New NSX Engine Revealed

Valkyrie Pilot said:
JD - I couldn't agree more. And speaking of torque, this thing is going to be a monster. From Digital Trends posted in August (posted in another Prime thread):

The V6 displaces 3.5 liters and has 2 turbochargers. It produces 450 horsepower and 450 pound-feet of torque, but it also gets a little help from 3 electric motors. 1 motor is attached to the car’s 7-speed dual-clutch automatic transmission, helping to drive the rear wheels. The other 2 drive 1 front wheel each.

Combined, the V6 and 3 electric motors produce 560 hp and 650 lb-ft.

If this article, which predicted the twin turbos, is right about the torque numbers, then it will have almost 200 ft/lbs more than a Nissan GTR and a Mclaren 12C and just 72 ft/lbs less than the $900K Mclaren P1! That is serious company.
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Those figures are very impressive but I can't think of a reason why they aren't attainable. 450/450 for a turbocharged version of a motor already good for ~350hp in finely tuned n/a application is reasonable; an extra 80-120hp from a total of 3 electric motors makes sense. As long as it makes 500/500 I think they'll have a very strong car. At that level and with a weight of <3200 lbs (feasible but I still don't know how they are going to do it) this thing is going to move. I don't think it'll beat a GTR 0-60 but it should be able to hang with it every where else. Plus who cares, nothing beats a GTR 0-60.
 
In fact, they like a challenge so much that they decided that the car's original configuration - a transverse engine layout with reworked Acura RLX ancillaries - simply wasn't going to do the job they and us expected the new NSX to do. So they switched to a longitudinal set-up, and the engine now sits lower in the chassis, benefiting thermal management, and allowing them to run a dry sump. Basically, it's better for overall packaging, and gives the platform greater flexibility in the future....The engine will most likely be a direct-injection, mid-mounted, twin-turbocharged 3.5-liter V6, with a wider V-angle than previous Honda units of that configuration. The chassis and body is a mix of aluminium, high tensile steel and composites, although there will be some carbon fibre components in there, too. Honda has just launched impressive all-new seven and eight-speed dual clutch gearboxes, and one or other of these will appear in the new NSX. There will be no manual transmission; despite the excellence of their 'boxes over the years, it was never even a consideration. Honda is targeting a kerb weight of around 3000lbs.......Power output remains a closely guarded secret for now, but if three electric motors and a new bi-turbo V6 add up to anything less than 500bhp, we'll be disappointed. (The new RLX sport hybrid has a 310bhp 3.5-litre V6, augmented by two 27kW electric motors and one 35kW motor. So add two turbos, beef up the motors, and do the math.)

Besides, the electric motors on the NSX do a fascinating job. Honda uses them in its SH-AWD system, effectively a form of torque vectoring that's newly applied to the Acura RLX. On that car, the motors act on the rear wheels, and enable independent control of the torque flow to the wheels on either side.

In the new NSX, the motors will tailor the car's handling by using regenerative braking to retard the inside front wheel and accelerate the outside one during cornering. RLX on a twisty little circuit, and the effect it has on the car's behavior is amazing. Enter a corner too fast, with the power still applied, and the system adjusts the car's line so that you maintain the optimum trajectory. Throttle off abruptly, and the back end gets entertainingly mobile before reining itself in without the need for any major driver input, and on you go. Obviously, it has a different remit on the NSX, but it's undoubtedly a trick bit of hardware. Klaus describes it like this.

‘Don't think of the car as front or rear-wheel drive, think of it as active-wheel drive. In fact, it's proactive. Other systems can only deal with two phases, but this is a three-phase set-up and works during acceleration, braking, and cornering. The car should do what the driver wants. Its responses should always be in phase. If the hybrid technology makes the driver even more central to the process, that's going to work for the purist, right? It's about fun that's not based on sweat.'

Klaus and his team are also working hard to ensure that the new NSX, like the old one, is user-friendly. ‘The NSX had humps in the front wings,' he says, ‘which helped you place it on the road more accurately. And you could see out of it properly. It's important to me that the new one is as accessible as possible. We have this idea of the "human support cockpit". It starts with visibility, and optimizing the driving position. I want the controls to have the right sensitivity, and for the paddle shifters to feel good. But it also means that the center console won't be made of a hard material. Some of the NSX's rivals will actually bruise your knees during hard cornering. That I don't get.'

Honda has invested $72,652,500~ in a new Performance Manufacturing Centre in Marysville, Ohio, where production on the car will start in 2015. Suspicions that the NSX's apparent US-centric focus will stunt its dynamism draw a wry smile from Klaus. ‘Actually, I understand and respect people who have those concerns. The car's power-train was developed in Japan, and its styling made feasible in our LA studio. And remember that the original NSX was Honda's first global car. We've taken the best people in the company to do this car, and we're an extremely tightly focused unit. We're also using its development to attract new suppliers. It's driving everyone forward.'
 
bats why does your whole text link to facebook login?
 
Valkyrie Pilot said:
Combined, the V6 and 3 electric motors produce 560 hp and 650 lb-ft...
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I don't think that all the power/torque adds up like that in terms of it being "1+2+3=6."

The rear electric-motor presumably addresses boost-lag, and the front electric-motors likely kick'in for handling-assist. Not so sure that if in WOT would the (3) electric-motors & conventional-engine all peak at the same time.
 
Osiris_x11 said:
I don't think that all the power/torque adds up like that in terms of it being "1+2+3=6."

The rear electric-motor presumably addresses boost-lag, and the front electric-motors likely kick'in for handling-assist. Not so sure that if in WOT would the (3) electric-motors & conventional-engine all peak at the same time.
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Ted keeps on talking about driving experience rather than numbers, perhaps this is part of what he was getting at? Electric motors offer both immediate power and the ability to have a custom response curve to augment the power band which would could create a car that's incredibly responsive and seems fast despite having less power (going off the premise that electric hp > 1 gasoline hp)? Tesla demonstrates this well, seems like we're going to need to rethink how we evaluate power figures?
 
And in essence, the electric assist allows you to regain what emissions has taken away over the years.

It is the way of the future, no doubt.

Still, I want the car they should of built 10 years ago first: Light, exceptionally beautiful with a rip snorting NA motor.

S
 
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NetViper said:
If twin turbos and a hybrid is good enough for the mclaren p1, it's good enough for me. ;)
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Exactly!

ky650 said:
Electric motors offer both immediate power and the ability to have a custom response curve to augment the power band which would could create a car that's incredibly responsive and seems fast despite having less power (going off the premise that electric hp > 1 gasoline hp)? Tesla demonstrates this well, seems like we're going to need to rethink how we evaluate power figures?
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Test drove a Model S a couple weeks ago. Nice car. Among other things I like the way they incorporate regenerative braking into the driving experience when you lift off the accelerator - feels like lifting off at higher RPMs on a high-compression engine. Then brakes are just brakes. Electric motors make it deceptively fast in that one of the major gauges we humans have developed for speed/acceleration (sound of engine revving) does not exist. Also no shift points (something a DTC will somewhat mask).

The note on electric/gas horsepower being different may be valid in a couple different ways: The torque from electric is flat whereas torque from gas is not flat. Also, in some configurations the drive-train losses are much less (wheel horsepower more like rated horsepower) - as I expect will be the case with the NSXv2's front wheels where motors directly drive the wheels without going through a gearbox / differential / transfer case.
 
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Electric motor in tranny = electronic diff that controls the amount of slip from the rear wheels on corner entry and exit.

Big friggin' woot.
 
Spooler said:
Question for advanced gearheads,

Would not this be the solution to damaging heat generated by exhaust driven Turbo's ?

If so, were gonna need more motors lol.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_turbocharger
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Very interesting. I wonder if this is the new technology they promised.

And the Regenerative suspension shocks that Tantheman references are also very cool (Google it if you aren't familiar). So many ways to scavenge energy and turn it into speed when you have electric motor driven wheels!

It seems the hybrid revolution is spawning a lot of new technologies!
 
scammy said:
in this article it mentions maybe a 3.7 http://www.edmunds.com/auto-shows/to...cat=affiliates has anyone heard definitely what it is yet? or are we all still guessing
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According to the Motor Trend article, the engineers at the presentation stated that the engine will be no larger than 3.5L. So it seems unlikely to be a 3.7, although you never know until the car comes out. I also noticed that they updated that article. Note that the targeted weight is 3200 lbs, not 2200. So that was clearly a typo.
 
Olyar15 said:
According to the Motor Trend article, the engineers at the presentation stated that the engine will be no larger than 3.5L. So it seems unlikely to be a 3.7, although you never know until the car comes out. I also noticed that they updated that article. Note that the targeted weight is 3200 lbs, not 2200. So that was clearly a typo.
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Easy to understand, they will begin with the 3,5 L then upgrade to a 3,7 L 6 or 7 years later ... :smile:
 
So with all this 'new' technology and knowing there are limited Techs out there who really know how to fix the current NSX's, will Honda/Acura send the techs to schools so they know how to fix/maint the new version? Hard enough finding a good tech (although I have one) for most of us let alone bring in new technology and having to take it to a dealer who has no specialized tech. Sounding and looking better and better and just wonder if I need to build another garage..........hmmm. I better get talking to TK about that test drive option :rolleyes:
 
effer said:
Easy to understand, they will begin with the 3,5 L then upgrade to a 3,7 L 6 or 7 years later ... :smile:
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Probably not. Likely they decided bore spacing on 3.7 is not within Honda acceptable safety margin for turbo, so they went 3.5 max. If so, this means they will revise turbos, tuning, etc. instead just like GT-R to bump performance over the years.
 
I remember reading some article that the prototype was actually 3.0. I really think Honda will keep the displace low or balanced, especially since they are going twin turbo now. Anything larger than a 3.5 is quite large for a V6.
 
Honcho said:
Probably not. Likely they decided bore spacing on 3.7 is not within Honda acceptable safety margin for turbo, so they went 3.5 max. If so, this means they will revise turbos, tuning, etc. instead just like GT-R to bump performance over the years.
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Agree with Honcho
Much cheaper and easier to increase boost than to have new bore, stroke, pistons, crankshaft etc.
 
I was kidding, just to make a little wink to the 3,0 liters and 3,2 liters NSX!

Honda seems determined to not repeat mistakes of the past.

I believe they will introduce a turbo engine with remarkable power output. More than 170 hp/L IMVHO.
 

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