Motion Control Suspension (MCS) for NSX

[mwagner10702]

I am in the process of installing MCS 2-way dampers with external reservoirs and Eibach race springs on my 1994. The goal is a more compliant street ride (compared to my existing Bilsteins / Zanardis) with a firmer profile for track days. I'll post my impressions once the project is complete.

For those of you who are not familiar with MCS, it was started by Jerome van Gool and Lex Carson. Jerome was the "J" in JRZ shocks. After selling his interests he formed Moton. Lex Carson was involved with both sales and technical roles at Moton. When AST bought Moton both Jerome and Lex went on to start Motion Control Suspension (MCS).

 

[scammy]

For those of you who are not familiar with MCS, it was started by Jerome van Gool and Lex Carson. Jerome was the "J" in JRZ shocks. After selling his interests he formed Moton. Lex Carson was involved with both sales and technical roles at Moton. When AST bought Moton both Jerome and Lex went on to form Motion Control Suspension (MCS).

didnt know that so interested to hear more about these when you have them on

 

[RYU]

I am in the process of installing MCS 2-way dampers with external reservoirs and Eibach race springs on my 1994. The goal is a more compliant street ride (compared to my existing Bilsteins / Zanardis) with a firmer profile for track days. I'll post my impressions once the project is complete.

For those of you who are not familiar with MCS, it was started by Jerome van Gool and Lex Carson. Jerome was the "J" in JRZ shocks. After selling his interests he formed Moton. Lex Carson was involved with both sales and technical roles at Moton. When AST bought Moton both Jerome and Lex went on to form Motion Control Suspension (MCS).

didnt know that so interested to hear more about these when you have them on

It's always entertaining to hear the backgrounds of these guys. I believe the head guys from JRZ, Moton, KW, MCS, etc.. all started from Koni. Nice to see more options become available.

The only struggle I have (as same with OP) is that damping sensations are so subjective. It's like the eternal curse of most new owners. There's no easy way to quantify performance of dampers and so many variables that opinions tend to come off as heresay.

 

[Mac Attack]

I am in the process of installing MCS 2-way dampers with external reservoirs and Eibach race springs on my 1994. The goal is a more compliant street ride (compared to my existing Bilsteins / Zanardis) with a firmer profile for track days. I'll post my impressions once the project is complete.

For those of you who are not familiar with MCS, it was started by Jerome van Gool and Lex Carson. Jerome was the "J" in JRZ shocks. After selling his interests he formed Moton. Lex Carson was involved with both sales and technical roles at Moton. When AST bought Moton both Jerome and Lex went on to start Motion Control Suspension (MCS).

When I lived in SC about five years ago I was considering dropping my car off with them to develop a system for me. I know of only one other NSX with their coilovers, and it was strictly a track rat so I couldn't really judge how I would like it with my mostly street NSX. I'm sure it will be a huge step up from the Bilsteins!

 

[Mac Attack]

I am in the process of installing MCS 2-way dampers with external reservoirs and Eibach race springs on my 1994. The goal is a more compliant street ride (compared to my existing Bilsteins / Zanardis) with a firmer profile for track days. I'll post my impressions once the project is complete.

For those of you who are not familiar with MCS, it was started by Jerome van Gool and Lex Carson. Jerome was the "J" in JRZ shocks. After selling his interests he formed Moton. Lex Carson was involved with both sales and technical roles at Moton. When AST bought Moton both Jerome and Lex went on to start Motion Control Suspension (MCS).

Any update please? What spring rates did you go with?

 

[mwagner10702]

Any update please? What spring rates did you go with?

Finally have all the parts in. MCS makes the valving special for the NSX (with the spec'd Eibachs below) so it takes longer for them to manufacturer the dampers. Going with Eibach race springs; 6 inch 2.25ID 550lb front and 7 inch 2.25ID 450lb in the rear along with Hyperco helper springs. Also using AMR Engineering billet spherical upper mounts. Thought about new OEM mounts but there is too much flex in the rubber bushes. Scheduled to be installed March 20/21. I will post pictures of the install for everyone to review. This should be a great street/track setup. Can't wait.

 

[Mac Attack]

Thanks. Sounds like some excellent choices, and I look forward to hearing how much better these are than the bilstein/zanardi combo.

 

[mwagner10702]

thanks, makes sense they don't like rough roads.

That's the problem with non-adjustable dampers.

 

[Mac Attack]

Are you referring to MCS? They've been in business since 2011. Jerome has over 26 years in the industry and Lex has over 24. They manufacturer in the US (Georgia) and unlike some other damper manufacturers, MCS's repair facility is housed with manufacturing which makes for quick (and hassle-free) rebuilds, repairs, re-valves, etc.

I suspect they will be in business for a long time. If you are considering new dampers, these guys should be on the top of your list, especially if you track or race competitively with your car.

Here is a link to a recent podcast by the Cars Yeah guys with Jerome.

http://traffic.libsyn.com/carsyeah/Jerome_van_Gool_Final.mp3

https://www.facebook.com/MotionControlSuspension/

They've been in business since 2011. Exactly. Five to six years ago when I said I last checked into them they had only been in business for a year or two. And back then I only lived a few hours away from them. I don't recall them offering their cheaper setup, so it would have set me back a good $4k. While their credentials and previous products are impressive, you got to wonder about them jumping ship so many times. At least, that was my main concern.... I'm glad to hear they are doing well.

However, there is a lot of competition. Ohlins TTX, Penske, Moton, JRZ, etc are all similar competitors. I think it mainly comes down to support and flexibility in the future. You really can't go wrong with any of these.

 

[RYU]

That was, in fact, one of the reasons I didn't go with them. Who knows how long they will be in business for?

Also, costs for the NSX are listed on the MCS webpage depending what setup you want. They seem reasonable. At least they were five years ago when I looked into them.

That's true. I guess that can also be a bad thing. Honestly, I chose JRZ because of local support and the support i've received has been worth the $$$ ten fold. They were even nice enough to dyno the R dampers and rebuilt a damper due to a faulty hose seal. Amazing service really... Most people hardly talk about the importance of support here. Even KW, i've heard are getting to be finicky even about proving warranty coverage.

It's like.. the awesome performance of the JRZs are just a bonus. Pretty happy with them. To be honest, I hated the Ohlins R&T on my S2000 but that's because of the lowsy travel, little droop in the rear dampers. The damping was ok until it bottoms out and freaks out.

 

[docjohn]

That's the problem with non-adjustable dampers.

if you know what you are doing and have the patience and data logging to support your setting choice....

 

[mwagner10702]

However, there is a lot of competition. Ohlins TTX, Penske, Moton, JRZ, etc are all similar competitors. I think it mainly comes down to support and flexibility in the future. You really can't go wrong with any of these.

Agreed.

 

[RYU]

I am in the process of installing MCS 2-way dampers with external reservoirs and Eibach race springs on my 1994. The goal is a more compliant street ride (compared to my existing Bilsteins / Zanardis) with a firmer profile for track days. I'll post my impressions once the project is complete.

For those of you who are not familiar with MCS, it was started by Jerome van Gool and Lex Carson. Jerome was the "J" in JRZ shocks. After selling his interests he formed Moton. Lex Carson was involved with both sales and technical roles at Moton. When AST bought Moton both Jerome and Lex went on to start Motion Control Suspension (MCS).

Pardon my instigating drama queen post but I ran into a post from JRZ on Facebook

Is Jan Zuijdijk the same guy as Jerome van Gool? Jan claims he's the J in JRZ. I just thanked him for a nice damper. It's not a big deal. It just reminded me of this thread.

His comment:
Jan ZuijdijkYes I am, Ibrought in 40 years of experience in R and D

https://www.facebook.com/JRZSuspension/posts/1859350034104452

<iframe src="https://www.facebook.com/plugins/post.php?href=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2FJRZSuspension%2Fposts%2F1859350034104452&width=500" width="500" height="748" style="border:none;overflow:hidden" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true"></iframe>

 

[mwagner10702]

Pardon my instigating drama queen post but I ran into a post from JRZ on Facebook

Is Jan Zuijdijk the same guy as Jerome van Gool? Jan claims he's the J in JRZ. I just thanked him for a nice damper. It's not a big deal. It just reminded me of this thread.

His comment:
Jan ZuijdijkYes I am, Ibrought in 40 years of experience in R and D

https://www.facebook.com/JRZSuspension/posts/1859350034104452

<iframe src="https://www.facebook.com/plugins/post.php?href=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2FJRZSuspension%2Fposts%2F1859350034104452&width=500" width="500" height="748" style="border:none;overflow:hidden" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true"></iframe>

Jerome Van Gool, Rob DeRijk and Jan Zuijdijk are the three founders of JRZ.

 

[RYU]

Jerome Van Gool, Rob DeRijk and Jan Zuijdijk are the three founders of JRZ.

That makes sense. I suppose they could have gone with JRJ haha

 

[mwagner10702]

That makes sense. I suppose they could have gone with JRJ haha

Between the three names there is almost every letter in the alphabet.

 

[mwagner10702]

Installation tomorrow . . .



I'll have more pictures soon.

 

[mwagner10702]

Finished up the MCS damper installation today. I’ll have a more comprehensive review in the near future, however it started raining after I got the car home so no joy. I will say on my brief drive home I noticed a significant difference in low speed damping verses the Bilstein / Zanardi combo I previously had on the car even though the new spring rates are significantly higher. Much smoother over road irregularities such as manhole covers and the like.

The new Eibach springs are 550lbs in the front and 450lbs in the rear (very close to the 02+ NSX-R rates). I used one of Cody Loveland's (LOVEFAB) front titanium upper chassis braces to mount the front canisters. The rear canisters were mounted on the existing rear chassis brace.

The dampers are set as follows:

Canister pressure = 175 psi

Front
Compression = 2
Rebound = 9

Rear
Compression = 1
Rebound = 6

Corner Balance Numbers
LF = 671
RF = 642
LR = 924
RR = 902

Total weight with 200lb driver (yikes!) and full fuel = 3139

Crossweights
LF+RR = 1573
RF+LR = 1566
7lb difference

This is a good starting point for the street. I’ll use some upcoming track days to sort out the track settings. Here are some pictures of the installation. Pardon my messy inner fenders. Much of the undercoat has “left the building” and I am hesitant to recoat it as I will probably make it look worse.

FRONT:


REAR:

 

[docjohn]

Am I loosing my mind that the helper/tender spring is mounted correctly on one side but reversed on the other?

 

[mwagner10702]

Am I loosing my mind that the helper/tender spring is mounted correctly on one side but reversed on the other?

The shop that did the install prefers this setup on the NSX based on their race history and the NSX suspension design. With the front tire on the ground the spring assembly looks like this.

UPDATE: Checked with the shop. The helper springs are configured that way for control arm clearance.



I will say this even with the NSX-R spring rates the ride is very compliant. It's firm, but having the ability of dialing back the compression settings (benefit of going with the 2-way remote reservoirs) introduces a suppleness (or maybe less of a sharp compression characteristic) I didn't have with the Bilstein / Zanardi setup.

Can't wait to put more miles on this setup.

 

[mwagner10702]

Here are my final alignment specifications



View attachment Alignment.pdf

 

[docjohn]

for those drivers who gain enough spirited /track/hpde experience and develop a good sense for car control improving on the more street focused oem suspension can lead to a permanent smile and the results can be amazing...

 

[JLCoolman]

@docjohn - we recently dynoed a set of NA2 Type R Showas and it's not the spring rate (as I run nearly the same rates on my JRZs) but the rebound was off the charts. Compression was quite firm too but within reason.

[MENTION=20915]RYU[/MENTION], that's great that you were able to dyno a set of Type Rs.
Sorry, I was of no help, lol.

mwagner, that MCS looks like a pretty trick setup. I'm with docjohn, that helper spring configuration on the rear threw me off for a bit, but I'm a little more intrigued as to why there isn't a collar between helper/main spring on the rear like there is on the front.

 

[Jinks]

Here are my final alignment specifications

View attachment 152055

View attachment 152054

That suspension setup looks awesome! What did that set you back if you don’t mind me asking?

 

[mwagner10702]

[MENTION=31260]Jinks[/MENTION] - sent you a PM.