How many people paid Cash vs Financed? NA1 vs NA2

[Patricio]

People keep on talking about the NSX demographics changing due to cars getting cheaper.. causing younger immature buyers....Ricers...... Whatever..

Lets see if its true. Whether or not the cost to acquire has dropped?
This poll serves to analyze if it is indeed now cheaper to "acquire" / less cash on hand needed.

It is well believed to be more difficult to acquire/purchase a over 10 year old car than a 2002 due to lack of financing on the older cars.

Lets not go into motives for financing vs cash or pros and negatives of what else you could do with the money, investments and so on...

As cars get older you need more cash to acquire even though the total price is less... affording a 30k new STI and a 1991 30K NSX requires two entirely different financial situations. Therefore meaning the NSX will not turn into a ricers toy just because their 30k. It's easier to finance a new Z06 than finance a $30k 15 year old NSX and paying $30K cash even harder. Thats what makes them still a dream car for most, even 30K though does not seem like allot of money.

 

[ChopsJazz]

Cash, over 10 years ago.

 

[Zette]

Cash, 6 mos ago. And I'm 28.

 

[RON98]

if i didnt earn it out right, i dont deserve it.

 

[slamstrom]

Cash on a 97.

 

[Da Hapa]

Paid cash for my 1998. I hate having car payments.

 

[MartinSD]

Greetings

Cash on a 2003.

Martin

 

[NSXAMG996TT]

Financed my first NA2 car when I was 28. Eight years later, paid cash for NA1.

Learned my lesson early on...never pay interest on depreciating assets such as cars. If I don't have the dough, then the toys have to wait.

 

[MC36]

Cash on '97. 11 year wait gave me time to pad the coffers!:tongue:

 

[NsXMas]

Hmmm, I stole mine (being a sheep herder there was no option to pay cash or finance, and the seller wouldn't take 100 heads of sheep). How come that's not on the list of options to vote?

 

[redshift]

Cash NA1. However, if I could have financed around 5% at the time I would have - it would've been stupid not to.

I agree with your analysis that older cars are harder to finance. I do not think that "rice" is correlated to purchase price. In fact, I think "rice" is expensive and is usually practiced by those with greater means - though I have absolutely no evidence to support that.

Either way, the age demographic is younger, plain and simple. I don't car how hard it is to finance a dinosaur, when it is 1/3 the price of a new car then it is easier to obtain no matter how you go about raising the money.

 

[NsXMas]

Hey Erin - I just got a message from Frank Heydrich on myspace (ok it was from Jan 10th but I never log into myspace):

Do you know if he sold his car?

PS - wanna get together for lunch sometimes?

 

[Patricio]

.....
Either way, the age demographic is younger, plain and simple. I don't car how hard it is to finance a dinosaur, when it is 1/3 the price of a new car then it is easier to obtain no matter how you go about raising the money.

How do you figure? There are way less people on earth with 30k disposable than people that can finance up to 80k cars.

I'll say it in a different way...
There are more people eligible to finance a New NSX at 80k than ones have 30K cash disposable towards a old car. This is a fact. All you gotta do is be on the job 1 year and make 60k/yr you can finance anything up to 8 years old and 80k. now having 30k cash takes a whole different financial situation.

I'm not saying financing is bad obviously there are better things to with cash, I finance any thing I possibly can as often as possible, using other peoples money to make money is what I do, I paid cash becasue of timing and logistics but I do NOT frown upon financing.

Just proving simply, that the NSX in NOT becoming easier to obtain, it IS becoming HARDER to obtain as it becomes older even though the total price is less.

Old cars is were money talkes go try to finance a 1999 360 modena for 90k and then apply for a 45k 92 348 ferrari let me know which approval you have an easier time getting:wink:

Better yet go apply for a new GT-R for 70k than apply for a 1993 Supra TT for 30K let me know which one is easier to aquire:wink:

 

[quack]

These threads are getting rediculous. Can I afford, how did you pay, How much to make? Sheep herding taxes.:biggrin: IMHO these should be in offtopic or just cease to exist.

 

[Patricio]

These threads are getting rediculous. Can I afford, how did you pay, How much to make? Sheep herding taxes.:biggrin: IMHO these should be in offtopic or just cease to exist.

I wish I could avoid posting this thing but its annoying when every other thread is some PRIME'R posting negative crap
Their pissed because..
2002's went down a little in value like 5% and the NA1's did not.
Or.. people under 30 are buying NSX's
Or.. a NSX will be on Fast and Furious
Or.. a new guy is selling knock off parts.
Or.. their mad about people modifying NSX's and calling them Rice...
Or.. Me trying to get NADA to up their value, & we succeeded.
Or.. Air intakes supposedly don't work, which they do.
Or.. they the NSX cannot be improved upon everything does not work

Young people this..... and that..... yes.... theres a lot of under 30's here and we have money were not rice and we are smart talented individuals. The NSX prime squatters need to get off the cheap NA1's brining NSX's membership quality down thing. Some of us are gonna be on this forum long after some of you are to old to remember NSXprime anymore. The "squatters" as I call some people don't say anything constructive, and post 3 times a day "use the search button" (nice way to welcome prospective buyers to your site a**holes.

it just seems like someone needs to post things contrary to their negative assumptions and old non-welcoming, "kids are no good" habits.

 

[4AU4LIFE]

why bother spending YOUR money on a car....just steal one :biggrin:

 

[heySkippy]

Well I'll go against the tide here and admit I financed my '95 (with our HELOC). Even if I'd had $30k cash laying around I'm not sure I would have paid cash for the car.

 

[TitaniumVtec]

I paid cash. However, the bank wants me to pay it back each month. :biggrin: At 5% I couldn't pass it up. Needless to say, I didn't have that much cash on hand anyway.

 

[Sean Firth]

Let me put it out for my current situation.

Let me toss my hat into the ring here.

I am 29, make a good living, am moving into a new house next week, and getting married this coming July. That being said, I have a few situations at hand. Firstly most of my liquid cash is spoken for right now, having a few life altering (in a good way) situations looming very near on the horizon. Secondly, I have invested more than enough to buy a very good condition early NA2 at Canadian pricing, and am currently making about 7% on a fairly conservative fund. Finally, I have my credit line set up through my bank charged at prime rate, which as of right this second is 5.75%.

Were I to buy the NSX cash, I would be losing 1.25% of the previously invested money every year until I would have paid the car back regardless. While that may not sound like a lot, it does add up. Some of you may not be comfortable with payments, but that is a personal decision, and I can fully understand and appreciate it. Myself, I don't necessarily like payments, but can balance the positives and negatives. Now I just have to find a damn car I like.

 

[NSX GT]

Has this topic come up just a few weeks ago? Oh well, Paid Cash and drove away with the 93 NSX. Now, I'm paying more cash on the mods.:tongue:

 

[redshift]

How do you figure? There are way less people on earth with 30k disposable than people that can finance up to 80k cars.

I'll say it in a different way...
There are more people eligible to finance a New NSX at 80k than ones have 30K cash disposable towards a old car. This is a fact. All you gotta do is be on the job 1 year and make 60k/yr you can finance anything up to 8 years old and 80k. now having 30k cash takes a whole different financial situation.

I understood what you were trying to say, no clarification necessary. Here is my point:
It is not impossible to finance a 15 year old car, just more difficult. I know for a fact that my insurer will give me a secured loan on any asset purchase that is reasonably easy to value and liquid. I'm sure plenty of people on prime have financed their NA1s.

Also, the median liquid net worth of an American household is $71K and the median income is only $44K (take these statistics with a grain of salt). So according to out gov't data collectors, there are more people who can afford to buy the car outright than there are who can finance it - using your example, the median American can't finance the $80K car but they can buy the $30K car with cash - that is the exact opposite of your thesis.

I'm really not arguing your point of view. I think it is valid for your experience; my personal experience is that most people can get access to $30K a lot easier than they can $80K... this might assume that the plain vanilla auto-loan isn't the only way to "borrow" money, but not necessarily.

Anyhow, I personally believe the NSX is becoming easier to obtain as the price comes down. That is the opinion I have formulated based on my interpretation of the data, my own experience certainly adds bias... YMMV.

 

[redshift]

Let me put it out for my current situation.

Let me toss my hat into the ring here.

I am 29, make a good living, am moving into a new house next week, and getting married this coming July. That being said, I have a few situations at hand. Firstly most of my liquid cash is spoken for right now, having a few life altering (in a good way) situations looming very near on the horizon. Secondly, I have invested more than enough to buy a very good condition early NA2 at Canadian pricing, and am currently making about 7% on a fairly conservative fund. Finally, I have my credit line set up through my bank charged at prime rate, which as of right this second is 5.75%.

Were I to buy the NSX cash, I would be losing 1.25% of the previously invested money every year until I would have paid the car back regardless. While that may not sound like a lot, it does add up. Some of you may not be comfortable with payments, but that is a personal decision, and I can fully understand and appreciate it. Myself, I don't necessarily like payments, but can balance the positives and negatives. Now I just have to find a damn car I like.

Sean, that is a good perspective. Basically you're taking the spread on the loan and your personal rate of return. You're getting paid 1.25% for risk between the two deployment choices of your capital. This is how everybody should assess financial decisions before coming to a conclusion. Either choice they decide to go with, at least they understand the "cost."

 

[Patricio]

I understood what you were trying to say, no clarification necessary. Here is my point:
It is not impossible to finance a 15 year old car, just more difficult. I know for a fact that my insurer will give me a secured loan on any asset purchase that is reasonably easy to value and liquid. I'm sure plenty of people on prime have financed their NA1s.

Correct not impossible, but you must be financially stable beyond that of normal financing, old car lenders have a lot more financial conditions than that of a conventional lender

Also, the median liquid net worth of an American household is $71K and the median income is only $44K (take these statistics with a grain of salt). So according to out gov't data collectors, there are more people who can afford to buy the car outright than there are who can finance it - using your example, the median American can't finance the $80K car but they can buy the $30K car with cash - that is the exact opposite of your thesis.


average household making 71k yr does not have 10k nor hardly a pot to piss in.

I'm really not arguing your point of view. I think it is valid for your experience; my personal experience is that most people can get access to $30K a lot easier than they can $80K... this might assume that the plain vanilla auto-loan isn't the only way to "borrow" money, but not necessarily.

I very very, highly doubt there are more people with $30K cash disposable towards a toy than qualifying for a $80k car loan. Most of America lives paycheck to pay check even if they make 100k /yr MOST are still broke and don't have even 15k in the bank. thats is fact

Anyhow, I personally believe the NSX is becoming easier to obtain as the price comes down. That is the opinion I have formulated based on my interpretation of the data, my own experience certainly adds bias... YMMV.

5 years ago I applied for a loan for a classic car for $22k, w/ a 735 credit score. I got turned down, 2 months later I bought my first home $370k, applied for a classic car again got tuned down again so I financed a 2 year old M3 for $35k without a problem. 5 years later and many transactions later I bought my NSX cash. Old car financers require you to have 3 previous car loans in good standing and will only finance based on 15% of monthly income, meaning 30k car is 600mth so you have to make 5k month which is 70k yr to finance a $30k old car. vs new cars lenders allow up to 28% of monthly income for payments and need only one previous leoan history to automatically quality for over $50k car. Those are the lending practices generally practiced by automatic underwriting systems. don't ask me how I know.

....

 

[redshift]

average household making 71k yr does not have 10k nor hardly a pot to piss in.

I agree, but that isn't what I said... the median household (not average) has $71K in liquid assets and earns $44K/year. That means that Joe Median could buy almost any NSX outright, if he wants to blow his wad on a car. I also means that he is unlikely to obtain financing on that $80K car since he has a low income. What that tells me is that most American's can buy the car with cash, but not finance it. Of course, NSX owners are probably in a much higher socioeconomic class than Joe Median, but that's what the numbers say for the masses.

I very very, highly doubt there are more people with $30K cash disposable towards a toy than qualifying for a $80k car loan. Most of America lives paycheck to pay check even if they make 100k /yr MOST are still broke and don't have even 15k in the bank. thats is fact

If that is a fact, then show the data that qualifies it, and please don't use the bogus "savings" numbers our gov't prints. I find it very hard to believe that most American's live paycheck-to-paycheck, but that doesn't mean they don't, I just find it very hard to believe. I welcome the data that shows me otherwise.

Anyhoooooo... I think there is truth to both of our perspectives. My observation is that the ownership crowd is getting younger, but I have a very short time frame that I'm basing that off of. The simple fact that I fall back on is that young people have much more purchasing power than we did 10 years ago (real wages have outstripped inflation), and the car's value has declined at a faster clip than that wage increase. The information age has been extremely dis-inflationary and made many young entrepreneurs, and their colleagues, very wealthy. Young people have more real wealth than they ever have had in the past and the NSX is less expensive than it has ever been (inflation adjusted).

All that aside, I agree with what you say about financing being more difficult. I just don't believe that holds back NSX ownership to the extent that you do... I could be wrong. :smile:

 

[prestonmay]

Well I'll go against the tide here and admit I financed my '95 (with our HELOC). Even if I'd had $30k cash laying around I'm not sure I would have paid cash for the car.

same here---at 2.9 apr---I rather have 30k in the bank and pay a small payment. The cars are popular, but most people dont want to pay you asking price. I do not look at it as an investment....BUt I am sure I will get more for it when I resell them...I hope If needed i could pay it off ...I paid cash for 745 BMW in 2002....82k....Boy was I sick for a week. I will never pay cash for any car again unless its a steal...or stolen..lol nor buy new.....

I put half down....