New NSX Engine Revealed

I'm not saying I'd like to make the car better. Like the gtr, United very fast and very capable from the factory. I just enjoy making changes, personalizing and spending money on components that Honda bean counters wouldn't sign off on. Where the gtr is concerned, I get to choose from aftermarket turbos with much more exotic materials that are therefore much more expensive. I've no doubt Honda engineers would install them if allowed but it would make the car much more expensive in the first place. Likewise the manifold I'd like to have made and analysed with computational fluid dynamics through an number of iterative changes to make it flow much better. It then had top be cast and individually machined. That prices makes them cost $3000 a set. A price Honda couldn't pay, but I would.

I'm not planning to ruin the car, but I do like to make it my own by adding choice modifications outside the realms of Honda's design brief, cost,mpg and emissions regulations.
 
I just enjoy making changes, personalizing and spending money on components that Honda bean counters wouldn't sign off on. I've no doubt Honda engineers would install them if allowed but it would make the car much more expensive in the first place. That prices makes them cost $3000 a set. A price Honda couldn't pay, but I would. I'm not planning to ruin the car, but I do like to make it my own by adding choice modifications outside the realms of Honda's design brief, cost,mpg and emissions regulations.

I think it's very simplistic to say that engineers/designers have these great features they want to include in a car but there's a group of "bean counters" in a dark room saying "no it costs too much, use a cheaper/inferior part."

Cars are positioned in the marketplace against competitors in that market segment. Price and the performance offered at that price point determine the value.

If a manufacturer like Honda decides to position the NSX against similarly performing Porsches or an Audi R8 then the cost to Honda of that NSX has to be at a level that allows them to profit at an MSRP in line with those competitors.
It's nothing to do with an internal debate between stern cost accountants putting the kibosh on the certain turbocharger that a keen young engineer wants to install on the engine. All the components need to add up to a certain cost point.

Honda could build an NSX that could run with anything on the road but if the price point was at P1 levels few would buy.

I understand wanting to modify a car with a certain part to "make it your own". Bolt on body parts, carbon fiber trim, different wheels is a big business.

I think what's different in the new multi power source cars is the balance between the electric power output and the gasoline power output will be integrated into the control system.
The minute you change, say, boost to yield a higher max power output, you are changing the torque curve of part of the drivetrain. At this point you have no idea of what effect that will have on the electric output and it's effect on the total output of the driveline.
Raising peak hp at a higher rpm in the gasoline engine could result in lower torque in the midrange and lower overall performance despite a dyno saying peak power is up.

Adding a high priced turbo and boost to a single power source car is much like adding a hotter cam to an old muscle car engine. Easy to do with good results.
I guess we'll see who is going to step up and modify the drivelines of a P1 or a 918 but I'll bet it's not as simple as you think.
 
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I think it's very simplistic to say that engineers/designers have these great features they want to include in a car but there's a group of "bean counters" in a dark room saying "no it costs too much, use a cheaper/inferior part."

Cars are positioned in the marketplace against competitors in that market segment. Price and the performance offered at that price point determine the value.

If a manufacturer like Honda decides to position the NSX against similarly performing Porsches or an Audi R8 then the cost to Honda of that NSX has to be at a level that allows them to profit at an MSRP in line with those competitors.
It's nothing to do with an internal debate between stern cost accountants putting the kibosh on the certain turbocharger that a keen young engineer wants to install on the engine. All the components need to add up to a certain cost point.

Honda could build an NSX that could run with anything on the road but if the price point was at P1 levels few would buy.

I understand wanting to modify a car with a certain part to "make it your own". Bolt on body parts, carbon fiber trim, different wheels is a big business.

I think what's different in the new multi power source cars is the balance between the electric power output and the gasoline power output will be integrated into the control system.
The minute you change, say, boost to yield a higher max power output, you are changing the torque curve of part of the drivetrain. At this point you have no idea of what effect that will have on the electric output and it's effect on the total output of the driveline.
Raising peak hp at a higher rpm in the gasoline engine could result in lower torque in the midrange and lower overall performance despite a dyno saying peak power is up.

Adding a high priced turbo and boost to a single power source car is much like adding a hotter cam to an old muscle car engine. Easy to do with good results.
I guess we'll see who is going to step up and modify the drivelines of a P1 or a 918 but I'll bet it's not as simple as you think.

I totally agree with almost everything you said except for a few points.

First of all I work in the motor industry for one of the big Detroit companies as a patent attorney and am familiar with the bean counter concept. While you may think it doesn't happen the way I suggest, in my experience, it does.

Second, if you look at what I stated with regard to the GT-R, the performance achieved by the tuning company I know produced slightly better low down torque than stock, if required it can be pulled down to produce an identical torque curve, the difference is, where the stock curve tails off, the modified one keeps on climbing up to much higher heights, producing 200lbft more (could be 400 more were it not for the stock internals) and 300bhp more. Not different delivery, identica if desired, just more.

I do agree that the integration of the drive motors will be with a specific goal in mind, and also that control of the total output torque will probably be integral to the ecu. It will definitely be more difficult to work out how to tune it properly, and it will definitely be easily possible to mess it up. All I'm saying is that the GT-R achievements have the capacity to mimic the standard output up to a point and then continue to deliver far beyond.

If the electric drive can accommodate the inadequacies of the stock low down delivery, they can continue to do the exact same thing on a modified engine potentially without messing with the balance. I'm just hoping that it will be possible to raise the ceiling enormously without compromising the job Honda will have done at the bottom. Typically massive power outputs come at the expense of the bottom end, and employing those mods WOULD upset the balance you and others have mentioned. The key point here is that the bottom end can be identical to stock.
 
I totally agree with almost everything you said except for a few points.

First of all I work in the motor industry for one of the big Detroit companies as a patent attorney and am familiar with the bean counter concept. While you may think it doesn't happen the way I suggest, in my experience, it does.

Second, if you look at what I stated with regard to the GT-R, the performance achieved by the tuning company I know produced slightly better low down torque than stock, if required it can be pulled down to produce an identical torque curve, the difference is, where the stock curve tails off, the modified one keeps on climbing up to much higher heights, producing 200lbft more (could be 400 more were it not for the stock internals) and 300bhp more. Not different delivery, identica if desired, just more.

I do agree that the integration of the drive motors will be with a specific goal in mind, and also that control of the total output torque will probably be integral to the ecu. It will definitely be more difficult to work out how to tune it properly, and it will definitely be easily possible to mess it up. All I'm saying is that the GT-R achievements have the capacity to mimic the standard output up to a point and then continue to deliver far beyond.

If the electric drive can accommodate the inadequacies of the stock low down delivery, they can continue to do the exact same thing on a modified engine potentially without messing with the balance. I'm just hoping that it will be possible to raise the ceiling enormously without compromising the job Honda will have done at the bottom. Typically massive power outputs come at the expense of the bottom end, and employing those mods WOULD upset the balance you and others have mentioned. The key point here is that the bottom end can be identical to stock.

Most interesting to learn about management practices in Detroit. I would not have believed that a staff accountant could overrule a line operating manager. However it may explain however some of the reasons for mediocre products and the demise of two of the companies.

I've learned recently of some NSX's exceeding the 250 k mile mark with stock or near stock engines. I'm sure the reliabilty/longetivity which is a Honda trademark will be built into the new NSX and that could entail compromises on total performance. I'm sure at some point (second/third owners?) the aftermarket mods will start much as we have today.

Also interesting is the dealers who will be selling NSX/RLX hybrids need to invest about $75K in equipment to handle the maintenance and servicing of these new drivelines.
Wouldn't be surprised if touching the driveline would void whatever warranty comes with the car.
You may be the first new NSX owner to lose your warranty as your tuner modifies the NSX system.
 
Warranties don't bother me, but I don't want to change things for the sake of it. I'll wait to see what the stock performance is like first.

Initially I just want to see if they can hack the ecu. Luckily I've got probably the best ecu hacking company in the world on my doorstep.
 
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Well good luck on the hack. I'll be leaving mine stock.

I'm sure Honda has a long term plan to keep upping the power and making special editions like type-r's etc.

After spending millions on proprietary software I wonder what Honda's view would be about someone hacking into their stuff and say selling the system to aftermarket tuners (or competitors)?
If the aftermarket came out with an improved system just before Honda released a higher hp version Honda might get testy.
Wouldn't be surprised if the Honda system had sophisticated security.

Time will tell but I hope your hacker friend doesn't roast the ECU as Honda might not decide to sell you another :confused:
 
There's nothing new about hacking ecus. The hacking friend isn't a person, it's a multinational company who are very respected amongst the marques they tune. They also provide oem solutions for a lot of chinese manufacturers who don't have the budget to create bespoke solutions.

They don't exactly come up with improved systems, they just enable the aftermarket to locate features they may be turned off in the stock ecu, they also allow the stock maps to be adjusted and so tables can be adapted for different modifications.

As for security, if you happened to read when the GT-R came out, Nissan wanted to make the GT-R untunable. They created a black box to record all parameters coming from the ecu, they were certain the ecu couldn't be hacked.

It took less than two days.

Good point about the ecu though! Maybe I'll let someone else take the risk. I suspect one of the big US tuners will be happy to send them over a car long before I can get my UK hands on one anyway.
 
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Well I'm sure once the new NSX is here we'll be reading lots about making mods to the control systems.
Should be interesting to see how it all comes out.

And speaking of how it all comes out, I wonder when deliveries will start?
 
The RLX engine was quickly dismissed as non-viable. The engine for the new NSX was developed from the ground up as soon as they realized this. Which is to say, late in the game all things considered. At some point they decided not to half ass it.
 
The RLX engine was quickly dismissed as non-viable. The engine for the new NSX was developed from the ground up as soon as they realized this. Which is to say, late in the game all things considered. At some point they decided not to half ass it.

I honestly don't think they ever considered the thought using the J engine. It was more rumors and speculation with any actually sources.
 
juice has inside sources....ssshhhh don't tell anyone...our little secret.
 
A good friend of mine has seen the new engine but won't tell me anything about it due to confidentiality. He has spent many hours at marysville for his job. I've tried to get info out of him, no luck lol
 
It's a V6, twin turbo, has an electric motor attached to it and the transmission. But keep it a secret. ;)
 
Usually mid january, right (about 12-25th of Jan)? If i remember right. Google will help if u need more accurate info...
Chicago show Feb.
 
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"While the overall style of the cars are quite similar, the details differ quite a bit. Whereas the i8 uses a turbocharged, three-cylinder engine, the NSX will use a twin-turbo, 3.5 liter V6. Both use electric motors to make the cars AWD, using a combination of one electric motor to aid the gas engine and more motors to power the front wheels. However, the i8 only uses one electric motor up front for both wheels, whereas the NSX uses one for each wheel. The i8 uses a standard 6-Speed automatic but the NSX uses an 8-Speed, dual-clutch auto."

http://www.bmwblog.com/2015/01/04/acura-nsx-bmw-i8-competitor/
 
"While the overall style of the cars are quite similar, the details differ quite a bit. Whereas the i8 uses a turbocharged, three-cylinder engine, the NSX will use a twin-turbo, 3.5 liter V6. Both use electric motors to make the cars AWD, using a combination of one electric motor to aid the gas engine and more motors to power the front wheels. However, the i8 only uses one electric motor up front for both wheels, whereas the NSX uses one for each wheel. The i8 uses a standard 6-Speed automatic but the NSX uses an 8-Speed, dual-clutch auto."

http://www.bmwblog.com/2015/01/04/acura-nsx-bmw-i8-competitor/

This is a very strong statement to think of all around. It speaks to many things other than the obvious that it basically has double of everything of the i8; cylinders, turbos and batteries. The i8 is a very good car and also extremely surprising, so while there are no specific numbers on performance no one has tried to say that the power is double that of the i8 (would make the nsx 700ish), so the double everything will hopefully end up equating to the reliability we all enjoy. But going to back to performance, given that this car should weigh not much more than the i8, and thinking in terms of all the "redundant" power, i think i've underestimated what type of monster this will be, godzillas you've been warned..
 
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