V10 instead of V8? Why?

[NSXBat]

This seems to be more about Honda than about the NSX.

Honda must see that too many people make V8's and Honda seems to be saying that they want to be the best at something.... so they are taking the company down a path to be the best at V10's?

So what are they going to do with V10's once they perfect it like they did the 4 and 6?

Maybe we are talking about small displacment something new...for some new reason???

Or they just have all their IRL and F1 notes and figure a v10 is a way to get something out of all that research?

____________________________________________________________
From AutoWeek.com

"YUZO YAMAGUCHI | Automotive News
Posted Date: 7/20/05
TOKYO -- Honda Motor Co. has long maintained that it wouldn't develop a V8 production engine.But it now says it will develop a V10.

It isn't known if Honda plans to use the V10 in any other vehicles."What we're aiming at next is not a V8 but a V10," says Motoatsu Shiraishi, president of Honda R&D Co., Honda's engineering arm. "We've got to be the top of a top (group) in producing engines."

 

[Dave Hardy]

Seems dumb to me. If they want to forge new technology, they'd be better served by a V8 as the technology would spill over into the I-4's. If they wanted to save developement costs, make a new block and mount two S2000 heads on it. Viola - a 9000 RPM 4.4L V8 with very low developement costs, that should make roughly 450 HP.

 

[valenzul]

V10= V6 + 4cylinder Hybrid. :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

Acura confirms V10 for NSX replacement
Posted Jul 21, 2005, 3:00 PM ET by John Neff
Related entries: Sports/GTs



The ink has yet to dry on the NSX’s death certificate and already Acura has announced that a V10 will be the motivating force for its replacement when it arrives sometime in 2008 or 2009. This addresses the single largest complaint about the original NSX, which has always been its lack of power. No doubt this move was prompted by Nissan’s preparation of a new Skyline GT-R, as well as the announcement by Lexus of a new super coupe called the LF-A. [We openly welcome this battle between Japanese supercars -Ed. RH]

 

[Russ]

I welcome the V10 but find it curious, for a different reason. I see the V10 as Honda's way of bringing F1 technology to its flagship sport car. The thing is, by the time NSX2 comes to market, Formula 1 will have already moved to V8 engines.

 

[NSXGeek!]

One possibility is displacement & total output vs. short stroke / bore / high rev engine. The multiple cylinders will allow a large displacement while allowing a small relative stroke and bore for high rev performance. Don't forget they have also already produced inline 5 motors, and the V10 could be a forging of the technology. No one knows with Honda, they are very mysterious.

 

[WealthBuildR]

wow, im excited. put me on the waiting list. :smile:

 

[NetViper]

I am just glad that it will not be a stupid hybrid!!!!!!!!

I will never complain about it being a V10 vs a V8 though after all the years of the V6.

The one downside I see is that the gas mileage will most likely suck.

 

[Osiris_x11]

I am just glad that it will not be a stupid hybrid!!!!!!!!

I will never complain about it being a V10 vs a V8 though after all the years of the V6.

The one downside I see is that the gas mileage will most likely suck.

hmmm... Why are hybrids stupid

Hybrid technology is the future, for fuel-economy and for PERFORMANCE. An electric motor produces multi-fold more torque than a comparable combustion motor. Battery/energy storage & regeneration technology is advancing at breakneck speeds on a near-daily basis (lighter batteries literally engineered into the frame/chassis of the car!).

An ultra-lighweight car w/ more power, greater performance, and better fuel-economy than a conventional gas-powered car... Uhhh, like there is even an argument...

Prius-Insight-etc do not define 'hybrid'. Just as Michael Moore & Rush Limbaugh do not define "America" (in terms of physical stature :tongue: )

 

[Sig]

The one downside I see is that the gas mileage will most likely suck.

Under hard driving... yes. However, I would bet Honda will include some type of cylinder bank deactivation system for use in highway or light driving situations.

 

[NetViper]

hmmm... Why are hybrids stupid

Hybrid technology is the future, for fuel-economy and for PERFORMANCE. An electric motor produces multi-fold more torque than a comparable combustion motor. Battery/energy storage & regeneration technology is advancing at breakneck speeds on a near-daily basis (lighter batteries literally engineered into the frame/chassis of the car!).

An ultra-lighweight car w/ more power, greater performance, and better fuel-economy than a conventional gas-powered car... Uhhh, like there is even an argument...

Prius-Insight-etc do not define 'hybrid'. Just as Michael Moore & Rush Limbaugh do not define "America" (in terms of physical stature :tongue: )

IF and BIG IF, the battery can regenerate fast enough that a hybrib-system would not be dead weight on a track after 3 laps, then I would totally change my opinion.

Until that day, leave the Hybrids to the sedans.

 

[NetViper]

Under hard driving... yes. However, I would bet Honda will include some type of cylinder bank deactivation system for use in highway or light driving situations.

You are probably right about that.

 

[White92]

Under hard driving... yes. However, I would bet Honda will include some type of cylinder bank deactivation system for use in highway or light driving situations.

I agree. In that same report that the V-10 was announced, they also said that VCM (variable cylinder management) will be added to even motorcycles soon. Even the new Dodge Rams are supposed to have something like it soon.

 

[Osiris_x11]

much more to it...

IF and BIG IF, the battery can regenerate fast enough that a hybrib-system would not be dead weight on a track after 3 laps, then I would totally change my opinion.

Until that day, leave the Hybrids to the sedans.

How can a hybrid system be dead-weight if it's integrated into the chassis/frame of the car and the resulting car is a lighter weight than a comparable car? Even if it isn't operational after 3 track laps (which I highly doubt as even the most simple electric-battery will regenerate charge during braking, lateral accel, and even regular linear accel; there will also be renewal when coupled w/ the combustion gas-engine running) the modest contribution of the elec-motor in overcoming intertia and accelerating by delivering monstrous amounts of torque in bursts when needed will more than make up for it's shortcomings. Of-course as w/ all pioneering technology, time and growing pains are a given. Advancements will come in gradual steps, not a full-blown hydrogen powered Mclaren F1!

I am not an engineer so I can't really talk beyond my grasp of general physics and chemistry, so I won't. But I won't discredit or dismiss an intriguing concept or technical advancement based on a whim or self-derived generalization.

 

[NSXBat]

With most car companies looking to share chassis and engines..... what other cars in Honda's line-up will benefit from V10 production and research? Also, most Automotive companies go into a new engine program thinking about who they can sell engines to? Does Honda have any Automotive technology sharing programs with other Manufactures?


This Quote still stands out to me-

Motoatsu Shiraishi, president of Honda R&D -"We've got to be the top of a top (group) in producing engines."

 

[White92]

Does Honda have any Automotive technology sharing programs with other Manufactures

I think they have the 3.5 engine in the Saturn Vue or whatever it's called. Then there was the Trooper/SLX, Rodeo/Passport...that's all I can think of right now. haha

 

[Timpo]

Who cares.

I would rather see a V10 than a V8 in the new NSX.

preferably a V12

I'm a huge fan of V12 just because cool cars like Ferrari Enzo, McLaren F1, Pagani Zonda, Isdera Commendatore 112i, Lamborghini Murcielago, etc...are powered by V12.

V8 is nothing special, getting too common.

so many cars are powered by V8...

Mustang, Crown Victoria, Firebird, Camaro, Corvette, 4Runner, SC430, Q45, etc...

I know that there are huge differences between Ferrari F430's V8 than those V8 cars on the street, but I would be curious how V10 NSX exhaust note is going to sound like

 

[Edgemts]

Well could you imagine a 2l V10 making 500 hp weighing under 300lbs.

Honda's current v5 is making 270hp+, its NA,990 cc, no pnuematic valves etc and its approx 115lbs.

Put two in a nsx add all the electronics to link them, :biggrin:

But seriously a 3 to 3.5 l v10 would be capable of big Hp numbers, good fuel economy(comparitivly) and emissions and probably rev to 11K + in street trim

I am in,

Time to sell everything!!
anyone buying??

 

[AutoVation]

hmmm... Why are hybrids stupid

Hybrid technology is the future, for fuel-economy and for PERFORMANCE. An electric motor produces multi-fold more torque than a comparable combustion motor. Battery/energy storage & regeneration technology is advancing at breakneck speeds on a near-daily basis (lighter batteries literally engineered into the frame/chassis of the car!).

An ultra-lighweight car w/ more power, greater performance, and better fuel-economy than a conventional gas-powered car... Uhhh, like there is even an argument...

Prius-Insight-etc do not define 'hybrid'. Just as Michael Moore & Rush Limbaugh do not define "America" (in terms of physical stature :tongue: )

If the NSX replacement is to be as "groundbreaking" as the original NSX, they should go with a hybrid engine. Something like 500hp and 50mpg would not be out of the question. They could use this platform to showcase new hybrid technologies across the rest of their brand offerings.

An example of a Honda product that would benefit from this would be found here.

 

[swbatte]

I can't believe that some of the posters would question the wisdom of building a super car with a V10. How many of us have spent thousands into upgrading the power of our V6's? If there was a V10 conversion thread on Prime, would you read about it? What if it was a hybrid V10 with 400-500hp and the same torque, would you want it?

M5, Carrera GT, NSX. V10 sounds beautiful!

 

[apapada]

because they need the technology for other market segments. Here's a hint... Think "Titan"... :wink:

 

[NSXBat]

I can't believe that some of the posters would question the wisdom of building a super car with a V10.

Not Questioning the V10 ( Lambo's V10, is giving Ferrari's V8 fits...and I love it!!)

Just trying to understand Honda the Company.

Is it just a race car engine to beat Toyota? Maybe they don't think anyone can do the HP numbers with a V8 as the HP wars progress over the next five years?

...Or does the V10 fit into other products that Honda is planning? How? Why?

If you want the next NSX to make money.... Honda has to have other products to share the development of a new engine program.

(even Ferrari used Maserati to help spread the cost of designing their new engine as they moved from 360 to 430 engine. People bought the Maser to get the Ferrari engine.)

(and Audi is spreading the cost of the Gallardo engine by putting a version of it into their new La Mans (SP?) that just got the green light to be a 911 fighter in Germany.)

 

[swbatte]

I agree that Honda would love to make money with a new NSX, but I don't think they ever will no matter how many platforms they share then engine with, whether it's a V8 or V10. Unless....

they don't hand build it, and parts share like crazy with other Honda cars, don't use exotic materials like CF, Aluminium etc. If they build a Honda "corvette". Front engine rear drive etc etc...they may break even, but they just won't sell enough to make money.

 

[Dave Hardy]

I agree that Honda would love to make money with a new NSX, but I don't think they ever will no matter how many platforms they share then engine with, whether it's a V8 or V10. Unless....

they don't hand build it, and parts share like crazy with other Honda cars, don't use exotic materials like CF, Aluminium etc. If they build a Honda "corvette". Front engine rear drive etc etc...they may break even, but they just won't sell enough to make money.

Even if it's line built (which is a good thing IMO - hand built is over rated) then I suspect it will still be a midship transverse. Honda doesn't make a longitudinal engine in anything but the S2K. Their bread and butter is in transvers setups, and since the NSX set the precedent, I suspect the next one will follow suit.

 

[wswen]

Honda to Build V-10 Engine for NSX Replacement



July 21, 2005/World Markets Analysis





Japanese automaker Honda is to produce a V-10 engine to be fitted in the replacement for its NSX sports car, according to Automotive News. Honda announced earlier this month that it was ending production of the NSX this year in order to develop a new model to meet new emissions legislation being introduced in Europe and North America. The current NSX is powered by a V-6 engine.


Significance: Honda president Takeo Fukui announced earlier this week that developing advanced powertrains would be key to the company's goal of selling 4 million units by 2007/2008. V-10 engines have been traditionally used in F1 cars. Honda and BMW were amongst those carmakers leading opposition to changes in F1 engine regulations from V-10 to V-8 next year. Previously, carmakers were keen to use the marketing link between F-1 and their road engines to develop their brand reputation.

 

[1BADNSX]

V-10 great! Make it lightweight and short stroke for high revving horsepower.
So lets start a prediction game how the new NSX will be revolutionary. My first prediction is direct fuel injection. This will allow higher compression ratios and we may be talking about 500 HP out of a 4 Liter engine, in a lightweight chassis/engine package.


Does anybody know the Le Mans rules and different classes? I thought 4 liter used to be the up limit for one of the classes. Honda definitely needs to get some serious racing heritage out of the new package in order to gain worldwide recognition. Racing the new NSX, would give more credibility in my eyes than running poorly in F1.

Bob