Spacers! Safe or Not?

[nxpham]

Hi NSX Xperts,

Are spacers safe? Do I have to constantly tighten my lug nuts every 500 miles? I don't want my wheels flying off in the middle of the freeway. I called up discount tires and they have a policy that they will not service any cars with spacers.

I have a 95 NSX with chrome OEM wheels that are beginning to show its age. The tires are getting bald too. It's now time to upgrade but I'm low on cash. While I'm searching and saving for some 18/19's later, I got 4 front 2002 OEM's from craigslist sometime back. Yes, that's correct. 4 front 2002+ OEM's wheels. I tried to mount them on the rears of my 95 NSX and of course the front 2002 OEM wheels sit right on the brake guard. I was thinking of getting some H&R 25mm spacers for the front and rears but my friend who has an 2000 NSX and the guys at Discount Tires highly recommend never to use spacers because of the risk issues.

Alot of guys use spacers on their NSX. Has anyone ever had any safety, balancing issues?

Thanks for all of your expert opinion.

Nick

 

[EdinKali]

I haven't heard of any problems with the H&R spacers. I have the 25's on mine. So far no issues.

 

[stuntman]

Wait, you want to put a 215/40-17 tire on the ~17x7 stock front tire ON THE REAR of the car?

I wouldn't suggest putting such a narrow wheel/tire combination on the rear. You can do more harm than good. Find a used set of rear wheels and buy them.

Spacers aren't a problem. It's a good habit to get into checking the torque of your wheels and tire pressures once every or every other month, but even in track use, 25mm spacers are fine. The NSX has good wheel bearings (compared to a 350Z) and wider stance/spacers don't kill the wheel bearings on the NSX thankfully. We ran 280 front and 330 rear racing slicks with 25mm spacers all around and 700whp+ without any problems so I wouldn't worry about it.

I would work in finding proper rear wheels though.



Oh and you do not necessarily need hub-centric wheel spacers. According to CCW and a few other wheel companies, the wheel is centered by the studs and the lug nuts when the wheel is tightened down. Its a common misconception that hub-centric wheel spacers are mandatory to keep the wheel centered but apparently this is NOT true, but rather make the wheel centered and easier to mount but has nothing to do with the actual centering or stability of the wheel.


Billy

 

[Hapa88]

If you use hubcentric spacers. . . the thin one that are less than 10mm, always tighten the bolts down when the car is lifted off the ground (wheel isn't touching the ground). This will allow the wheels to be properly torqued down and torqued down evenly.

Both myself and my friends have done it where we hand tight the wheel on, drop the entire weight of the car down and torque. This has caused many problems. .. the worst case of my friend being his wheel came off when he was driving..

 

[synth19]

The normal/standard method is to hand tight in air, and then torque on ground. This is the first I've heard of suggesting to tighten/torque in air.

 

[EdinKali]

Also with alloy wheels you are supposed to re-torque after a short test drive.

 

[docjohn]

Nick to reiterate what Billy said ...your thinking that front wheels are ok in the rear is faulty,,,you should have asked first.....If your budget is that tight I would rethink the whole nsx thing....the car will only become more expensive to own as time goes on........

 

[nxpham]

thanks for everyones great input.

my dough supply is tight right now because i just spent $3K at the dearlership for timing belt, water pump, cam seals replacement, brakes, etc.

i was hoping to get by for a couple of more months before i buy some really nice rims.

billy and docjohn, you guys are absolutely right. thanks for knocking some sense into me.

i would never put the front 2002 oems rims on the back permenantly and drive it forever. the thought was it was just for a couple of months till i save more money.

after much consideration it doesn't make any sense for me to spend money on the spacers now. i would rather just put that money into the rims and wheels i want to buy later. i'm just not that secure with driving around with spacers. i'm sure it looks better but i'm sure not as safe. i think getting some cheap new wheels for the oem's 1995 rims is a safer option till i get some more dough saved up for some 18/19's.

thanks everyone.

p.s. anyone got any suggestions for some 18/19 5 spoke rims? thanx! my car is red and i was thinking of something in gunmetal.

 

[BATMANs]

The normal/standard method is to hand tight in air, and then torque on ground. This is the first I've heard of suggesting to tighten/torque in air.

It helps center the wheel when tightened in the air.

For TQing down the nuts/bolts I'll lower the car just enough so there is enough weight to keep the tire from moving when I'm TQing.

 

[stuntman]

thanks for everyones great input.

my dough supply is tight right now because i just spent $3K at the dearlership for timing belt, water pump, cam seals replacement, brakes, etc.

i was hoping to get by for a couple of more months before i buy some really nice rims.

billy and docjohn, you guys are absolutely right. thanks for knocking some sense into me.

i would never put the front 2002 oems rims on the back permenantly and drive it forever. the thought was it was just for a couple of months till i save more money.

after much consideration it doesn't make any sense for me to spend money on the spacers now. i would rather just put that money into the rims and wheels i want to buy later. i'm just not that secure with driving around with spacers. i'm sure it looks better but i'm sure not as safe. i think getting some cheap new wheels for the oem's 1995 rims is a safer option till i get some more dough saved up for some 18/19's.

thanks everyone.

p.s. anyone got any suggestions for some 18/19 5 spoke rims? thanx! my car is red and i was thinking of something in gunmetal.

To restate my last post, wheel spacers are not a problem. I would say its safer to run spacers with proper wheel/tire stagger than no spacers and a 215 rear tire.

Get over your fear of wheel spacers. I've run 25mm spacers all around on 280 and 330 racing slicks cornering at 155mph in Turn 8 at Willow Springs (apex speed, in the middle of a corner). The spacers are fine. Be more concerned about putting a wide enough rear tire on your car.

What is your current wheel setup and tire size (not your 4 new wheels but what's currently on your car).


Billy

 

[nsxtasy]

There are a number of issues concerning spacers, including lug nut tightness, center bore, hub centering, etc.

There are basically two kinds of spacers. One is a flat metal plate, and the other includes its own set of studs and lug nuts. With the flat metal plate spacer, you have to make sure the lug nuts are still using enough of the length of the stud to be secure. Some people say you need six full turns on the lug nuts, others say seven. If you don't have that many, then you need to replace your studs with extended studs, and replace your lug nuts with open-ended lug nuts.

The reason you can't use the front wheels on the NSX rear is, aside from the fact that they're too narrow (as noted above), the center bore of the rear wheels, along with the rear hub, is a smaller diameter than in front (64 mm vs 70 mm). That's why you can't put an NSX front wheel on the rear of an NSX. Not only can't it fit over the hub, but this means that the flat surface on the rear of the wheel can't fit snugly on the hub either, which is why you need the spacer just to push the wheel out. But even that doesn't guarantee a secure mounting, due to hub centering.

Some of the spacers, such as the ones made by H&R, include a replacement lip for the hub to assist in centering the wheels. Others don't. With ones that don't, you are relying entirely on the lug nuts to center the wheels, which is risky. I've known some people who encountered endless problems with vibrations using spacers without that centering lip, even after doing all the right things with tightening the lug nuts while the car is in the air, etc. I've known others who, like Billy, had no problems at all. I don't know why some people seem to luck out and others don't, but this is a significant risk, and one that you can avoid either by getting spacers with a hub lip, or by getting wheels that fit your car properly without needing spacers.

 

[CL65 Captain]

Ken,

I was running Enkei RFP01s on the track (Nitto NT01s) with the appropriate centering rings and kept breaking rear studs. So I switched to ARP studs and broke two in one session. So I emailed Cody from LoveFab, and asked him if he ever had problems with his monster NSX with the same wheels at the track. Said never and he wasn't running centering rings. Replaced the studs and put the wheel back on WITH OUT the centering ring and never broke a stud again.

So... what works in theory doesn't always work in reality. :tongue:

 

[nsxtasy]

I was running Enkei RFP01s on the track (Nitto NT01s) with the appropriate centering rings and kept breaking rear studs. So I switched to ARP studs and broke two in one session. So I emailed Cody from LoveFab, and asked him if he ever had problems with his monster NSX with the same wheels at the track. Said never and he wasn't running centering rings. Replaced the studs and put the wheel back on WITH OUT the centering ring and never broke a stud again.

So... what works in theory doesn't always work in reality. :tongue:

Well, hub centering rings is another part of the discussion, and we haven't even discussed those yet. Hub centering rings can create problems (like yours; I've also heard of problems with plastic ones melting, although not with the metal ones). Hub centering rings can also avoid problems (many other folks have vibration problems without the rings that go away with the rings). So there are risks of problems with the rings, and risks of problems without the rings.

Of course, if you have wheels whose center bore fits exactly over the car's hub, or if you get spacers with a hub-like lip which fits the center bore of the wheels exactly, you can avoid potential problems arising form a lack of hub centering AND arising from the use of hub centering rings.

 

[nxpham]

billy,

thanks for your input. i'm running the oem 1995 rims. 16/17's.

i'm currently looking for some 17/18's to replace the current 1995 oems wheels (my front runner choice are the titanium silver volks gt-v's). i like the look of 18/19's but don't want to drive on rubber bands. i'm not interested in lowering the car either because my drive way is steep enough as it is already. i get scraping even though i enter at diagonally. don't wanna replace my front lip monthly if i lower the car.

i figure now after all of you guys great input and advice it just better to get the right wheels and not have to worry about spacers, center hub, etc.

get fitment right the first time and just enjoy.

thanks everyone.

 

[angus]

The problems I see with spacers are due to human error , not the spacers themselves , wrong studs , wrong spacers , wrong wheel/spacer combo - I could go on and on - I think the fact that many race cars use spacers should be proof that they are plenty safe.

Period.

 

[Ready2Huynh]

I've ran a number of different spacer combos on mine and never had an issue. Just make sure you use a quality brand. Like everyone else is saying, install them properly and you'll be fine.

 

[A.S. Motorsport]

I've ran a number of different spacer combos on mine and never had an issue. Just make sure you use a quality brand. Like everyone else is saying, install them properly and you'll be fine.

I've never heard proven story's of spacers going bad.
Just make sure it's a quality part and it's all assembled correctly.

 

[hardy]

HERE is a GREAT thread from my350z. plenty of FAQs and answers.

 

[bambookid]

Billy or Nsxtasy or anyone else... help!

Today i removed my volks and installed OEM '92 rims on my '92 (for future track sessions). For some reason it doesn't bolt on flush all they way to the rotor/disk. In fact it was a pain in the ass and took a hammer and lots of kicking from the inside-out to remove the OEM rims. The center of the OEM rim just didn't want to fit around the center ring. It kinda fit sideways where on the inside, one side seemed closer to the rotor than the other side.

I put back my Volks and they fit perfectly.... Am i missing something? I'm wondering if the previous owner of the car whom i purchased the car & wheels from had a center ring installed (and somehow fused itself on to the OEM ring).

Below are some pictures of Volk fitment. They fit perfectly flush and bolt on without a problem.

 

[bambookid]

Now here are a few pics with the rims removed. It looks like the center hub has another silver ring around it but it looks worn down. Upon closer inspection, it even looks fused to the OEM Center ring cuz I can't seem to remove it. I've tried scraping it off with a screw driver and its stuck!

I also put on the OEM's and you can see they don't fit flush. There's a huge gap (about 0.5 cm - 0.75 cm) away from the rotor.

Do you think the previous owner as a larger center ring put on and somehow it fused itself and got worn down?

 

[EdinKali]

That silver ring isn't factory.

 

[docjohn]

exactly you have a squashed/fused whatever old centerbore ring stuck to your hub which needs to be removed before oem wheels will fit.maybe dremel it off.

 

[synth19]

exactly you have a squashed/fused whatever old centerbore ring stuck to your hub which needs to be removed before oem wheels will fit.maybe dremel it off.

+1.

 

[angus]

I use my Snap-On gasket scraper and a hammer to remove them when they are like this.

 

[angus]

OK , so I think this should end the question once and for all - here is a set of OEM porsche spacers - with the factory part#!!!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Pors...r_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item5d283d7f34