V10 instead of V8? Why?

[nsxsupra]

v10>v8 imho

Obviously Honda knows what they are doing. When original NSX first came out, it was groundbreaking, it was also considered super car at the time

They can do another groundbreaking super car again. 15 years is a long time, it is time for major upgrade. If it can compete with new Z06 in terms of power and looks great at the same time, it will be a Ferrari killer again, most of us will probably buy one.

 

[surferX]

It's because of CHICKS, dammit...start thinking like a girl. That means throw away nearly every piece of useful knowledge and focus on superficiality instead of substance. Once you do that for a minute, it becomes obvious why the Ferrari is the better car.

Two guys compete for a girl in a club. One says he drives a Ferrari, one an Audi or a Honda. Who gets the girl? DUH. Chicks have to SEE the NSX to be impressed by it...they can merely hear about the Ferrari.

If you buy an exotic car for chicks, then you're in the for a big suprise...they attract a lot more teenage boys than chicks. First, your can can't come in the club so most chicks won't see it unless you valet it and the club has glass windows. Secondly, when is the last time you saw an "exotic" car pulled over with some chick trying to get the guys number. Let me guess...NEVER! That's because it doesn't happen. Lastly, any chick that would date you just because of your "exotic" car aren't worth having anyhow. You can keep them in my book. Being attractive and having an outgoing personality is what gets the most chicks. Always has been, always will be. So go get some plastic surgery for your face, liposuction for your gut. It will save a lot of money and time. Actually, no...buy a puppy and hang out at the park or beach...you'll meet tons of chicks that way. Way more than you'll ever meet for driving an exotic sports car!

 

[White92]

they attract a lot more teenage boys than chicks

I hear that's what Michael Jackson does.

buy a puppy and hang out at the park or beach...you'll meet tons of chicks that way. Way more than you'll ever meet for driving an exotic sports car!

But the sports car won't poop and pee on your carpet.

 

[ADNOH]

I hear that's what Michael Jackson does.



But the sports car won't poop and pee on your carpet.

LOL. And I believe Michael attracts PRE-teen boys.
And BTW it doesnt matter wether its a V-10 or V-8, as long as it makes 480-500HP and 350-400TQ, it will lkick ass.

 

[Jin1976]

V10 enuf power to beat Ferrari. If not atleast you can brag that the engine is bigger than theirs atleast not the V12. :tongue:

 

[willabeest]

If you buy an exotic car for chicks, then you're in the for a big suprise...they attract a lot more teenage boys than chicks. First, your can can't come in the club so most chicks won't see it unless you valet it and the club has glass windows. Secondly, when is the last time you saw an "exotic" car pulled over with some chick trying to get the guys number. Let me guess...NEVER! That's because it doesn't happen. Lastly, any chick that would date you just because of your "exotic" car aren't worth having anyhow. You can keep them in my book. Being attractive and having an outgoing personality is what gets the most chicks. Always has been, always will be. So go get some plastic surgery for your face, liposuction for your gut. It will save a lot of money and time. Actually, no...buy a puppy and hang out at the park or beach...you'll meet tons of chicks that way. Way more than you'll ever meet for driving an exotic sports car!

this is not completely true. a few years ago i developed a very nice relationship with a very nice woman which was initially based mainly on the fact that she liked my car. we eventually ended the relationship but it was entirely worthwhile and neither of us have any regrets.

 

[surferX]

this is not completely true. a few years ago i developed a very nice relationship with a very nice woman which was initially based mainly on the fact that she liked my car. we eventually ended the relationship but it was entirely worthwhile and neither of us have any regrets.

Not trying to be an ass but you just proved my point! How long have you owned your NSX, and you met 1 "very nice woman" and had a "very nice relationship"! So based on the previous logic that we buy these cars for "CHICKS"...that is plural, not singular! $90K for one "very nice relationship" sounds like a waste of money to me! I met a lot of "very nice women" and had "very nice relationships" while meeting them in the bar, library, beach, supermarket, etc. I'd say, based on your logic, you wasted your money...but I'm sure you didn't buy your NSX for "CHICKS" and are enjoying every penny of your investement! That was the point! No need to argue as I'm sure we're in violent agreement! :wink:

 

[BD]

You don't really believe this garbage that you're saying, do you? If by high-end you are referring to Ferrari, the technology in the F430 is far, far superior to anything Honda has, let alone the 15 year old NSX. Have you ever looked at a 360/430 up close - the carbon fiber venturi tunnel down the underside of the car is both beatiful and generates over 600 lbs of downforce top speed (whereas the NSX generates lift at high speed). The engine burns fuel so efficiently that the exhaust bypasses the cat converters at high RPM, and still achieves LEV2 emissions. Add in its carbon/ceramic composite brakes, sequential transmission, electronic differential, steering mounted suspension controller, stability and launch control and you got one hell of a technically sophisticated car. So you're saying that the people on the 2-year waiting list for the F430 are all/mostly clueless?

Ferrari owners are probably the ultimate "car guys" and Ferrari keeps serving up the ultimate car-guy products. The F40, F50, Enzo, FXX, Challenge, and Challenge/Stradale. Not to mention that you can actually buy (if you had the cash) the actual F1 cars from previous seasons. The 2004 Ferrari F1 cars were just sold to private enthusiasts - how's that for technology.

Ferrari is great, that's why they hired all the Honda F1 Engineers after Honda 's withdraw from F1 in 1992 to improve their race/road cars....lol F430? For twice the price of the NSX, it better be better in every direction.

 

[demigod]

One of these should suffice..

 

[MidShipCivic]

Honda first brought V10's to F1.. Cross Plane V8' are out of wack thats the reason why there are flat plane v8's. Why v10 over v8, 2 more cylinders to pull in air you can make all piston bore's smaller, crankshaft counter weights become smaller, the abilty to rev easier becomes greater, lowering the displacement and revving higher to make up for the drop in displacement,this is where the reliable in Honda comes from.

 

[AR]

As long as the can get the V-10 balanced it should be OK, but a V-8 or V-12 will be a better choice.

Toyota has had a 280 PS 5-liter 1GZ-FE engine since 1997 powering it Century Luxury Sedan.

Why can Honda give the HSC a V-12.

 

[TC]

F430? For twice the price of the NSX, it better be better in every direction.

I think that it is better is every dimension - engine, brakes, electronics, transmission, aerodynamics, materials, to name a few. Would you agree?

 

[BD]

I think that it is better is every dimension - engine, brakes, electronics, transmission, aerodynamics, materials, to name a few. Would you agree?

I disagree!!! Too bad they didn't bring the NSX R over. Performance wise, NSX R has better brake, construction, and suspension set up to die for. In fact, you can have the NSX R Suspension and Brake install in a regular NSX for fair $$$ and make the NSX handle better than the F430, however, NSX will still lack in raw power of the F430. As for better electronics, yeah, NSX does lack a in dash CD player…lol, I'm not much of a peddle shift person, so I'll take a standard tranny over any F1 Tranny. Again, for the price of F430, I can easily make a NSX faster and handle better - and probably still have better reliability record than the F430. For a car that was introduced back in summer of 1990, it's quite remarkable.

As for the V10, well, 1990 NSX achieved better power to weight ratio than the 348 with two cylinders less, so maybe a ten cylinder Honda will make it more powerful than a compare-able Ferrari V12? Plus V8 is boring, everyone does it, in fact, I think in this country, Honda is a auto manufacture with one of the largest market share that refused to make a V8. Honda always does things differently.

When Honda introduce the NSX replacement, Ferrari engineers will scratch their heads again like they did in 1990 - And will take another 10 plus year to figure out how to make a NSX replacement beater.

1990 Honda Accord - 140 hp
2006 Honda Accord - 240 hp

1990 Ferrari 348 - 300 hp
2006 Ferrari F430 - 490 hp

1990 BMW M3 - 173 hp
2006? BMW M3 - 400 hp

1990 Honda Civic Si - 109 hp
2006 Honda Civic Si - 197 hp

1990 Acura Legend - 160 hp
2006 Acura RL - 300 hp

1991 Acura NSX - 270 hp
2008 Acura NSX - 550 hp?????

In 10 to 15 years, we will most likely see a 400 hp Honda Accord, 700 plus hp baby Ferrari, etc. Never ending hp wars...

 

[TC]

Performance wise, NSX R has better brake, construction, and suspension set up to die for. In fact, you can have the NSX R Suspension and Brake install in a regular NSX for fair $$$ and make the NSX handle better than the F430, however, NSX will still lack in raw power of the F430. As for better electronics, yeah, NSX does lack a in dash CD player…lol,

I applaud your die-heart love of the NSX but...

Brakes - the NSX-R has the same as brakes as all (1997+) NSX's, which is to say that they are 2-pot front and 1-pot rear calibers clamping iron rotors. The Ferrari has 6-pot front and 4-pot rear calibers grapping carbon-ceramic rotors. The technology & performance isn't even close.

The NSX-R suspension is not adjustable as is the Ferrari's, which is electronically adjustable. Performance-wise, the F430's suspension is as good as any thing out there.

Construction - the Ferrari uses considerable carbon fiber which is devoid on the NSX. Both cars use aluminum extensively. The Ferrari interior is all leather, suede, carbon fiber and aluminum, whereas the NSX is mostly vinyl and plastic (only the seat fronts are leather). The engine bay of the Ferrari doesn't have plastic coolant tanks and the like.

By electronics, I was referring to driver aids - stability control, launch control, race manettino, electonic diff, etc., which the NSX does not have.

I don't see one substantive area where the F430 isn't significantly more advanced than the NSX.

 

[DutchBlackNsx]

I don't see one substantive area where the F430 isn't significantly more advanced than the NSX.

Fully agree.
Saw me first F430 this weekend, and it was more then i expected.
Had a good look all around, and it nice, very nice.

Just one thing i noticed on it.... the bodywork.... It is easy to see that the panels are made from different materials, straight through the paint.
Also, the rear quarter panels seemed to be not fully straight, i would say it had some bad finishing, or even same hard to see dents.

I thought it was pretty bad for a 200.000 Euro car.

Rest is all praise. On my list

 

[swbatte]

Fully agree.
Saw me first F430 this weekend, and it was more then i expected.
Had a good look all around, and it nice, very nice.

Just one thing i noticed on it.... the bodywork.... It is easy to see that the panels are made from different materials, straight through the paint.
Also, the rear quarter panels seemed to be not fully straight, i would say it had some bad finishing, or even same hard to see dents.

I thought it was pretty bad for a 200.000 Euro car.

Rest is all praise. On my list

Regarding Ferrari fit and finish, the F-car owners always say Ferrari quirks give it their pedigree and pedina (much like the cars from Zufenhausen). I think that they could still take a lesson from Acura on fitting body pannels and tolerances, but there is no question that the F430 is a gorgeous car that is more advanced than ours. And that is what it should be.

All the more reason to look forward to the son of NSX.

 

[MidShipCivic]

As long as the can get the V-10 balanced it should be OK, but a V-8 or V-12 will be a better choice.

Toyota has had a 280 PS 5-liter 1GZ-FE engine since 1997 powering it Century Luxury Sedan.

V8 isnt a better than a v10 the v10 is the best comprimise of a 12 and an 8 almost any engine can be balanced there called balance shafts.

 

[BD]

I applaud your die-heart love of the NSX but...

Brakes - the NSX-R has the same as brakes as all (1997+) NSX's, which is to say that they are 2-pot front and 1-pot rear calibers clamping iron rotors. The Ferrari has 6-pot front and 4-pot rear calibers grapping carbon-ceramic rotors. The technology & performance isn't even close. The NSX-R suspension is not adjustable as is the Ferrari's, which is electronically adjustable. Performance-wise, the F430's suspension is as good as any thing out there. Construction - the Ferrari uses considerable carbon fiber which is devoid on the NSX. Both cars use aluminum extensively. The Ferrari interior is all leather, suede, carbon fiber and aluminum, whereas the NSX is mostly vinyl and plastic (only the seat fronts are leather). The engine bay of the Ferrari doesn't have plastic coolant tanks and the like.

NSX R has a different brake discs and pads than the regular NSX. It is a much more effective set up, and again, I have to disagree with you. F430 might have more advance design, but its stopping power on the track has not been as effective. You can see it on the

As for adjustable suspension, it's not a big deal for me, but is nice to have. Do you know the US spec F40 didn't have adjustable suspention?

As for leather/carbon fiber interior, it's all cosmetic enhancement, not performance related. I guess it's nicer, therefore, better

All the electronic gadget is needed for the F430 to help the car meet the engine power, NSX's designer Uehera holds the philosophy of simple package, lean design. Perhaps becuase the NSX is lack on hp, which didn't need all that stuff. You can make the same arguement with the F40, which also lack of all the electronic aid, and you can't possibly telling me the F430 is better.

Well, I do like the F430, if I have the money, I have on in my garage along with the NSX. But if I have my way, I'll take a F40 over both of them.

 

[AR]

V8 isnt a better than a v10 the v10 is the best comprimise of a 12 and an 8 almost any engine can be balanced there called balance shafts.

But there are engines like the V-12 that are balanced to beging with and most V-8 can also be easily balanced.

Why not have a 3 liter V-8 turbocharged or a 5 liter V-12 NA?

Why V-10?

Cheers

AR

 

[swbatte]

If it wasn't a V10 people would ask:

"Why a V8?" or "Why only a twin turbo V12?" or "Why a twin turbo, supercharged, nitrous inline 6?"

Who cares? A Honda V10 will be awesome with rear wheel or SHAWD.

 

[NetViper]

If it wasn't a V10 people would ask:

"Why a V8?" or "Why only a twin turbo V12?" or "Why a twin turbo, supercharged, nitrous inline 6?"

Who cares? A Honda V10 will be awesome with rear wheel or SHAWD.

Personally I don't want SHAWD because of the extra weight it will add. I don't think it is needed with todays advanced control systems. The F430 has no problem around the track being rwd. Neither does the M5.

 

[JD Cross]

I've enjoyed reading this thread immensely
I bought my 91 NSX new and have enjoyed it for almost 15 years
I cancelled an order for a 348 in order to buy it.

Initially there was a wait list for the NSX and so it seemed it would be an exclusive car but with Honda reliability.

Then Honda made what I believe was their fatal marketing blunder,
they overproduced the NSX
In a market segment that prizes exclusivity and is all about taste and emotion
you can't overproduce
Ferrari has mastered the discipline of producing one less car than they can sell, and as a buyer you are assured of an exclusive machine that will hold it's value.
Once the NSX began to sit in inventory the aura of exclusivity vanished
and it become an expensive Accord.
At this point no matter how good the NSX was , it had lost its appeal to the exotic segment

The next NSX will be a wonderful machine no matter what engine Honda puts into it.

The key to its success, to me, will the marketing program

Consider how the NSX would appeal if supply was limited and particulary if it went to previous NSX owners only for the first two or three years.

An NSX more exclusive than a Ferrari!! Limited production and very tightly controlled.
It would make a Ferrari seem common

Think about it

Jim
91 Blk/blk

 

[chumch]

I've enjoyed reading this thread immensely
I bought my 91 NSX new and have enjoyed it for almost 15 years
I cancelled an order for a 348 in order to buy it.

Initially there was a wait list for the NSX and so it seemed it would be an exclusive car but with Honda reliability.

Then Honda made what I believe was their fatal marketing blunder,
they overproduced the NSX
In a market segment that prizes exclusivity and is all about taste and emotion
you can't overproduce
Ferrari has mastered the discipline of producing one less car than they can sell, and as a buyer you are assured of an exclusive machine that will hold it's value.
Once the NSX began to sit in inventory the aura of exclusivity vanished
and it become an expensive Accord.
At this point no matter how good the NSX was , it had lost its appeal to the exotic segment

The next NSX will be a wonderful machine no matter what engine Honda puts into it.

The key to its success, to me, will the marketing program

Consider how the NSX would appeal if supply was limited and particulary if it went to previous NSX owners only for the first two or three years.

An NSX more exclusive than a Ferrari!! Limited production and very tightly controlled.
It would make a Ferrari seem common

Think about it

Jim
91 Blk/blk

Despite ferrari's low volume of production, most of their recent cars (over the last 25 years) have fallen in value quite significantly.

 

[JD Cross]

Chumch

Of course Ferrari's drop in value, but I'd suggest if you compare a Ferrari's purchase price to it's used price , the ratio compares favourably with most other cars

I think most cars are depreciating assets for their first 25 years
Of course along the way some become collectible and may rise in value

One thing that seems constant in this area is the perception of exclusivity

I believe the NSX averaged about 1400 cars per year in it's lifespan
but they produced 8500 for the 1991 model year and 2225 for the 92

So on average the NSX is far more rare than a Ferrari but doesn't have the same auara of exclusivity
I believe this is due to the overproduction of the 91 and 92 model years

If Honda had capped production at 1500 per year I would argue that the NSX today would be seen as exclusive indeed, even though total sales over the 15
years would have been the same

We'll see if Honda falls into the same trap on the next generation NSX or if they have matured in their marketing approach

Jim

 

[chumch]

Chumch

Of course Ferrari's drop in value, but I'd suggest if you compare a Ferrari's purchase price to it's used price , the ratio compares favourably with most other cars

I think most cars are depreciating assets for their first 25 years
Of course along the way some become collectible and may rise in value

One thing that seems constant in this area is the perception of exclusivity

I believe the NSX averaged about 1400 cars per year in it's lifespan
but they produced 8500 for the 1991 model year and 2225 for the 92

So on average the NSX is far more rare than a Ferrari but doesn't have the same auara of exclusivity
I believe this is due to the overproduction of the 91 and 92 model years

If Honda had capped production at 1500 per year I would argue that the NSX today would be seen as exclusive indeed, even though total sales over the 15
years would have been the same

We'll see if Honda falls into the same trap on the next generation NSX or if they have matured in their marketing approach

Jim

I think it has more to do with being "just a Honda" than the production numbers. People of wealth at a party would rather say they arrived in their Ferrari rather than their Honda.