What's the BEST wax

[Sleek]

To answer this question properly, the condition and color of your paint needs to be addressed. The reason I say the color is this, we all know a dark color i.e. black, dark blue even red show more imperfections then any other color. If you can see swirl marks ( not scratches ) swirl marks are from previous high speed polishing ( buffer ). Swirl marks mean that the proper steps were not taken during the high speed process. A lot of detail shops are more or less a production type shop, make it shine and get it out the door. When a high speed buffer is used there needs to be a minimum of 3 stages of polishing to properly treat the paint and address each and every type of problem that the paint has. What I mean by production type detail shop is this, to get all the imperfections out you need to be buffing ( high speed ) on avg a one sq ft x one sq ft area when buffing with the CLEANER polish. A production shop will usuaully buff a much bigger area i.e. buffing half the hood in one step. Unless your car is being color sanded ( wet sanded ) or you have some really deep scratches ( that you can see white within the scratch ) there is NO NEED to use an abrasive material like a compound, NEVER. That is the main reason why people have swirl marks, because a shop used an abrasive compound and then just used a orbital polisher or by hand applied a wax.. This is just masking ( hiding ) the swirl marks. After the wax is washed off after a few washes your gonna see the swirls again. If you are using an abrasive compound in step one step two HAS to be a polishing cream or polish. This step eliminates the swirl marks by polishing them out. Lets remember swirl marks are scratches from either using a compound and or using a wool pad or a cutting foam pad. If i polish a car I either use one of these two pads ( wool or cutting pad ) THEN use a polishing pad in step two. Step three is applying your glaze or sealant, I myself mix glaze and a sealant together in the same bottle and apply this mixture for step three.
I kind of went off here but all a wax will do is mask your paints problems. So if you have swirl marks or what I call spider web scratches everywhere ( these are from normal washing or drying your car that are more visible on dark colors ) a wax will only hide your issue.
How you wash your car will help you SO MUCH in the care of your paint. I cringe when I see someone washing a car and I see them wash the hood then fender then wheel then go down the side and wash down by the rocker panel then wash the door etc etc etc.. I have two wash mitts one for the top panels and the sides, I don't wash below side moulding on the door with this mitt. Then I grab the second mitt and wash all the glass then below the door moulding's then the rockers then wheels. If you follow this washing procedure I guarantee you will eliminate a lot of the damage that is done while washing the car.If you have nicer aftermarket wheels I would suggest a mitt just for your wheels. The areas that collect and hold onto most of the dirt are all of your glass wheels and lower sides of cars, so if your using one mitt and just washing all over and not in stages or steps your smearing all that dirt and grime all over the car which of course is going to scratch your paint everywhere.
So after all that if you don't have major paint issues stick with a GOOD GLAZE and SEALANT. Read the label if you see alcohol or any type of animal fat stay away both of these will dry out your paint in a heart beat. Think of your paint like your skin, if you put alcohol on your skin it's gonna dry out, right? Same for your paint. Your paint has pores in it just like your skin if the pores in your skin get clogged your skin gets oily. If the pores in your paint get clogged and cant breath your paint is going to oxidize and become brittle and not have a lot of defense against scratching etc. So how you care for your paint starts with how you wash it.. Please don't use the broom brushes at your local do it yourself car washes!!!!!! Just remember if you buy a product off the shelf at your parts store you will need to apply this product more frequently, then say a professional product.
Apply your glaze sealant or whatever you use the same way I explained how to wash your car TOP TO BOTTOM. Also do one panel at a time when applying your paint protection this will not allow the paint protection time to completely. Use two wipe off cloths ( fold em up into squares ) one to take off the first layer of paint protection then the second one to do the final wipe down. I promise you if you do it this way, wash and apply the paint protection and removal with two cloths you will find it to be way less harsh on your paint and easier to care for your paint..
Again myself I stay away from waxes because all they do is mask they don't treat and protect the pores in your paint like a glaze and sealant will protect.
What brand to use depends on you, it's all in the proper prep work before the paint protection is applied and how it is applied that really truly counts, and of course how often you wash and apply paint protection.
Sorry for the length of this but I hope it helps someone!!!
Bob

 

[itrsteve]

If you can see swirl marks ( not scratches ) swirl marks are from previous high speed polishing ( buffer ). Swirl marks mean that the proper steps were not taken during the high speed process.
Bob

I quit reading after that... huge misconception, swirl marks are more than likely to happen by hand in the soaping process... dirty water, dirty mitt, dirty paint and having dirt just drove into your clear coat.

This is why people use the foam gun so they can loosen everything up and get the clear coat lubricated so there is no scratching upon the soaping process.

Polishes and compounds help trim down the angle of the edges of the blemish so they are less easy to be seen by the eye.

 

[Sleek]

With all due respect, swirl marks are from a buffing pad wether it be a foam pad or a wool pad! Thats where your misconception is, when you wash a car the wrong way you will scratch your paint wether those scratches are long and straight or in a circular motion.
It's your car, your paint treat it the way you wish, I'll take my 20 plus verifiable years of Concourse De Elegance show car detailing with me and utilize what I preach on my own black paint and be quite content..
To all others I hope you have luck in what your trying to accomplish and have success..

 

[Blacknot]

With all due respect, swirl marks are from a buffing pad wether it be a foam pad or a wool pad! Thats where your misconception is, when you wash a car the wrong way you will scratch your paint wether those scratches are long and straight or in a circular motion.
It's your car, your paint treat it the way you wish, I'll take my 20 plus verifiable years of Concourse De Elegance show car detailing with me and utilize what I preach on my own black paint and be quite content..
To all others I hope you have luck in what your trying to accomplish and have success..

I own 2 black cars and have a friend who spent 8 hrs on my S2000 and under fluorescent light you could not see any swirls when he was done. After washing it several times i got swirls so you are 100% right. I appreciate your information. I have been detailing my own cars for about a year and on black you learn well since it shows every flaw. What i love about these car forums is when someone like yourself takes the time to try and help. Someone else tells you that you dont know what you are talking about. . This prevents people with real knowledge from wanting to take the time and help and share

 

[itrsteve]

when you wash a car the wrong way you will scratch your paint wether those scratches are long and straight or in a circular motion.

Correct, I just wanted to clarify for those that didn't know that swirls & imperfections on your clearcoat can come from more than just machines (which yes can also cause them). Careless washing can definitely attribute. I wasn't trying to call you out or anything like that, just clarification.

 

[Sleek]

Appreciate it BlackNot. Blacks the toughest but when done right nothing looks better then black..imho....

 

[SPTNSX]

Detailed Image is the best, IMO. Their Ask-A Pro blog is really good, anything by Todd Cooperider is money.

I just bought Blackfire Wet Diamond for $25 shipped.
http://www.autopia-carcare.com/blackfire-car-care.html
They are having a 25% off on all Blackfire products.
Plus, if you apply this promo code during checkout, you get another 10% off
Promo code: NEWEMAILGUEST

 

[robbiedawg]

I've had fantastic results with a Chemical Guys EZ-Creme glaze, followed by the Blackfire Wet Diamond Sealant when applied with a PC 7424 dual action orbital.

A quick and simple guide that I have referenced a few times is http://www.detailedimage.com/Auto-Detailing-Guide/ That site offers quite a few helpful pointers and they deliver products very quickly. Using Autopia though, you can drown in all the detailing jargon and argument.

another thanks for this detailing guide.short and sweet.

 

[SPTNSX]

To answer this question properly, the condition and color of your paint needs to be addressed. The reason I say the color is this, we all know a dark color i.e. black, dark blue even red show more imperfections then any other color. If you can see swirl marks ( not scratches ) swirl marks are from previous high speed polishing ( buffer ). Swirl marks mean that the proper steps were not taken during the high speed process. A lot of detail shops are more or less a production type shop, make it shine and get it out the door. When a high speed buffer is used there needs to be a minimum of 3 stages of polishing to properly treat the paint and address each and every type of problem that the paint has. What I mean by production type detail shop is this, to get all the imperfections out you need to be buffing ( high speed ) on avg a one sq ft x one sq ft area when buffing with the CLEANER polish. A production shop will usuaully buff a much bigger area i.e. buffing half the hood in one step. Unless your car is being color sanded ( wet sanded ) or you have some really deep scratches ( that you can see white within the scratch ) there is NO NEED to use an abrasive material like a compound, NEVER. That is the main reason why people have swirl marks, because a shop used an abrasive compound and then just used a orbital polisher or by hand applied a wax.. This is just masking ( hiding ) the swirl marks. After the wax is washed off after a few washes your gonna see the swirls again. If you are using an abrasive compound in step one step two HAS to be a polishing cream or polish. This step eliminates the swirl marks by polishing them out. Lets remember swirl marks are scratches from either using a compound and or using a wool pad or a cutting foam pad. If i polish a car I either use one of these two pads ( wool or cutting pad ) THEN use a polishing pad in step two. Step three is applying your glaze or sealant, I myself mix glaze and a sealant together in the same bottle and apply this mixture for step three.
I kind of went off here but all a wax will do is mask your paints problems. So if you have swirl marks or what I call spider web scratches everywhere ( these are from normal washing or drying your car that are more visible on dark colors ) a wax will only hide your issue.
How you wash your car will help you SO MUCH in the care of your paint. I cringe when I see someone washing a car and I see them wash the hood then fender then wheel then go down the side and wash down by the rocker panel then wash the door etc etc etc.. I have two wash mitts one for the top panels and the sides, I don't wash below side moulding on the door with this mitt. Then I grab the second mitt and wash all the glass then below the door moulding's then the rockers then wheels. If you follow this washing procedure I guarantee you will eliminate a lot of the damage that is done while washing the car.If you have nicer aftermarket wheels I would suggest a mitt just for your wheels. The areas that collect and hold onto most of the dirt are all of your glass wheels and lower sides of cars, so if your using one mitt and just washing all over and not in stages or steps your smearing all that dirt and grime all over the car which of course is going to scratch your paint everywhere.
So after all that if you don't have major paint issues stick with a GOOD GLAZE and SEALANT. Read the label if you see alcohol or any type of animal fat stay away both of these will dry out your paint in a heart beat. Think of your paint like your skin, if you put alcohol on your skin it's gonna dry out, right? Same for your paint. Your paint has pores in it just like your skin if the pores in your skin get clogged your skin gets oily. If the pores in your paint get clogged and cant breath your paint is going to oxidize and become brittle and not have a lot of defense against scratching etc. So how you care for your paint starts with how you wash it.. Please don't use the broom brushes at your local do it yourself car washes!!!!!! Just remember if you buy a product off the shelf at your parts store you will need to apply this product more frequently, then say a professional product.
Apply your glaze sealant or whatever you use the same way I explained how to wash your car TOP TO BOTTOM. Also do one panel at a time when applying your paint protection this will not allow the paint protection time to completely. Use two wipe off cloths ( fold em up into squares ) one to take off the first layer of paint protection then the second one to do the final wipe down. I promise you if you do it this way, wash and apply the paint protection and removal with two cloths you will find it to be way less harsh on your paint and easier to care for your paint..
Again myself I stay away from waxes because all they do is mask they don't treat and protect the pores in your paint like a glaze and sealant will protect.
What brand to use depends on you, it's all in the proper prep work before the paint protection is applied and how it is applied that really truly counts, and of course how often you wash and apply paint protection.
Sorry for the length of this but I hope it helps someone!!!
Bob

thanks a lot for the descriptive detail, it sure help me learn something new :smile:

 

[BATMANs]

With all due respect, swirl marks are from a buffing pad wether it be a foam pad or a wool pad! Thats where your misconception is, when you wash a car the wrong way you will scratch your paint wether those scratches are long and straight or in a circular motion......

I own 2 black cars and have a friend who spent 8 hrs on my S2000 and under fluorescent light you could not see any swirls when he was done. After washing it several times i got swirls so you are 100% right. I appreciate your information. I have been detailing my own cars for about a year and on black you learn well since it shows every flaw. What i love about these car forums is when someone like yourself takes the time to try and help. Someone else tells you that you dont know what you are talking about. . This prevents people with real knowledge from wanting to take the time and help and share

One thing that I noticed during my decade+ of black car ownership was that when I pressure-wash and "waxed" with Zaino is that there was virtually no swirl marks. I think it's a combination of the pressure washer taking off more dirt/debris that can scratch the paint while moving the wash mitt or sponge around and the layers of Zaino helped protect the car from being scratched during the washing process. Sorta like a thin dry lubricant.

..... Blacks the toughest but when done right nothing looks better then black..imho....

Amen. I have 2 black cars too and a white truck. In the past I had yet a 3rd black car. When I go to car gatherings the guys that have black cars and can make it look good are the ones that I consider the "black ops (special forces) or detailers. I dun bother getting detailing advice from people with champagne, grey or white color cars.....

 

[stevieray122854]

I just bought Blackfire Wet Diamond for $25 shipped.
http://www.autopia-carcare.com/blackfire-car-care.html
They are having a 25% off on all Blackfire products.
Plus, if you apply this promo code during checkout, you get another 10% off
Promo code: NEWEMAILGUEST

Autopia is OK, the only problem I have with them is that they tend to list everything that every vendor sells, from the crap commercial line stuff all the way to pro-level. Their forum is pretty good, though. They are definitely one of my resources for product.

 

[Sleek]

One thing that I noticed during my decade+ of black car ownership was that when I pressure-wash and "waxed" with Zaino is that there was virtually no swirl marks. I think it's a combination of the pressure washer taking off more dirt/debris that can scratch the paint while moving the wash mitt or sponge around and the layers of Zaino helped protect the car from being scratched during the washing process. Sorta like a thin dry lubricant.

Your 100% correct Batman, Prep is key.... I saw your posts yesterday bout swirls and the Zaino product. I think it was a Camry or a Corolla in the first picture with the swirls, and I think post #13 with the Carrera that had more or less normal spider web scratches.. Those two pictures were what I was explaining in my long post about the differences and types of paint damage.. I wished I would have seen em earlier I would have used em for what I was explaining, and what a bad polish job looks like...They came out good , great job..






Amen. I have 2 black cars too and a white truck. In the past I had yet a 3rd black car. When I go to car gatherings the guys that have black cars and can make it look good are the ones that I consider the "black ops (special forces) or detailers. I dun bother getting detailing advice from people with champagne, grey or white color cars.....

Are you coming to the NSXPO in Denver? I like the Black Ops tag!!

 

[BATMANs]

Are you coming to the NSXPO in Denver? I like the Black Ops tag!!

No plans.

I have the trademark "Black Ops Detailers" :tongue:

 

[RedWings]

i have a 1995 red NSX. I want to bring out the bright red color

I'd caution you from using an aggressive "goop/compound" on your red 1995, too much material removal and you'll end up with a reddish/orange car... unless that has already happened.

There are several threads about this on Prime...

your paintcode for 1995 should be R-77 (it's on the door label)

learn more about your paint on this thread:
http://nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php?t=111605

-
Detailers rule of "least aggressive contact" should be your mantra
-

Also, find a body shop or detail guy that has a paint depth gauge and measure your clearcoat thickness... you don't know what you have, until you measure it, right?

http://www.defelsko.com/applications/paintmeter/automotive-paint-detailing.htm

 

[NSXWayneNZ]

I have not used other waxes available in the States so can only give my thumbs up to the Blackfire products which has given my red NSX and wife's red Boxster a deep shine and long lasting protection. The NSX is under a cover in a garage and after over one year still has the deep shine. The Boxster is outside all the time so the shine only lasts about 6 months. A full polish takes days of work with a rotary buff, a lot of sweat..no short cuts. Recently did a 1966 dark blue Rolls,a black baby Jag. and a 2011 charcol Aston Martin Vantage S. The Jaguar was the wife's car of a customer and who was appalled that someone was using a big noisy grinding machine on her rather clean "baby". At the end of the day the 7 year old car looked like it was off the showroom floor so I made a friend for life. Good products, good basic techniques, clean towels, strong halogen lights, lots of time, sore muscles and a love of your work will bring fantastic results to any paint. Just come back from 3 days at the Tokyo Auto Salon where I always check the polishing level and although the level has improved greatly over the last several years there are almost no cars at the American show level. All pro companies use light weight obital polishers with small pads which only fill in the scratches and don't give the deep rich shine that is possible. Get a heavy Portal Cable, build some muscle, drink some beer and sing to your favorite CD and treat the paint as you would your skin. I believe that the US has the best polishing knowledge base of any country. Thank you America.

 

[etang789]

I use Collinite 915 as wax... It's been holding up great after a year of regular washes on my other car

Here are the products I use for exterior detailing

Menzerna Super Intensive Polish
Menzerna Polish PO85RD
Collinite 915
Lake Country Dual Action CCS 5.5 Inch Foam Pad Kit
Meguiars G220
Meguiars Gold Class Car Wash Shampoo & Conditioner
Meguiars Clay Bar
Meguiars Ultimate Quik Detailer

 

[MuttGrunt]

You can prep concours cars for as long as you want: the majority of swirls are caused by improper washing, not machine use.

Working on Berlina Black is tough because of how soft the clear-coat is on vehicle's like the NSX. Even if properly polished and finished down correctly, it is easy to cause more swirls, scratches, and marring.

EDIT: After reading the full comment, I can only hope no one listens to some of this garbage. If you think the nature of a pure wax is to hide or mask defects, then you're wrong. Some products can hide and conceal defects as some are specifically design to do so. Others do not.
The pours of your paint do not need to breathe in the way you describe. Your paint can expand and contract under heat / cold while being waxed, and it has no affect on hardness of the clear-coat nor its ability to resist defects. Ability to resist defects more comes from things like fumed silica particles and other additives in clear-coat.
I can easily disprove swirls being caused by machine use simply by using Dual Action polishers which do not leave circular marks.

If someone has real questions, please ask, and be very careful where you get your advice from. Listening to the wrong sources can result in you not only mislead you, but keep you from achieving the best results possible.

 

[itrsteve]

You can prep concours cars for as long as you want: the majority of swirls are caused by improper washing, not machine use.

THANK YOU! I'm glad somebody else with a voice of reason chimed in.

 

[rbilder]

i have a 1995 red NSX. I want to bring out the bright red color

I have been very pleased with Zaino Z2-Pro. It was recomended by Batmans.

Initially I clay barred the car. I used a Porter Cable 7424x variable speed orbital polisher (also recommended by Batmans and other detailers), with Z-PC Fusion Dual Action Paint Cleaner Swirl Remover.

After that I have applied the Zaino Z2-Pro and finished it off with the Z8 Grand Finale Spray Seal.

My 91 Formula Red really shines and has done very well at car shows.

Actually at the largest single day car show in the Midwest this past year a couple of older nuns were checking out the cars and asked me what I used to make my car so shiney. I told them, but I'm sure they had never heard of it.

Most times now I just apply it by hand. It looks great. I receive comments all the time on how it shines.

As mentioned there are lots of great products out there.

Another major point I like about Zaino, is that it doesn't leave a residue, or at least that I've noticed like some waxes. I enjoy not having to be super careful not to end up with residue on the rubber moulding or plastic parts.

It has always been easy to appy & doesn't take me long to get it all done.

I don't believe Zaino is technically a wax though and your question was which is the best wax.

 

[GBL1]

I've been researching about waxs and I can't decide what brand is good. I've been using Meguiar's. I want to try other waxes to see if there are any other great brands. I'm thinking of getting the Pinnacle wax or Griot's Best of Show Car Wax. Any wax brand suggestions you guys might have or tried? Give me some of your reviews of your waxs

Mr. Zogs?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr._Zog's_Sex_Wax

 

[BATMANs]

.....I don't believe Zaino is technically a wax though and your question was which is the best wax.

Most people that ask this question don't no the difference or that there was even a difference.

Wax in today's vernacular is more like saying "Google" and "Xerox"

 

[BATMANs]

......a couple of older nuns were checking out the cars and asked me what I used to make my car so shiney.....

I love the compliments from none-car folks and from older and younger people since they have very little knowledge base of what they are looking at and are coming from their gut reaction which I find more real.

 

[synergy004]

I just ordered the full Griots 3inch and 6 inch orbital polishers and polish bottles to go along with my PC buffer by Vector which is the quietest I have used other than Makita and Dewald systems.

Depending on paint using a depth gauge I go through a series of steps. My new ordered arsenal will show on my upcoming project completion within the next couple of weeks. More to follow on steps to have that Concourse look.

 

[xiongb1]

this

YES.. Zaino F.T.W....

-Hand for a quick and shiny result
-Portal Cable for ultimate results with no swirl mark

 

[Sleek]

You can prep concours cars for as long as you want: the majority of swirls are caused by improper washing, not machine use.

Working on Berlina Black is tough because of how soft the clear-coat is on vehicle's like the NSX. Even if properly polished and finished down correctly, it is easy to cause more swirls, scratches, and marring.

EDIT: After reading the full comment, I can only hope no one listens to some of this garbage. If you think the nature of a pure wax is to hide or mask defects, then you're wrong. Some products can hide and conceal defects as some are specifically design to do so. Others do not.
The pours of your paint do not need to breathe in the way you describe. Your paint can expand and contract under heat / cold while being waxed, and it has no affect on hardness of the clear-coat nor its ability to resist defects. Ability to resist defects more comes from things like fumed silica particles and other additives in clear-coat.
I can easily disprove swirls being caused by machine use simply by using Dual Action polishers which do not leave circular marks.

If someone has real questions, please ask, and be very careful where you get your advice from. Listening to the wrong sources can result in you not only mislead you, but keep you from achieving the best results possible.

MUTT,
Here is just a quick search on what I was saying. I'll post some pictures from another prime member exactly showing what I was writing about. Your misunderstanding or lack of pure knowledge of what you are trying to discount from my remarks are clear. I looked at your website looks like you have a good thing going and I wish you success,but before you get on here and spout about what I wrote as not true or as you say "GARBAGE" do some homework and re read what I wrote.
Grumpy2
Re: DOES PAINT HAVE ABSORBENT PORES?
October 29, 2010 12:32PM Registered: 5 years ago
Posts: 641
WWich is why a "clearcoat" is important, as it becomes more "dense" as it cures, to a point.

Any vehicle, painted with todays modern paint systems will still absorb moisture into the paint system.

This is according to technical information I received during my decades of working with the vehicle manufacturers paint suppliers, be it PPG, DuPont, BASF or SherwinWilliams.

A couple of studies showed that the average 2 year old vehicle, with no wax or polymer sealant could absorb up to a pint of water on the horizontal surfaces following a wash or rain event.

This carries any pollutants, IE, acid rain components, for an example down into the clear, where heat and oxygen then do their part to activate, and make the absorbed caustics reactive.

Much as when you spill a small amount of some acids on your cotton clothing, it may show little or no effect until the article of clothing is washed(warm or hot water, surfactants are present) , and then the damage is clearly shown.

This is termed "reactivity", and goes on each day, affecting almost all substrates.

Ozone in metro areas is another culpurit, like in LA, NYC, etc, and hot days, when a vehicle's paint surfaces are hot, some air borne particles are on the paint, a small micro burst showers comes through and produces "water spots", which may actually be "acid rain" deposits.

Anti-corossive resins, such as in a quality polymer/acrylic paint sealant will aid in warding off or reducing such damage, due to the amino-functional qualities of such products, plus their "high fracture point" when subjected to heat.

I wrote a technical article on this several years ago, and was published by a couple of the carwash magazines. The contributing engineers were noted at the end of the article, from Ford, PPG, etc.

Want to actually see the water go into a paint system?

Take any non-clear red vehicle, put a few drops of water on it and observe in a few minutes the presense of a "color change" where the water was placed.

With a few minutes of normal 70 to 90 degree heat, they start to disappear, however a percentage of any contaminates that were present, and liquified, is now down in the red paint systems, waiting for more moisture and some heat to activate their chemical reactivity.
Wait I have more for you..