Very little grip

[Hadrien*]

Hello all,

I am a new NSX owner, have my car since 3 month now ( 91 NA1 )
I have just installed new tyres on my fat-fives, advance Neova AD08, the car feels pretty planted on the straights and on braking but for cornering it is absolute s**t.
It understeers a lot at slow speeds and has a lot of snap on oversteer at mid speeds. I am a lot faster in small city corners or small twisty roads with my old Volvo or with my grandma's fiesta.

I have read everywhere that the NSX is an amazing handling car but it doesn't feel like it at the moment ( I love the car don't get me wrong )
My car has 100k miles, and rides very well, the suspension is confortable and holds the car tight also it is original i believe cause i couldn't find any service records saying the dampers have been changed.

What should i do ? Try a different geometry setup ? I should at least see if the geometry is good actually...
I am thinking going front nsx-r brace, nsxr front sway bar and maybe KWV3 but only if it is worth it.

Is there any more mods so the car could feel tighter underload and especially on the rear which i feel is vague.

( just for background i used to be a high level racer, shifter, F3, carrera cup )

Thanks a lot guys !

Hadrien

 

[mwagner10702]

What tire pressures are you running?

 

[jwmelvin]

What is the date code on your tires? You give a tire name similar to the Yokohama Advan Neova AD08 R. Is that your tire?

 

[Hadrien*]

I am runing 2.3 front and 2.7 rear, 33 and 39 psi.
The date code on the tyre is very recent i checked before, yes my tyre is the Advan Neova AD08R.

 

[mwagner10702]

The AD08R is a directional tread. Could the tires be mounted incorrectly?

 

[docjohn]

I'm thinking you need alignment and new dampers

 

[Chase_acura]

stock suspension?
91 probably has a manual rack so slow speed require a bit more steering but not much
alignment specs? maybe tow angles are off

 

[goldNSX]

What should i do ? Try a different geometry setup ? I should at least see if the geometry is good actually...
I am thinking going front nsx-r brace, nsxr front sway bar and maybe KWV3 but only if it is worth it.

That's quite a reasonable way to go if you do all of them.

 

[Hadrien*]

The tyres are properly mounted in the right direction.

Yes it is on stock suspension, which even if they ride nice is making me believe they are shot with 100k miles and 27 years.

I am willing to go all the way and do the mods I listed but if only if it is really worth it. Don't get me wrong I love my car but i am still wondering if it is just a GT car or a tourer in fact more than a truc sportscar.
I own quite a few european hot hatch from the 80's, 90's and an Integra DC2 R and there is no way i would know where one of those has gone on a small B road.

Or maybe it is just that the nsx is only quick on a track where you can exploit all it's potential and steer it like a proper mid-engine car with the rear turning on you with almost no steering lock under braking.

 

[goldNSX]

but i am still wondering if it is just a GT car or a tourer in fact more than a truc sportscar.

A standard NSX with old shocks is more like a GT, that's correct. Get the updates from the JDM Type S and R and you'll turn it into a sportcars. Period.

 

[CB72]

As stated above, the alignment is very critical on the NSX.
The standard settings for the NSX include toe out in the front that can make the car handle quite abruptly.
My car has slight toe in in the front that makes the car far more predictable.
Make sure there is no play due to wear in the suspension before upgrading anything...
You have my phone number to discuss further.

 

[NSXGB]

How many miles have you done on the new tyres, might take a while to scrub off the release agent used in manufacture. I had new boots on another car recently and it was like driving on snow for the first 10 miles, then took a few 100 miles to gradually come good. Was a much cheaper brand though.

 

[mwagner10702]

I'm thinking you need alignment and new dampers

+1.

I'd try this first before going down the road of chassis bars, KW3, etc. If I remember correctly the original alignment specs (especially the rear) were set to maximize rear tire tread wear, not handling performance. I am sure someone can chime in and provide some performance oriented alignment numbers.

Here are my most recent alignment numbers. I am also running AD08R tires and track the car. These tires do very well on the track and the car is very stable.



Watch this video of Ayrton Senna driving an NSX-R at Suzuka. Even the R model has oversteer issues when pushed hard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUVkVB3SUf4

 

[goldNSX]

the original alignment specs (especially the rear) were set to maximize rear tire tread wear, not handling performance.

It's the other way around. From the factory, the car had an alignment right for the track. Some people complained about tire lifespan and even got checks for new tires back then and the garages used a more conservative alignement for the not-track-rats to get better tire life.

It might be blown shocks and/or the alignement but living next to France like the OP too, I also think that the stock suspension is more sort of a GT, even if the shocks are still good. I went with sways, suspension, lowering and now it feels good. I can't imagine going back to OEM I'm afraid to say. Clearly before the area of electronic suspensions like nowadays, Honda tried the impossilbe spread to fulfill anybodys needs and IMO Honda streched it too far.

The car in the video is a Type-R which comes with a much stiffer suspension than stock.

 

[mwagner10702]

It's the other way around.

Thanks [MENTION=10201]goldNSX[/MENTION] for the clarification.

 

[Hadrien*]

The tyres have 800miles now and the grease is long gone.

Looking at my car the front and rear tyres looks to have very little positive camber which is not good for grip.
Thanks for the alignement spec sheet, it looks pretty good. Does anyone has some more ? I am looking to have a car with good overall grip but not be a pain to drive or too darty.

Actually i am pretty sure my shocks are still kinda okay, they don't crash and the feeling at normal road speed is very good even on bumpy roads, but yeah it feels GT.

Thanks everybody for the input, i will book an alignent this week and see what is what.

 

[docjohn]

ask for the type S specs...

 

[mwagner10702]

Here is the link from the Wiki that discusses alignment specifications. You'll find the Type-S specifications there.

http://www.nsxprime.com/nsx-faq/tires-and-wheels/alignment/

 

[Hadrien*]

Here is the link from the Wiki that discusses alignment specifications. You'll find the Type-S specifications there.

http://www.nsxprime.com/nsx-faq/tires-and-wheels/alignment/

Thanks a lot ! I will have a deep look at that !

 

[docjohn]

Get a grip!:tongue:

 

[stuntman]

Post your alignment sheet.

Run 2.4bar front AND rear.

 

[mwagner10702]

. . . Run 2.4bar front AND rear.

Is this hot or cold pressure?

 

[stuntman]

Is this hot or cold pressure?

cold. I shoot for 32-36psi HOT on track. For the street, 33-34 cold front AND rear is reasonable. I hate seeing the continued use and recommendation of 39psi cold in the rear for the street and especially the track. The rear tire pressures build up way too much and greatly reduce grip and stability.

 

[mwagner10702]

. . . . cold. I shoot for 32-36psi HOT on track.

Does tire type (i.e. slick, R-comp, street) impact the pressure settings? I had a track day recently and was running hot pressures of 36(f) and 38(r) which seemed to perform OK. I am running AD08R (215/40-17 and 265/35-18).

Without a full in-depth analysis of the rest of my suspension or driving skills, in general, what impact will lowering my hot pressures to your 32/36 hot suggestion have on my track handling?

Sorry for all the questions - always looking to gain additional knowledge especially when it come to improving my track setup.

Thanks.

 

[stuntman]

Does tire type (i.e. slick, R-comp, street) impact the pressure settings? I had a track day recently and was running hot pressures of 36(f) and 38(r) which seemed to perform OK. I am running AD08R (215/40-17 and 265/35-18).

Without a full in-depth analysis of the rest of my suspension or driving skills, in general, what impact will lowering my hot pressures to your 32/36 hot suggestion have on my track handling?

Sorry for all the questions - always looking to gain additional knowledge especially when it come to improving my track setup.

Thanks.

That's not a split front to rear but a range. There will be small variances from tire to tire but moreso as you change the size of the tire. In general for cars of this weight and tire size, keeping hot pressures below 40psi is generally ideal, with the most grip when the tire is 32 to 36 psi hot. For your 215/265 I'd recommend shooting for 36psi hot front and rear and trying to keep them under 38psi hot. So you're already in that range but I would personally target the same pressures front and rear.