Eric5273 said:
Can you give me an clear but hypothetical example of what kind of evidence would prove this? I wish to know what would convince you. Then I can do my best to provide this.
Let's start with what I've already posted. I know a lot about aviation, and there is no evidence to indicate any conspiracy beyond or different to Al-Qaeda. Your 9/11 theory falls apart aftewr that. It doesn't matter who/what/where/when/or why, if you can't handle the HOW then the rest is irrelevant. So, here we go again......
In the hypothetical context that someone flew three jets into major U.S. landmarks, and crashed another one into a field in Pennsylvania-
(1) show me how NORAD (and NEADS in particular) deliberately let the hijacked jets hit their targets, and you need to also show me how the Andrews F-16s or the Langley F-15s could have done anything about it.
(2) Please be sure, like I've already said, to show me:
-(a) the identification criteria on the morning of 9/11 with regards to clearing scrambled jets to shoot down domestic airliners,
-(b) the type of identification required by the fighters before they could shoot,
-(c) the type of ordnance that would be used and it's range,
-(d) how much fuel it would have taken for our jets to go from point A to point B at their maximum forward airspeed.
(3) Then you can tell me how many aircraft were operating in the northeastern sector that NEADS was responsible for, and how many of these weren't "squawking" with their transponders just like the hijacked airliners were and how that may have affected the whole scenario.
You don't solve a crime by exploring who ISN'T responsible. My grandmother isn't responsible either......would you like to hear proof? You solve a crime by looking at the evidence and seeing where it leads.
You solve a crime by using the process of elimination to narrow down your choice of suspects. Evidence is what gives you an initial direction. So, you are at least partially wrong. For the record, unless your grandmother is an Islamic fundamentalist and trained in Afghanistan, I wouldn't consider her a suspect, either.
So far I have heard no evidence given by the government to support their claim that Osama bin Laden and Al-Queda are behind the attacks. They claim 19 arab hijackers were on these planes, but they have given no evidence as to how they know this. None of these 19 names are on the original flight manifests which were released by the airlines the afternoon of 9/11/01 (and published on CNN's website that same day), and several of these 19 arabs have turned up alive in other countries.
Keep in mind, that the manifests are often innacurate, because (among other things) they don't show last-minute ticket purchases. If you really think there is a grand conspiracy afoot, don't you think it would be a snap for "them" to forge these documents as well? And you mean to tell me that the hijackers didn't use their real names when they carried out this crime? They wouldn't do that, now would they?
And, finally, I'll ask you again......if it wasn't these 18 hijackers that flew these jets into the WTC and Pentagon, then WHO specifically took over four airliners and flew them? Who did the passengers of Flight 93 do battle with before the plane crashed into a field? Robots? Who else other than Muslim extremists are willing to "martyr" themselves in this situation? I don't know of any people who are so pro-Big Oil that they're going to commit suicide for the betterment of multinational corporations, do you? Have you thought these little details out? Because, when it boils down to it, these little details are the thread that either holds your theory together or makes it fall apart.
In answer to this, the FBI has said some of the hijackers may have used fake ID's and that is where the confusion is. Well, if this is the case, then how can they be certain all the hijackers didn't use fake ID's? In a rather well-organized operation such as this, I would think if one used fake ID then they all did.
Apparently, at least a few of the hijackers didn't even know that they were on a suicide mission until the very end. I don't call this operation very organized at all, just a very lucky breach of our security. The USA thwarts terrorist activity on a much more regular basis than you would probably know. We can't stop them all, and we aren't perfect. To infer that people in positions of power would infer that they are in control of everything, and ten minutes in any room of the Capitol building or the Pentagon will immediately convince you otherwise.
The files that the 9/11 Commission requested from the Justice Dept. has to do with this proof, and I think the reason the Justice Dept. has ignored the requests is because no such files exist, i.e. there is no evidence. But I cannot prove this. Remember that the commission has sopena power and all members have top-clearance to classified materials, so stating that the documents are classified is not a valid excuse. Then what is the Justice Dept. worried about? Why have they repeatedly ignored the requests?
After 9/11, there were enough leaks to prompt George Bush to bar some congressmen from daily intelligence briefings. This has been an ongoing problem since then, and there would probably be plenty of reasons not to release some of this information. Have you ever had access to classified material?
No wonder you don't know who Kucinich is. Do you have any affilitaion with the Workers World Party?
You are correct that i don't know much about aviation. The aviation stuff is not even a major part of why I think what I think about 9/11.
Well, it should be, because I've just torn a lot of your best "HOW" evidence to shreds.
The stuff going on in Afghanistan and Pakistan related to the Taliban and Al-Queda is much more interesting and that is what convinced me. The other stuff is just trying to explain how they pulled off the actual operation.
Like I said, the devil is in the details. You ca't go from A to Z and skip every other letter.
Since you have read many of forums which have discussed this, I will just list some points and I'll assume you are familiar with them. If you are not familiar with the details of any of these points, then ask me to elaborate and I will.
It would take me much more time and patience than I have to address all of these bullets, and I really do not like coming to this forum and spending the majority of my time dicsussing non-NSX related material. I'm a member of plenty of other message boards dedicated to those ends. I am only involved in this debate because it is my thread, and you hijacked it. If you had created your own thread, I could have ignored it. I get an e-mail every time someone replies to this thread, and I'd really rather spend my day doing something other than combatting your misinformation that has little to do with what we are now discussing. And, on another level, you aren't going to get me off-track until you address my points which I brought up first.
Just because you read it on the internet doesn't mean it's true!