I quote your reply when I said that? Did I mention your name in my post at all?

Nope. I was referring to NA1/2-r, not you so don't take it personally :wink:

My bad... when i've read, i've taken that personally...not as an attack or somehow offensive, but as directed to me....for that, i'm sorry.


I read a lot about the marketplace wouldn't run good if unmoderated...i agree with that...

but what i defend is that the posts are moderated AFTER they appear and not BEFORE.... i think that everything has to have rules because there is at least one person to abuse the system at any given time....

and i'm talking as a buyer not seller.... although i'll possibly sell parts in the future....

i just think that we all are grown ups and can use some good old common sense and can openly talk about any issue....even about improvements / malfunctions of Prime... nothing is perfect....not even Prime ... well... but it's close enough :wink: :wink:

 

[PhiAlpha44]

My bad... when i've read, i've taken that personally...not as an attack or somehow offensive, but as directed to me....for that, i'm sorry.


I read a lot about the marketplace wouldn't run good if unmoderated...i agree with that...

but what i defend is that the posts are moderated AFTER they appear and not BEFORE.... i think that everything has to have rules because there is at least one person to abuse the system at any given time....

and i'm talking as a buyer not seller.... although i'll possibly sell parts in the future....

i just think that we all are grown ups and can use some good old common sense and can openly talk about any issue....even about improvements / malfunctions of Prime... nothing is perfect....not even Prime ... well... but it's close enough :wink: :wink:

+1

 

[NSX Prime]

If you want a real idea of what people thing, set up a poll about the market place.

You mean like this? http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36460

I created that poll because then, like now, there were a few people very vocal about their dissatisfaction with the Marketplace - all the same issues (approval speed to slow, shouldn't need moderation, moderators shouldn't be able to buy stuff from ads they are approving, etc.). I was extremely surprised, after hearing how dissatisfied a few people were, that the poll results were so overwhelmingly positive. The only change since that poll is that you can no longer reply to other people's ad.

"nsxtasy" summed it up very well a few posts back in points 1 - 4: I know what the options are. I know what the tradeoffs are. I know where the site needs improvement (probably better than most people). I try to run the site the best way I can in the time I have available.

If someone is not satisfied with some aspect of this site, they are welcome to express constructive criticism. The one point I disagree with nsxtasy on from his post above is that you do not need to contact me privately. I will read your message but probably won't have time to respond to individual e-mails. If you are thinking it, others probably are too, so just post it here. And while constructive suggestions are welcome, people need to realize that I cannot accommodate everybody, and that continually complaining when they don't get their way doesn't help anything.

I have well over 100 e-mails in my NSX Prime inbox that need responding to, and I just spent 15 minutes rehashing this same discussion for the nth time and accomplishing nothing. This will be my last post in this thread.

 

[4AU4LIFE]

It is my belief that the Parts for Sale moderators, if their motives are as noble, altruistic, and selfless as they and a few other posters repeatedly tell us that they are, should pledge never to buy any marketplace items appearing on NSX Prime.

And incidentally, if posts in that forum appeared immediately after being submitted by the seller, then the playing field for all potential buyers would be levelled.

Thank you.

I don't think it would be fair for them, since they are obviously owners, to not be allowed to buy something from the Prime just because they are volunteering their time.
I've seen ANYTIME personally state that if there is something that he wants from the marketplace that he allows it to be posted for a day or two before making a move on it so no favortism is shown.
If the ads were posted immediately then depending on the time of day, those of us on the East coast might not get a chance to see something that a West coast person posts due to the hour differential.
See where I'm going with this....