Power Windows Stopped Working

[jcabral]

02 NSX, 18k miles.... Power windows just stopped working both windows.

Tested so far:

All fuses in the cabin, hood and engine compartment all Work. Swapped power windows relay with window Headlamp Relay (Same) and HeadLamp worked just fine with relay.

Took door panel off and I have continuity on Master Switch and window buttons.

Yet they dont work ? Could it be a bad ground!! Before I bought it, car has had some aftermarket wiring done like the alarm. Should I test the Control Unit on drivers door ? Not sure where to go next...

Thanks!

 

[NSX2398]

If I recall correctly, I had a similar problem one day and it turned out that I had accidentally bumped the main switch to off. I'm talking about the switch just above the window control buttons on the drivers door. Mine says "main" on it and it needs to be in the "on" position to the left.

 

[jcabral]

It's on and I also took the door panel off and tested the switch, it had continuity.

 

[pgilliam1]

So, you have continuity but do you have power? If both windows quit at the same time, it has to be something they have in common. Either the control unit, power to the control unit or a relay. I would unplug, then tightly replug all common connectors. Seems like there was a switch of some kind inside the glove box (my mind just doesn't serve me as well since I slipped past 55 :redface.

Remember to post your resolution to this problem.

 

[jcabral]

Switch in glove box is to lock truck ...valet...

I took the door panel off again and have it apart. Trying to determine what to test. Need some kind of diagram???? with the Ignition to ACCII doesnt seem to have power coming for either harness the feed control unit? Cant tell for certain.

 

[jcabral]

I was able to download service manual http://www.mediafire.com/?qyzztnamtxy thanks NSXprime, great site....

Where are G401, G402, G403, G401 located so I can verify ground???

Thanks...

 

[jcabral]

Stumped...

I tested everything up to the 4th and last item on the troubleshooting guide (See Attached) . Its either a grounding issue or something with the key-off timer circuit. The integrated control unit is in a very tight spot and that is also where my alarm wiring is. Its not something I want to mess with given the location.

I am thinking the aftermarket work could be the cultprit for some reason....

May have to bring it to a professional... If anyone can help please let me know. Thanks.

 

[comtec]

Hello,
You should use the 1991 manual because it contain more information.

(section)-(page)
23-31 is the floor wire harness circuit drawing
23-55 is the main relay box circuit drawing
23-261 is the power window section with tests and the power window circuit diagram


23-264 shows you how to test the power window control unit in the driver door.

23-164 shows you how to test the key off timer circuit.


G401, G402 and G403 are grounds in the wire harnesses. G401 is at the left kick panel, G402 is at the right kick panel and G403 is at the left rear bulk head. The circuit drawings for the wire harnesses show details of these.


Mike

 

[jcabral]

The Service Manual I downloaded for 1991-1996 does not contain those pages. The URL I was using was http://www.mediafire.com/?hwgzjmeywf0 from the wiki.

Went back and re-read your email found this one just 1991 http://hondatech.info/downloads/Auto/Manuals/NSX/ which does contain those pages.

Thank you will take a look at those ground connections.:smile:

 

[comtec]

I would start with the

23-264 test the power window control unit
23-164 test the key off timer circuit.

 

[x-drifter]

I have a simular problem but just the passenger window was stuck in the down position on my 1991. Both the master and the passenger switch will not bring up the window so I checked the fuses under the hood and they are not blown. I'm wondering if its the power window relay that sits right next to the two fuses in the box because both switches cannot bring up the window. I had to take the passenger door panel off, disconnect the harness to the motor and jump actuate it directly with a battery from my cordless drill to get it up for security reasons. I'm starting to REALLY not enjoy this car anymore. I hope you get your problem fixed as prime is usually the best resource to find help, good luck and keep the post coming cause I'm sure we are not the only ones.

 

[comtec]

I have a simular problem but just the passenger window was stuck in the down position on my 1991. Both the master and the passenger switch will not bring up the window so I checked the fuses under the hood and they are not blown. I'm wondering if its the power window relay that sits right next to the two fuses in the box because both switches cannot bring up the window. I had to take the passenger door panel off, disconnect the harness to the motor and jump actuate it directly with a battery from my cordless drill to get it up for security reasons. I'm starting to REALLY not enjoy this car anymore. I hope you get your problem fixed as prime is usually the best resource to find help, good luck and keep the post coming cause I'm sure we are not the only ones.

Have you tried the switch tests 23-265 and 23-266? Since it's the passenger window it could be either the driver side or the passenger side switches. Also, with the key in the on position check for battery voltage on the Blue/Black wire going into either door switch.

 

[x-drifter]

Have you tried the switch tests 23-265 and 23-266? Since it's the passenger window it could be either the driver side or the passenger side switches. Also, with the key in the on position check for battery voltage on the Blue/Black wire going into either door switch.

No Sir, I haven't done any continuity checks like the manual calls for yet, just moved and I don't have all my tools at my new residence. I was hoping to eliminate the obvious with the help of the prime members experience had someone run into this problem before. I thank you for posting your ideas as any help is much appreciated. One of the test calls for removing the power window relay to check continuity there but I must ask how do you remove the relay without breaking it? It looks like there are 2 tabs that lock it down but one is blocked by the tail light relay which sits right up against it?
I've also read where some members suggested to take apart the driver window switch, sand down the contacts, re grease, then reinstall. Are they talking about the contacts that the wires from the harness connects to the switch ( wire side has female connectors, switch side has the male tabs sticking out, 4 ea. for passenger switch, and 5 ea. with one not being used on the driver switch), or do they mean take apart the switch itself and clean where it toggles back and forth? Thank you again for your comments, your help is greatly appreciated.

 

[jcabral]

Tested power windows control unit and it works...

Will test 23-164 test the key off timer circuit next that is the only thing not tested from the recommended test on diag page in manual. Need to find a block of time to work on car again.

Thanks for your help.

 

[Kitaka]

One of the test procedures requires you power the system directly from an unswitched power source (hot wire it) to see if the motors work (or you could test the voltage at the motor connections once you get your testing equipment)

 

[jcabral]

I have a simular problem but just the passenger window was stuck in the down position on my 1991. Both the master and the passenger switch will not bring up the window so I checked the fuses under the hood and they are not blown. I'm wondering if its the power window relay that sits right next to the two fuses in the box because both switches cannot bring up the window. I had to take the passenger door panel off, disconnect the harness to the motor and jump actuate it directly with a battery from my cordless drill to get it up for security reasons. I'm starting to REALLY not enjoy this car anymore. I hope you get your problem fixed as prime is usually the best resource to find help, good luck and keep the post coming cause I'm sure we are not the only ones.

The relay is an easy test without a meter, simply grab another relay like the one for the headlamps that is the SAME, in my 02 the headlamp one is the same so is the amplifer one.

If its a bad relay it will work, if not the problem will remain. Other tests will require a meter, I would start by testing the master switch since the drivers window works. This switch is to stop the passenger from using the window switch on that passenger door.

If thats good test the passenger switch using a meter and the switch test guide located in the service manual.

 

[jcabral]

BAD -- key off timer circuit. No power out of control unit for windows. If bypassed it works. So the question is what will cost be to replace the unit $$$.

Wondering why it went bad to begin with....I guess installing a relay to get it working is a temporary solution. I will lose the 10 minute shut car off and still roll down windows delay but other than that all will work.

Thoughts or commments??

 

[comtec]

What tests failed on the key off timer circuit?

 

[jcabral]

Testing this part I was not comfortable with given the location and other NON-factory wiring in the same spot. So I am not certain what exact test failed on the 23-164 I should ask. I dropped it off to auto electric expert today and that is what he told me was the result of his testing. No POWER out of the control unit. Tested ground okay. He bypassed the control unit and it worked.

His options are relay or replace unit ? Estimated $ 400 cost for new unit?

I did find this online:
http://www.acuraoemparts.com/delray...-SL0-A02&d=ACURA_NSX_INTEGRATED_CONTROL_UNIT#

 

[jcabral]

For reference these are the tests in question ? Nothing about No Power ?

 

[comtec]

Ok, then i don't know how he tested. There are two tests for voltage that are done to the pins where the control unit was removed from (the jack) and the green/blue and green/red wires need to be tested on the harness connector for ground at B2 and B3.

The two voltage tests A9 and A5 are not exclusive to the power windows so if they failed you should have other problems. A5 is the same fuse as the backup lights, turn signal lights and the fuel pump to name a few. A9 is the same fuse as the footwell light and courtesy light. If you don't have a problem with any of these then you should be getting power at those two locations.


I would double check the green/blue and green/red wires on the harness connector for ground at B2 and B3 with the doors open. These wires come from the door switches and sometimes people connect an aftermarket alarm to them. They could have damaged the wires. You should be able to remove the power window relay and check for voltage from the control unit on the gray/black wire to see if it's working.

Mike

 

[shawn110975]

I had the same issue with my alarm.

the Alarm was an Alpine and it had an extra box that plugged into the main alpine brain that they had wired the windows to this extra option box to remote roll windows down. they used speaker wire for this LOL

well after the alarm shorted out my main relay, and ign switch

when the NSX mech showed me the aftermarket alpine window box

it was corroded and looked burned.

I would Rip out everything that is not OEM and start fresh.

let us know the outcome

I say 100% after market alarm related.

 

[jcabral]

Ok, then i don't know how he tested. There are two tests for voltage that are done to the pins where the control unit was removed from (the jack) and the green/blue and green/red wires need to be tested on the harness connector for ground at B2 and B3.

The two voltage tests A9 and A5 are not exclusive to the power windows so if they failed you should have other problems. A5 is the same fuse as the backup lights, turn signal lights and the fuel pump to name a few. A9 is the same fuse as the footwell light and courtesy light. If you don't have a problem with any of these then you should be getting power at those two locations.


I would double check the green/blue and green/red wires on the harness connector for ground at B2 and B3 with the doors open. These wires come from the door switches and sometimes people connect an aftermarket alarm to them. They could have damaged the wires. You should be able to remove the power window relay and check for voltage from the control unit on the gray/black wire to see if it's working.

Mike

What your saying makes perfect sense, Nice explanation.

I sent him an email to review your comments. He did say he had some more tests to run, I do trust this person completely. He is the guy the dealers and mechanics send there high end cars to be diagnosed and fixed.

Eagerly awaiting the results, will share as soon as I hear back. Thanks for your help.

 

[comtec]

Your welcome, glad to help.

The procedure is a little vague so i just want to make sure the control unit is bad before you have to go through the expense of replacing it.

The picture on 23-160 is good for reference. The bottom left circled detail is where the power is checked and the circled detail on the bottom right is where the door switches would be checked.

I don't have any doubts about your mechanic. As long as you trust him, that's all that matters. Electrical and electronic problems can at times be very hard to diagnose.

 

[Turbophein]

What was the conclusion to this problem?