Starting engine duuring storage

[jeffreygebhart]

The winter months are rapidly approaching, and unless you're fortunate enough to live in a year-round warm climate, you'll be storing your car soon, like I do. I was chatting with some S2000 guys about winter car storage, Both the S2000 and NSX owner's manuals recommend starting the engine at least once per month, if possible, during storage, yet many S2000 owners will let their cars sit all winter without starting them and don't encounter any problems. I've been starting my two cars once per month when they've been stored. I'd like to hear what many of you guys do during storage...start it monthly or let it sit?

 

[Larry Bastanza]

I typically let it sit over the winter, keep it on a trickle charger, to save the battery. When I go to start it up after a long interval, I remove the connector for the fuel injection harness(passenger side engine bay) and crank it for a while to get oil pressure up, prior to starting it. Once I see the oil pressure gauge move at all, it is ready. Plug the connector back in and fire it up. Worked for me over the last 19 years......

HTH,
LarryB

 

[Old Guy]

My car goes into storage in October and comes out in mid April. I do not start it up while it is in storage. Three of the reasons are practical, I disconnect the battery rather than use a battery tender, I use a car cover and an air tight storage bag so unwrapping the car to run the engine is a hassle and finally, the car is in a secure off-site building. Perhaps the most important reason is that when the temperatures are in the 0 C range, my observation is that the C32 takes a long time to come up to operating temperature. In fact, I suspect that the engine may not reach operating temperature unless you actually load it by driving the car - hazards of the all aluminum engine. I think the worst thing you could do is to start it up and idle it for 5-10 minutes and then shut it off. Any moisture that accumulates in the sump from combustion will not get hot enough to burn off and similarly the exhaust system will not get hot enough to dry out (although being mostly stainless that is less of an issue).

I have on occasion used Larry B's suggestion for the injector resistor on restart (shunt plug on my 2000) - if in my enthusiasm to get going I remember to do it.

Something to consider if you live in an area subject to rapid changes in temperature and the car is not stored in a temperature controlled building. Where I live, it is very common to have a > 20C temperature swing in less than 24 hr. If the car temperature has leveled out at - 20 C and the temperature pops above 0 C, the warm air will typically have a high moisture content which results in condensation forming on metal parts still sitting at -20 C. Not so good for engine parts. When my son was away at university he put his RSX into storage (outside under a car cover). He wrapped up the tailpipe with a plastic bag and stuffed a plastic bag into the intake between the filter and throttle body to stop moist air from entering the engine during big temperature swings.

 

[sca037]

I typically let it sit over the winter, keep it on a trickle charger, to save the battery. When I go to start it up after a long interval, I remove the connector for the fuel injection harness(passenger side engine bay) and crank it for a while to get oil pressure up, prior to starting it. Once I see the oil pressure gauge move at all, it is ready. Plug the connector back it and fire it up. Worked for me over the last 19 years......

HTH,
LarryB

This is exactly what I've been doing to 3 'seasonal' cars, also for many years with no problems ^^^

 

[Honcho]

I typically let it sit over the winter, keep it on a trickle charger, to save the battery. When I go to start it up after a long interval, I remove the connector for the fuel injection harness(passenger side engine bay) and crank it for a while to get oil pressure up, prior to starting it. Once I see the oil pressure gauge move at all, it is ready. Plug the connector back in and fire it up. Worked for me over the last 19 years......

HTH,
LarryB

Me too. Modern synthetic oil does a good job putting a durable coating on all the metal parts. With my first NSX, I always removed the battery and put it on a tender. Same process as LarryB and Kaz- pull the injector resistor plug and do a few short blasts of cranking to circulate the oil. Then, I would fire it up and drive the car at highway speeds for 1 hour to boil off any water absorbed into the system over the winter and to start cleaning any corrosion/varnish buildup on all the internal parts with the hot engine oil. Worked great. Thankfully in Colorado we can drive our cars pretty much year round, as it is almost always sunny and dry here, even in winter!

 

[jeffreygebhart]

Thanks for the responses everyone! Not to press my luck, but can anyone tell me EXACTLY where the connector to the fuel injection harness/injector resistor plug is, or what it looks like? Unlike many in this community, sadly I can locate little under the hood beyond the oil dipstick

 

[furinax]

Hmm, how long are these cranks? I always wonder if I ruined my starter doing that (I used to do 10-20 second cranks).

 

[Mac Attack]

My car goes into storage in October and comes out in mid April. I do not start it up while it is in storage. Three of the reasons are practical, I disconnect the battery rather than use a battery tender, I use a car cover and an air tight storage bag so unwrapping the car to run the engine is a hassle and finally, the car is in a secure off-site building. Perhaps the most important reason is that when the temperatures are in the 0 C range, my observation is that the C32 takes a long time to come up to operating temperature. In fact, I suspect that the engine may not reach operating temperature unless you actually load it by driving the car - hazards of the all aluminum engine. I think the worst thing you could do is to start it up and idle it for 5-10 minutes and then shut it off. Any moisture that accumulates in the sump from combustion will not get hot enough to burn off and similarly the exhaust system will not get hot enough to dry out (although being mostly stainless that is less of an issue).

I have on occasion used Larry B's suggestion for the injector resistor on restart (shunt plug on my 2000) - if in my enthusiasm to get going I remember to do it.

Something to consider if you live in an area subject to rapid changes in temperature and the car is not stored in a temperature controlled building. Where I live, it is very common to have a > 20C temperature swing in less than 24 hr. If the car temperature has leveled out at - 20 C and the temperature pops above 0 C, the warm air will typically have a high moisture content which results in condensation forming on metal parts still sitting at -20 C. Not so good for engine parts. When my son was away at university he put his RSX into storage (outside under a car cover). He wrapped up the tailpipe with a plastic bag and stuffed a plastic bag into the intake between the filter and throttle body to stop moist air from entering the engine during big temperature swings.

A few of my cars sit in an old, leaky, unheated garage during 3-4 months, and the cold concrete slab and cold vehicles lead to a lot of condensation if a late Winter day happens to be warmer and humid. I just disconnect the battery. So in the past, I've tried to seal the intake and exhaust exits as well as possible too with plastic. I even take a few layers of Saran Wrap and use that as another seal between the gas cap threads and filler neck. I've never sealed up cars with a bag, but might try that this winter. It would be interesting to stick a humidity sensor inside the bag for monitoring. I'm thinking around 20-30% would be ideal and could be adjusted with desiccant.

Then, when the salt is generally off the roads, I'll change the oil and pull the plugs. With the plugs out and my fuel pump fuse removed, I'll crank over the engine in 5 second bursts about six times to build oil pressure without hardly any load on the bearings. Then, install plugs and fuel pump fuse and fire it up.

When I had the dry sump oil setup I could just remove the drive belt and crank it over manually to build oil pressure without turning the engine crankshaft which was nice. I didn't have to remove plugs before starting.

If you have a high compression ratio engine that has sat for three-four months then it's cheap insurance. My old American muscle car engines are easy to prime with a drill and no load on any bearings....

 

[goldNSX]

I'll let it run every month for 15 minutes at 2k rpm with the A/C ON for the first 5 minutes and at 3-4k rpm for the rest of the time. In the last minute a few VTEC revs to really circulate all of the oil. I even drive it out of the garage box to operate the clutch, the brakes and get the internals of the gearbox lubricated as well.

+
all seals get moistened again (dry seals can become a problem in the longrun).
the injectors won't get clogged as much as if they've been unused for 5-6 months (common problem).

The worst thing you can do is letting it run for only one minute. It would result in moisture within the engine/exhaust system. Then it's better to not start it at all.

 

[Old Guy]

A few of my cars sit in an old, leaky, unheated garage during 3-4 months, and the cold concrete slab and cold vehicles lead to a lot of condensation if a late Winter day happens to be warmer and humid. I just disconnect the battery. So in the past, I've tried to seal the intake and exhaust exits as well as possible too with plastic. I even take a few layers of Saran Wrap and use that as another seal between the gas cap threads and filler neck. I've never sealed up cars with a bag, but might try that this winter. It would be interesting to stick a humidity sensor inside the bag for monitoring. I'm thinking around 20-30% would be ideal and could be adjusted with desiccant.

This is what I use for the NSX and another car.

https://www.carbag.com/carjacket/

They come with reusable desiccant packs that you place in the bag to dry out the air. However, the last couple of years I haven't bothered. Where I live technically qualifies as 'arid' and if the car is dry (super important) and it has been a while since it has rained, the air in the bag at the time you zip it up is generally bone dry and trapped moisture is not a problem. The bags are 'effectively' air tight because you need to burp them on closing. For me, the 'tell' in spring time is the brake rotors. My son's car which just had a car cover always had a film of rust on the rotor surfaces from warm moist air condensing on the iron. My car always comes out of the bag with shiny clean rotors in the spring.

The car bag does preclude using a trickle charger / battery tender. Running the plug through the bag represents a breach (albeit small); but, the bigger issue is probably that you don't want to risk even the minimal gassing from the battery that might occur during extended storage.

 

[Old Guy]

Thanks for the responses everyone! Not to press my luck, but can anyone tell me EXACTLY where the connector to the fuel injection harness/injector resistor plug is, or what it looks like? Unlike many in this community, sadly I can locate little under the hood beyond the oil dipstick

If you can spot the dipstick, you are on the correct side of the car to find the injector resistor. Its on a metal stay in the engine compartment on the inside of the right rear fender, just back of where the engine room fan is / would be. The other option, as suggested by others and may be easier (only because those automotive multi pin connectors can sometimes be uncooperative) is to pull the fuel pump fuse. Depending on the year of your car, it may have a map of the fuse locations on / inside the fuse lid. At some point Honda stopped doing this and provided the map to the fuse locations in the owners manual.

View attachment 156381

 

[Mac Attack]

Thanks for the recommendation [MENTION=26435]Old Guy[/MENTION]

A little off-topic, but over the years I've tried a lot of things inside my cars and under the hoods while they're sitting during winter to keep out rodents (unless you use the plastic bags). I think the best thing is pure peppermint or wintergreen oil (I'll have to check) sprayed under the hood and inside the cabin. I mix it 50% with water, shake, and immediately spray a fine mist on the carpets and under the hoods until my eyes are watering. I do that about once a month. Apparently the sensitive rodents noses can't stand the scent. It doesn't smell as pleasing to me as dryer sheets (that don't work for keeping them away), but it's not a "bad" smell.

Manufacturers are switching to more environmentally-friendly soy-based insulation around wires. Rodents love them. I have problems with our newer Acuras and Toyotas. Honda even makes a rodent-resistant tape to go over wire looms if necessary....

 

[Old Guy]

Manufacturers are switching to more environmentally-friendly soy-based insulation around wires. Rodents love them. I have problems with our newer Acuras and Toyotas. Honda even makes a rodent-resistant tape to go over wire looms if necessary....

Just a couple of steps away from a Skinny Cinnamon Dolce Soy Latte for rodents.

At the storage facility where my NSX is, I have seen the Bounce fabric sheets up the tail pipe / on the tires / where ever. Always been a little suspect about that. The operator of the storage facility places warfarin laced bait around the perimeter of the facility and maintains 3 or 4 cats to do patrol. If a rodent wanted into the storage bag, I am sure that they would have no problem chewing their way in to the bag. The mesh reinforced plastic may not be to their taste and the bag may prevent them from sniffing out the tasty wiring inside. Whatever the reason, 7 years of using the bag and I haven't had a problem yet, although one year I did discover the remains of what looked like a couple of voles under the bag. The remains were fairly fresh so they may have been alive before I rolled the NSX off the bag. Had to hose the bag off before I could fold it up for the summer.

 

[ralph cerbone]

I run my car every weekend until the first snowfall , if it rains enough to wash salt off road I will take it out , I don't agree with letting this machine sit,

 

[Larry Bastanza]

Thanks for the recommendation [MENTION=26435]Old Guy[/MENTION]

A little off-topic, but over the years I've tried a lot of things inside my cars and under the hoods while they're sitting during winter to keep out rodents (unless you use the plastic bags). I think the best thing is pure peppermint or wintergreen oil (I'll have to check) sprayed under the hood and inside the cabin. I mix it 50% with water, shake, and immediately spray a fine mist on the carpets and under the hoods until my eyes are watering. I do that about once a month. Apparently the sensitive rodents noses can't stand the scent. It doesn't smell as pleasing to me as dryer sheets (that don't work for keeping them away), but it's not a "bad" smell.

Manufacturers are switching to more environmentally-friendly soy-based insulation around wires. Rodents love them. I have problems with our newer Acuras and Toyotas. Honda even makes a rodent-resistant tape to go over wire looms if necessary....

One important thing also for rodents is to make sure your heating system is set on recirculate, not fresh-air. this will close the door to the heating fan and keep a rodents nest out. I have seen the heater fan fully clogged with stuff many times from rodents building a nest in there....

HTH,
LarryB

 

[Mac Attack]

Good point Larry. On most of my vehicles I've actually covered the intake with fine wire mesh (and the pressure relief flapper for door or trunk closure). I think it's just some parts of the country are worse than others for rodents. Never had a problem until we moved to western PA. We never store food inside them and the kids don't eat in them.... Just one of those things over here I guess.

 

[ralph cerbone]

One important thing also for rodents is to make sure your heating system is set on recirculate, not fresh-air. this will close the door to the heating fan and keep a rodents nest out. I have seen the heater fan fully clogged with stuff many times from rodents building a nest in there....

HTH,
LarryB

Very good tip , I have 100 acres of wetlands across from my house and 350 acres of town parkland down the street , you would never believe I live in central westchester . I always put traps in my garage , never caught or found a rodent thanks to a lot of hawks and neighbors cats .

 

[jeffreygebhart]

If you can spot the dipstick, you are on the correct side of the car to find the injector resistor. Its on a metal stay in the engine compartment on the inside of the right rear fender, just back of where the engine room fan is / would be. The other option, as suggested by others and may be easier (only because those automotive multi pin connectors can sometimes be uncooperative) is to pull the fuel pump fuse. Depending on the year of your car, it may have a map of the fuse locations on / inside the fuse lid. At some point Honda stopped doing this and provided the map to the fuse locations in the owners manual.

View attachment 156381

(Smiling...) Thanks Old Guy, Larry, and everyone else. Diagrams such as this help! I guess I'll also get some peppermint oil and set it around, for I DO have rodents (you should see the carnage in may garage with all of the traps!). The cars only really sit from Dec. 1 - early April, so I'll probably-reluctantly-ignore the owner's manual recommendation and let it sit. And if it doesn't start in April, I'll begin a new thread!

 

[Old Guy]

If you are going to skip the monthly start, make sure you use a battery tender or disconnect the battery ground terminal while the car is in storage. If you don't do that I can guarantee you that the car will not start in the spring due to a dead battery. The parasitic loads in the NSX will kill the battery in 3 months, probably to the point that it will not accept a charge. The other thing to be concerned about allowing a battery to completely discharge is that they can freeze and crack at temperatures just below 0 C. Charged batteries generally won't freeze at the temperatures seen south of 60 deg north latitude.

I go into storage each year with a fully charged battery. Disconnect it in the fall and reconnect it in the spring and the NSX starts up pretty much like it was parked over night. With some of the late 60s early 70s muscle cars in the storage facility that I use, there is usually a little more drama on the spring start up.

 

[Mac Attack]

Don't forget to fill it up with a fresh tank of gas and add fuel stabilizer according to the instructions before storing. You should be fine!