New Gun Owner

[Vega$ NSX]

What...Vegas with an antique!??!

Hey just because I shoot and carry space guns, doesn't mean I don't have a deep appreciation for dem oldies but goodies. Besides it would look great next to my wax cylinder player and dinosaur fossils. :tongue::biggrin:

Now out at the range today (yes, was twice this week for me) I decided to run some Mozambiques...

Did you just finish watching the movie Collateral? :biggrin:

 

[RJPKRP]

Hey just because I shoot and carry space guns, doesn't mean I don't have a deep appreciation for dem oldies but goodies. Besides it would look great next to my wax cylinder player and dinosaur fossils. :tongue::biggrin:

It'll look nice in your museum!

Did you just finish watching the movie Collateral? :biggrin:

Not sure I know that one. Any good?





ALSO.....one very important thing that hasn't been touched on in the whole revolver vs auto-loader debate is this: a revolver cannot be pressed out of battery! At that point, 15 rounds doesn't do the shooter any good, especially if they have no idea (i.e. no continued training, have only "familiarized" themselves with the weapon) why the pistol isn't firing. Probably another reason revolvers get recommended for those "just looking for something for home defense".

 

[neuralpathways]

ALSO.....one very important thing that hasn't been touched on in the whole revolver vs auto-loader debate is this: a revolver cannot be pressed out of battery!

Neither can my CZ P01 Compact. I'm sure there are others out there that also have this feature.

But in support of your post, MOST semi-automatics will go out of battery when pressed firmly against another object (bad guy's chest or hand in a fight).

 

[Vega$ NSX]

Not sure I know that one. Any good?

Tom Cruise plays some sort of hit man and does multiple two in the chest, one in the head kills in the movie. Thought of that when you mentioned Mozambique drills.

 

[Vega$ NSX]

It'll look nice in your museum!

 

[808NA1]

ALSO.....one very important thing that hasn't been touched on in the whole revolver vs auto-loader debate is this: a revolver cannot be pressed out of battery! At that point, 15 rounds doesn't do the shooter any good, especially if they have no idea (i.e. no continued training, have only "familiarized" themselves with the weapon) why the pistol isn't firing. Probably another reason revolvers get recommended for those "just looking for something for home defense".

By the time you'd even try to grab the slide, I'd probably have dumped at least two rounds into you.

BTW, ever tried grabbing the cylinder on a revolver. The trigger isn't going anywhere.

 

[RJPKRP]

By the time you'd even try to grab the slide, I'd probably have dumped at least two rounds into you.

BTW, ever tried grabbing the cylinder on a revolver. The trigger isn't going anywhere.

I was actually referring to the "instinct" of pressing your muzzle into the body (gut, chest, etc) of your assailant rather than them grabbing your firearm. So practicing with a firearm and knowing any limitations is paramount after the purchase.



On a side note, you do realize than an assailant with a knife standing 21 feet from you can close that distance and stab you before you can draw AND fire your weapon. Of course, God help him because of the rain of projectiles headed his way after he stabs me.

 

[Ponyboy]

On a side note, you do realize than an assailant with a knife standing 21 feet from you can close that distance and stab you before you can draw AND fire your weapon. Of course, God help him because of the rain of projectiles headed his way after he stabs me.

If I may be so bold (please realize this is meant as no offense): but according to the FBI, it takes an assailant 1.5 seconds to close from 20 feet. In that time, one can easily train to draw and fire their weapon. Matter of fact, I saw it this morning where one of the instructors did it in 1.3x seconds consistently.

 

[davidf]

If I may be so bold (please realize this is meant as no offense): but according to the FBI, it takes an assailant 1.5 seconds to close from 20 feet. In that time, one can easily train to draw and fire their weapon. Matter of fact, I saw it this morning where one of the instructors did it in 1.3x seconds consistently.

But in the real world, I'd bet theres not so many that are trained that well. I know way to many cops in various types of LE that have gotten relaxed in their job after many years.

 

[808NA1]

I was actually referring to the "instinct" of pressing your muzzle into the body (gut, chest, etc) of your assailant rather than them grabbing your firearm.

Ah, I understand.

Maybe you have more experience than me on that type of situation, but I still think it's not something easily accomplished. Most semi pistols have an average of what, 17 lb recoil spring? To me, that's a lot of pressure to overcome by pushing it into a somewhat soft object (gut, chest, etc). Also, most semi pistols have a full length guide rod that doesn't retract back with the slide. It's not like the slide will just go out of battery when you push the muzzle end into something. The guide rod stops it. Still possible but like I said, not something I feel that is easily accomplished.

Though, going back to your statement and what you were referring to, yes I will agree that by pushing the muzzle into something, vs. a semi, there is no way it's going to happen on a revolver.

 

[RJPKRP]

If I may be so bold (please realize this is meant as no offense): but according to the FBI, it takes an assailant 1.5 seconds to close from 20 feet. In that time, one can easily train to draw and fire their weapon. Matter of fact, I saw it this morning where one of the instructors did it in 1.3x seconds consistently.

No offense taken. Just relaying information received in my law enforcement training.

I meant to ask you when you posted your pics, your S&W M&P revolver, is it a Victory model? The serial numbers were preceded by a V (for Victory over the Axis in WWII).

 

[Ponyboy]

But in the real world, I'd bet theres not so many that are trained that well. I know way to many cops in various types of LE that have gotten relaxed in their job after many years.

You're absolutely correct. I've got stories untold of my instructors telling me the same exact thing. However, I train with normal people and they're able to meet that 1.5 second standard. Just takes proper training and regular practice.

Some of the instructor LEOs are absolutely disgusted at the state of their fellow officers/troopers handgun expertise.

I meant to ask you when you posted your pics, your S&W M&P revolver, is it a Victory model? The serial numbers were preceded by a V (for Victory over the Axis in WWII).

I checked and there's no V preceeding the serial number. That's a weapon that my grandfather (WWII vet) handed down to me.

 

[Vega$ NSX]

You're absolutely correct. I've got stories untold of my instructors telling me the same exact thing. However, I train with normal people and they're able to meet that 1.5 second standard. Just takes proper training and regular practice.

Agreed. Here's the other thing that people often forget too. Sure it takes 1.5 seconds to close 20'. Heck, you could have Usain Bolt and he could close it in less than 1 second. However, I'm not a static dummy just waiting have a shive burried in my neck. If someone had a weapon and I felt in danger of my life, I've practiced backing up very quickly while getting my gun and shooting accurately (need to be outdoors, won't let you do that at a range). So the reality is that the attacker would have to close more than 20' because I'm running away as he's closing. I bet I could add a good 8 feet if I had to, which would buy me the time to get my gun and aim. ALSO, I've practiced kicking (front push kick) while getting my weapon, so say he did close the 20' faster then I could draw my gun, we'll he'd still have to contend with my size 9 in his gut before he could get a cut in me and then I'd have bought myself enough time to draw. AND I've practiced falling backwards on back while drawing my gun and kicking my feet and shooting from my back position. Try attacking a guy on his back with his feet ready to kick you. Anybody who has watch UFC know it isn't easy. NOT TO MENTION, say a guy was able to twart all of my defensive tactics, close the gap and stab me with a knife, short of in my eye or in my heart, I'm pretty sure I could take a couple of stabs, and still be able bodied enough to get my gun and return fire. I'm sure I'd have my fair share of forearm defensive wounds but I'm pretty sure I'd have two in his chest and one in the head.

People also have to remember, a gun is no guarantee for safety. If someone just came up to you and stabbed you in the face, you'd have no chance of drawing your gun to defend yourself. There are only certain circumstances where a gun "may" save your life, but there are countless ones where having or not having a gun would make no difference at all. But you have to accept those circumstances no different that a guy could just turn his steering wheel in his car and run you over as you walk along the sidewalk or plow though you at a farmers market (true story). So for me when someone give me a hypothetical situation and says well what if someone charged you from 15' with a knife, you couldn't draw your gun in time, you'd be dead. I'd have to remind them that if I didn't have a gun I'd be dead too. In fact, I could have a pocket full of grenades, a mini gun, and a nuclear warhead strapped to my back and I'd still be dead. It's basically pointing out a scenario where there is nothing you would have been able to do regardless so it's a moot point.

 

[naaman]

Military and LE experience:

Whatever you go with, there are a few things you will want on your gun.

Night sights (these are bright inserts in the sights that allow you to see them in the dark.

A light rail to attach a flashlight for home defense.

A good conceal carry holster. Some prefer a thumb break. I don't. You will need to train drawing your pistol over and over and over again (do it empty, of course) and acquiring your target in one smooth motion.

If you're going to carry, BE RESPONSIBLE and LEARN TO SHOOT. Don't carry if you're not willing to spend hours and hours each month practicing.

When it comes to practice, point the empty weapon at a small target and pull the trigger over and over again until you can do it every time without the sights moving off target at all (no movement whatsoever is your goal).

 

[jonas1jp]

Just picked up another one. Springfield Armory XD(M) 9mm. Sorry about the quality - pic from the phone.

 

[MJK]

Anybody have good recommendations for a CCW?

I have a Ruger LCP, which is great for size but the trigger is horrid. I also have a Glock 19, which is great but a little too big for your normal AZ wardrobe. If size was no object, I would carry my 1911.

Sig 239 looks good on paper, as does a Kimber Ultra Carry II. What else should be on the 'to test' list?

 

[davidf]

Anybody have good recommendations for a CCW?

I have a Ruger LCP, which is great for size but the trigger is horrid. I also have a Glock 19, which is great but a little too big for your normal AZ wardrobe. If size was no object, I would carry my 1911.

Sig 239 looks good on paper, as does a Kimber Ultra Carry II. What else should be on the 'to test' list?

I carry this:
http://www.gun-review.com/reviews/ratingDisplay.php?reviewId=317&cat=1
Feels great and quite easy to conceal yet does'nt feel to small. I do have a 1911 45 but for carry/personal protection I feel that fire power is the key. It comes with 2 mags, 13 rd. and 16 rd. All for under $500.00.

 

[sca037]

Anybody have good recommendations for a CCW?

I have a Ruger LCP, which is great for size but the trigger is horrid. I also have a Glock 19, which is great but a little too big for your normal AZ wardrobe. If size was no object, I would carry my 1911.

Sig 239 looks good on paper, as does a Kimber Ultra Carry II. What else should be on the 'to test' list?

By all means try the Glock 23 (40 S&W).

While I know several people that are fans of the Springfield XD(M)'s, I think the G23 is the sweet spot of capacity / power in a compact carry-able package.
Rent one at a range and see if you don't agree, and BTW the factory night sights are more than worth the price (hint, hint).
If that still seems too big to conceal in an AZ Summer, I have first hand knowledge that the sub-compact G27 shoots just as well

Brian

 

[RJPKRP]

...I do have a 1911 45 but for carry/personal protection I feel that fire power is the key.....

Are you saying that 9mm is more firepower than a .45ACP? Or do you mean that you prefer capacity over caliber? You'll never run through 13 rounds in a self-defense situation. That being said, you should carry what you are comfortable with. For me.....I carry 5 rounds of .357mag most of the time I'm armed. That is more than enough for self-defense or to get myself "out of a situation".

Anybody have good recommendations for a CCW?

I have a Ruger LCP, which is great for size but the trigger is horrid. I also have a Glock 19, which is great but a little too big for your normal AZ wardrobe. If size was no object, I would carry my 1911.

Sig 239 looks good on paper, as does a Kimber Ultra Carry II. What else should be on the 'to test' list?

You need to get your hand on a bunch of different "carry weapons". I'll throw out a few that are nice quality, nice triggers, easy to conceal. The best thing you can do is wrap you hand around them and see what is most comfortable. The 239 and UCII are both nice weapons as are:

CZ 2075
Glock Sub-Compacts
HK P2000 SK
Beretta PX4 SC
M&P Compact

(I also like wheel guns)

 

[davidf]

Are you saying that 9mm is more firepower than a .45ACP? Or do you mean that you prefer capacity over caliber? You'll never run through 13 rounds in a self-defense situation. That being said, you should carry what you are comfortable with. For me.....I carry 5 rounds of .357mag most of the time I'm armed. That is more than enough for self-defense or to get myself "out of a situation".





You need to get your hand on a bunch of different "carry weapons". I'll throw out a few that are nice quality, nice triggers, easy to conceal. The best thing you can do is wrap you hand around them and see what is most comfortable. The 239 and UCII are both nice weapons as are:

CZ 2075
Glock Sub-Compacts
HK P2000 SK
Beretta PX4 SC
M&P Compact

(I also like wheel guns)

Well you do have a point.:redface: Absolutely the 45 has more stopping power, but since the finish is black/OD green I don't want to chance scratching it up while the XD is polymer.

 

[Cozmo]

Anybody have good recommendations for a CCW?

I have a Ruger LCP, which is great for size but the trigger is horrid. I also have a Glock 19, which is great but a little too big for your normal AZ wardrobe. If size was no object, I would carry my 1911.

Sig 239 looks good on paper, as does a Kimber Ultra Carry II. What else should be on the 'to test' list?

I have a Kel Tec PF-9 which has a few advantages and disadvantages. The great things about it is that it is tiny. It has a 7 round mag and they claim it is the smallest semi-auto 9mm. So it is light and very easy to conceal. It is small enough that I carry it with me whenever I'm not at work. It is also cheap, at only $300 new (if you can find one). I have a lasergrip on mine whch made me realize how bad I shake just holding it on a target.

The issues I have with it are: 1) It is double action only, so the trigger pull is really long. It takes some getting used to. 2) Being so small and light, it shoots very "snappy" and is difficult to aim compared to my XD 9mm. 3) The grip on it is not very friendly. Putting a couple boxes of ammo through it tears up my hands. It is great for actually being able to keep ahold of the gun in a situation where you'd need that, but it isn't something that you'll want to shoot thousands of rounds through recreationally (other than practicing with it of course).

All of that sounds really negative, but I'd buy it again if I could do it over.

The XD sub-compact is really nice too, but not very small. It just has a shorter grip and barrel, but it is still really thick.

 

[Vega$ NSX]

I have a Kel Tec PF-9 which has a few advantages and disadvantages.

Good single stack 9mm (one of only a few in that sub compact size). I almost got one but having had numerous difficulties with a friend's Kel Tec, I decided not to.

Good alternatives to this gun is a Kahr PM9 (though expensive) and the soon to be released Ruger LC9.

 

[RJPKRP]

...The great things about it is that it is tiny. It has a 7 round mag and they claim it is the smallest semi-auto 9mm...

Good single stack 9mm (one of only a few in that sub compact size)....

I also agree. Some folks like the slimness of a single stack for CC without printing.

The RUGER SR9 is a single stack compact.
Kel Tec PF9
Khar CW9
Taurus 709Slim
Walther PPS


Now, get in somewhere and see how they fit! If you have a chance to fire any of them, I highly recommend that too (see how these little guns feel "in action" to you).

 

[MJK]

Great suggestions, thanks.

I had not heard of half of the guns mentioned. A thin 9mm or .40 with a nice trigger and good feel seems like just the ticket. All things equal I would take a metal frame gun, but I am not set on it.

The ones that appeal to me after some more research are:

Walther PPS 6.3"L x 4.4"H x 1.04"W 9mm
Sig P290 5.5"L x 3.9"H x 1.1"W 9mm
Sig P239 SAS2 6.6"L x 5.1"H x 1.2"W 9mm, .40 or .357
Kimber UCII 6.8"L x 4.75"H x 1.3" .45ACP
HK p2000V3 7"L x 5"H x 1.34"W 9mm, .40 or .357
CZ 2075 RAMI 6.5"L x 4.7"H x 1.3"W 9mm or.40
Beretta Px4 6.2"L x 4.8"H x 1.4"W 9mm or.40

If none of these feel better than a subcompact glock, I guess that is my backup plan. I am particularly interested in the Walther PPS based on specs.

If anyone has anything to add on build quality or trigger feel, I would appreciate it

 

[RJPKRP]

You can also get the PPS in .40 too