Toda camshaft users, please chime in

[L_RAO]

I know there are a least cars in the US with Toda cams, but I'm not sure if they're here on Prime.

If anyone knows of a Toda cam (NSX) user, please direct them to this thread.

Thanks!

 

[sadlerau]

Don't have them on the NSX, yet, but have them in circuit racer Civics, both B18 and K20 motors. Give good power and have been faultless so far. B18 cams are in their 3rd or 4th motor so far. K20 has had 2 seasons up to now.

 

[L_RAO]

Thanks for the input.

How many miles are you putting on those cams per race season? I'm assuming these are track-only cars?

 

[sadlerau]

Very much track only cars, both have been/are multiple track record holders.

The B18 camshafts have now done 11 seasons of racing, but that would only be about 750 miles per season. Then you have a couple of dyno sessions a year. But you have to remember, those motors spend about 75% of their time above 8000 rpm

Oh, and oil gets changed for every meet. Here is the K20 powered EG winning our 2011 Australian Nationals event [Improved Production Racing Association].

[/IMG]

 

[ScienceofSpeed]

This engine uses Toda Type-C camshafts:
http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php?t=142227

You can see the build here:
http://www.scienceofspeed.com/newsletter/111611_3.5L_engine_build/

-- Chris

 

[docjohn]

Chris, can you describe any differences in the old comptech cams they used for thier iem package vs the toda specs.

 

[USAFguy22]

Chris, based on your link above, are you saying that the steel h-beam con rods are lighter than the OEM Ti rods? And also are you unable to balance the OEM rods?

 

[ScienceofSpeed]

Chris, can you describe any differences in the old comptech cams they used for thier iem package vs the toda specs.

The Toda cams are slightly more aggressive, however, we have not done back to back testing. Comparing the power this engine made with the ScienceofSpeed NA cams (which have similar profile to the older Comptech cams), the difference were very minimal (2-3 hp in different areas of the power curve).

 

[ScienceofSpeed]

Chris, based on your link above, are you saying that the steel h-beam con rods are lighter than the OEM Ti rods? And also are you unable to balance the OEM rods?

Our rotating assembly (rod, piston, & accessories) is lighter than the factory rod, piston, & accessories. That factory rod itself compared to the 4130 is lighter, but the overall assembly (which is what counts as the rotating mass) is less.

-- Chris

 

[L_RAO]

Chris,

Do you know if the Toda Cs made more power below VTEC as well? It looks like the non-VTEC lobes are bigger as well.

What valvespring/retainer combination did you go with?

Also, how many miles (street and/or track) has that motor seen?

Thanks!

 

[USAFguy22]

Our rotating assembly (rod, piston, & accessories) is lighter than the factory rod, piston, & accessories. That factory rod itself compared to the 4130 is lighter, but the overall assembly (which is what counts as the rotating mass) is less.

-- Chris

Ah ok so if one were to keep the oem crank/rods and have your hi-comp pistons this would be the lightest combo? Can this rotating assembly be balanced by you guys? Is SoS able to lighten/knife edge the stock crank at all to further lighten it? Just churning ideas for a high rpm build... Thanks

 

[L_RAO]

Bumping this up in hopes that someone else who is running the Toda cams will see it and chime in.

 

[austrian type-R]

we have this racecar S200 with NSX engine and Toda C's here in Austria, I think you saw the pics already. What do you like to know?

 

[L_RAO]

How was piston to valve and valve to valve clearance?

How much compression are you running?

How is the idle?

What is the usable powerband?

Thanks.

 

[austrian type-R]

CR is 11,5 with SOS pistons. I don't have a dynochart here but I will post it asap. Idle is like stock.

 

[GhettoRacer]

well I think with the NSX revival I might have to push the valve train kit development ahead!!

 

[DPG]

Anyone have anymore info on toda cams? Specifically B cams. I don’t want to go stroker.

 

[Honcho]

Anyone have anymore info on toda cams? Specifically B cams. I don’t want to go stroker.

The Toda B is and aggressive cam profile and will require both a valvetrain upgrade (36mm valves, springs and retainers) and dedicated engine management. This cam (along with the C) was designed to optimize airflow for the 3.2 and 3.5 liter engines rotating beyond 8,000 rpm with ITBs, so if you want to use it on a 3.0 with the factory rev limit and induction system, you will not be able to realize the full performance gain. In that case, the Toda A or Comptech is a better calibrated choice. For the Toda B, the primary and secondary lobes are much larger than the Honda genuine cams- they have nearly as much valve lift as the VTEC lobes on the Comptech cams! (11 mm vs. 11.43 on the CT) The Toda B VTEC lobes are even bigger- 12 mm of lift! Because they effectively delete the non-VTEC fidelity on the primary and secondary lobes, the B and C cams are really for race cars. You might be able to get them to run and idle smoothly with good tuning, but it will probably not be like OEM.

I try to steer most people to the Toda A and Comptech cams for street cars. Even there, you will need supporting mods and tuning to realize the full benefit of the cams. Bolt-on with no tuning, you're looking at maybe a 20 hp gain max and you will be at 100% duty cycle on your injectors in VTEC. The NSX heads flow extremely well from the factory, so they can support additional airflow from upgraded camshafts.

 

[DPG]

The Toda B is and aggressive cam profile and will require both a valvetrain upgrade (36mm valves, springs and retainers) and dedicated engine management. This cam (along with the C) was designed to optimize airflow for the 3.2 and 3.5 liter engines rotating beyond 8,000 rpm with ITBs, so if you want to use it on a 3.0 with the factory rev limit and induction system, you will not be able to realize the full performance gain. In that case, the Toda A or Comptech is a better calibrated choice. For the Toda B, the primary and secondary lobes are much larger than the Honda genuine cams- they have nearly as much valve lift as the VTEC lobes on the Comptech cams! (11 mm vs. 11.43 on the CT) The Toda B VTEC lobes are even bigger- 12 mm of lift! Because they effectively delete the non-VTEC fidelity on the primary and secondary lobes, the B and C cams are really for race cars. You might be able to get them to run and idle smoothly with good tuning, but it will probably not be like OEM.

I try to steer most people to the Toda A and Comptech cams for street cars. Even there, you will need supporting mods and tuning to realize the full benefit of the cams. Bolt-on with no tuning, you're looking at maybe a 20 hp gain max and you will be at 100% duty cycle on your injectors in VTEC. The NSX heads flow extremely well from the factory, so they can support additional airflow from upgraded camshafts.

Thank you for your thorough reply. I plan on doing valvetrain, ITB's, injectors and AEM for management. I can do oversized valves if that's ideal. I would rather not have to change displacement, but I don't mind doing pistons and rods if needed to raise the rev limit and maximize the cams safely. I am confident in my tuner to be able to get it running well for the street. Do you have a recommendation for compression as part of this system? Also, what is the ideal rev limit for the B cams? I know it won't be as smooth as the factory setup, but I don't mind a few hiccups here and there with idle. Thank you again for your help.

 

[Honcho]

Thank you for your thorough reply. I plan on doing valvetrain, ITB's, injectors and AEM for management. I can do oversized valves if that's ideal. I would rather not have to change displacement, but I don't mind doing pistons and rods if needed to raise the rev limit and maximize the cams safely. I am confident in my tuner to be able to get it running well for the street. Do you have a recommendation for compression as part of this system? Also, what is the ideal rev limit for the B cams? I know it won't be as smooth as the factory setup, but I don't mind a few hiccups here and there with idle. Thank you again for your help.

Definitely do the 36mm intake valves. Compression is a factor of the gas quality you have. Here in Colorado, we're stuck with 91, so I tend to stick to the factory compression. If you have regular access to high-test gas (100 RON+), IMHO you can get away with 11:1 or slightly more. I would go with the SOS pistons. As for the Toda B cams, they will produce power beyond 9,000 rpm, though at that range you likely will need to do some head porting and you will definitely need the Toda timing belt and oil pump gear. You may want to give Shad a call at Driving Ambition- he has a lot of experience with the NSX engine in race spec.

 

[dim_sum]

sorry to hijack the thread, has anyone ran toda type c cams with the toda 12.1 pistons? Are cam gears needed, im assuming toda cams and toda pistons should have the appropriate clearances for piston to valve contact

Thanks

 

[Honcho]

sorry to hijack the thread, has anyone ran toda type c cams with the toda 12.1 pistons? Are cam gears needed, im assuming toda cams and toda pistons should have the appropriate clearances for piston to valve contact

Thanks

You technically don't need cam gears, but you definitely need the Toda valve springs. You might want to contact Toda and see what they recommend for cam gear settings. A lot will depend on whether you keep the stock rev limit, or go beyond it.

 

[MotorMouth93]

I don't see why you'd bother with Toda pistons. You could get the same thing for a lot less money by just calling up Carrillo or Wiseco and telling them what you want.

 

[dim_sum]

Thanks for the response, toda valve springs are ordered. Ive contacted toda but havent gotten a reply yet regarding if cam gears are needed

 

[DPG]

Definitely do the 36mm intake valves. Compression is a factor of the gas quality you have. Here in Colorado, we're stuck with 91, so I tend to stick to the factory compression. If you have regular access to high-test gas (100 RON+), IMHO you can get away with 11:1 or slightly more. I would go with the SOS pistons. As for the Toda B cams, they will produce power beyond 9,000 rpm, though at that range you likely will need to do some head porting and you will definitely need the Toda timing belt and oil pump gear. You may want to give Shad a call at Driving Ambition- he has a lot of experience with the NSX engine in race spec.

Thank you very much for the information. I have 93 down in Houston. I don't have a problem with upgrading the belt and oil pump gears. Heads can have whatever is needed. I just want to make sure it all flows properly. So final questions I guess are if I am running 93 octane (I'm not looking to search out 100 on a consistent basis), should I stick with stock compression, and do I need to sleeve the block to run 9000rpm naturally aspirated with ITB's?

notes:
I do plan on doing forged pistons and rods, so money is being spent on those regardless of stock compression or not. I also plan on upgrading the coil packs.