Beta testing Enthusify as a new Classified Ad platform

[Formula93]

Re: Beta testing Enthusify as a new Marketplace platform

Some of you have expressed concern about the fees. We did a survey of marketplace fees and also consulted with 50 forum owners and 100s of forum members in this and other communities before landing on our fee structure for version 1. As you can see here, between listing fees, optional fees, and final value fees, eBay charges around 10%. (eBay fees) Of course that is 10% that eBay gets and 0% that goes toward investing in and supporting NSXPrime. We found other marketplaces charge even more. Just relying on PayPal has historically not provided the level of buyer protection needed for members of a community like this.

By using the Enthusify plugin, every successful transaction goes toward supporting the costs of running and managing a site like this. For full disclosure, here is a breakdown of the 10%:
~3% goes to credit card processing
~2% goes to Enthusify
~5% goes to NSXPrime

With all due respect, we are not comparing your service to eBay. We are talking about taking a 100% free system which is currently in place here at prime and implementing an option that immediately takes 10% away for fees. At most we are compensating for 3% fees by doing transactions through PayPal.

Now, I see your breakdown includes ~5% that goes to Prime. A lot of members here are expressing that we would rather visit other avenues of donating to NSXPrime that lose a significant portion of our sales in Classifieds.

 

[OneRedNSX]

Re: Beta testing Enthusify as a new Marketplace platform

We Retain a 10% Performance Fee -
Each time you sell an item to a buyer, Enthusify retains a 10% performance fee. Enthusify retains 10% of the sum of the listing price and the shipping price.

Um. You want 10% of the shipping cost? Classically the shipping price has even paid for by the buyer and is not a "profit" in most cases to sellers (I probably break even over time with shipping as a lot of people on here do... We aren't out to make $$ on shipping) Taking 10% of the net is one thing... Taking 10% of the gross is another altogether. Sounds like the 10% number being tossed around is highly misleading...

No thanks...

 

[DocL]

Re: Beta testing Enthusify as a new Marketplace platform

I wouldn't sell a thing here if this is implemented. I'm all for a sponsorship fee and user fee that 100% of it goes to NSX Prime.

I rather list something for sale on Craigslist with a link to it posted on Prime.

I also think that some of the cheapskates here need to step up to the plate.

 

[PHOEN$X]

Re: Beta testing Enthusify as a new Marketplace platform

Wow, some strong sentiments so far. Personally, I wouldn't mind 10% on small (low cost) items. Obviously 10% doesn't make sense for sizable transactions like vehicles, and I would prefer to use alternate means for those.

On a tangent thought, there are things right now that could have a fee instituted to generate revenue to help subsidize the cost of this site. Here a couple that I can think of:

• Username change
• Ability to use free email accounts

 

[synth19]

Re: Beta testing Enthusify as a new Marketplace platform

With all due respect, we are not comparing your service to eBay. We are talking about taking a 100% free system which is currently in place here at prime and implementing an option that immediately takes 10% away for fees. At most we are compensating for 3% fees by doing transactions through PayPal.

Now, I see your breakdown includes ~5% that goes to Prime. A lot of members here are expressing that we would rather visit other avenues of donating to NSXPrime that lose a significant portion of our sales in Classifieds.

Formula93 nailed it. At the most, we're talking about going from 3% to now 10%. There have been plenty of other times where I have never paid any fees because the transactions were local.

The only thing I like about this program is contributing to PRIME. How about we change the classifieds to a "member only" section? You only have access to the classifieds if you are an annual paid member.

 

[Big_D]

Re: Beta testing Enthusify as a new Marketplace platform

How about we change the classifieds to a "member only" section? You only have access to the classifieds if you are an annual paid member.

Bingo...we have a winner.

 

[RYU]

Re: Beta testing Enthusify as a new Marketplace platform

Gents,

I'm currently undecided for I see pros/cons both ways.

The 10% fee structure sounds steep at first but in essence if we break this down it might not be so bad. I'm already paying the 3% with paypal for the peace of mind insurance that service provides. Every single dispute i've had with deadbeat sellers have been properly addressed by the good folks at paypal. I consider that 3% well spent having gone thru the rigors in years past. I think the protection is worth it. With that said, I consider myself a savvy internet backyard shopper. I'm generally pretty good at catching scams and will usually turn down a good deal if something smells fishy. I also take the proper precautions such as wanting to talk/interview the seller over the phone for bit ticket items. In this instance, this fee will punish savvy buyers who already perform their due diligence.

As a seller i'm happy to contribute 5% from each sale towards supporting the site. However, i'm not everybody. There are other members/users who are not like me and will gladly rather post FS ads on their local craigslist or their local NSX FB pages. This will have the impact of further diminishing the nsxprime user base. We know the life blood of a forum is it's user base.

The 2% Enthusify provides.. i'm not quite sure where the added value is yet. (No offense, Chad, for I welcome new vendors always.) I suppose if this service makes it easier to manage the transactions on this site then the 2% can be considered a management fee. OK.. fine but i'll argue 1% is a better starting point. The per transaction amount on NSXprime is typically higher than other car forums though, we likely do less volume in aggregate.

With all that said. I can see why Lud is choosing this route and I appreciate his efforts for championing this effort.

 

[NSX Prime]

Re: Beta testing Enthusify as a new Marketplace platform

Shotgun response to a bunch of issues:

We are talking about taking a 100% free system which is currently in place here at prime and implementing an option that immediately takes 10% away for fees. At most we are compensating for 3% fees by doing transactions through PayPal.

As I stated above, there are in fact substantial costs with the current system, you just may not be seeing them because they are very unevenly distributed. I will write more about that later when I have more time.

Now, I see your breakdown includes ~5% that goes to Prime. A lot of members here are expressing that we would rather visit other avenues of donating to NSXPrime that lose a significant portion of our sales in Classifieds.

Revenue is way down the list of reasons I have been investigating this solution. In fact I have repeatedly suggested to Chad that I would like a way to selectively reduce the site owner's cut in order to reduce seller fees.

As others have suggested, if revenue were my primary motive here I could easily switch the classified so only people who paid could list items for sale. I could even institute a separate fee just to post in the Marketplace. That is trivial to do, but all it does is generate revenue which isn't my primary goal, and doing it in such a way isn't necessarily even in line with my goals, so I don't plan to do it.

On a tangent thought, there are things right now that could have a fee instituted to generate revenue to help subsidize the cost of this site. Here a couple that I can think of:

Worthwhile ideas. I'd like to stay on topic here so I've moved them to another thread: http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php?t=162902

There have been plenty of other times where I have never paid any fees because the transactions were local.

As far as I know there is nothing preventing that under this system. It is not an exclusive venue for selling an item. You can still sell it locally for cash if that makes the most sense to both parties. You'd just message each other than the seller would close out their listing in the system. Nobody is trying to lock you into anything.

I wouldn't sell a thing here if this is implemented.

As I asked above, please state the reason(s) why. The fee? Something else?

Um. You want 10% of the shipping cost? Classically the shipping price has even paid for by the buyer and is not a "profit" in most cases to sellers (I probably break even over time with shipping as a lot of people on here do... We aren't out to make $$ on shipping) Taking 10% of the net is one thing... Taking 10% of the gross is another altogether. Sounds like the 10% number being tossed around is highly misleading...

FWIW, eBay includes shipping in calculating their cut. That certainly doesn't mean you are wrong to dislike it, and I'm ambivalent myself, but I don't really feel it's misleading when the biggest fish in the pond operates the same way.

Thanks for the continued feedback.

Again I'd like to close with the same questions as above:

• Does anyone have concerns other than the fee? What issues would you have if this platform was free?
• Does anyone see value in an automatic escrow service? If so, what do you feel is an appropriate fee structure?
• Does anyone see value in a system where a buyer can make a purchase/payment on the spot and the ad automatically closes?

 

[DRIFTER]

Re: Beta testing Enthusify as a new Marketplace platform

what's wrong with the one we have?

 

[Panjo]

Re: Beta testing Enthusify as a new Marketplace platform

Thanks for the continued input. Again, Lud and I will connect and revisit the fees.

Does anyone have an NSX item for sale? I'd love to hear what you think of the experience of posting an item for sale. How easy is it? How quick is it? What do you like and not like about the workflow of using the marketplace?

You can post an NSX item for sale here.

 

[bngl3rt]

Re: Beta testing Enthusify as a new Marketplace platform

• Does anyone see value in an automatic escrow service? If so, what do you feel is an appropriate fee structure?
• Does anyone see value in a system where a buyer can make a purchase/payment on the spot and the ad automatically closes?

Escrow is good. I think people underestimate the amount of fraud that takes place on this or any forum - I know people have gotten screwed out of a lot of money, they just don't talk readily because it's embarrassing and frustrating. Anything to help reduce that is a win.

And yes, I'd love a "buy it now" feature - waiting for a PM back and not knowing if you should respond to other postings in the mean time is frustrating.

I do agree that 10% (regardless of gross or net) is a little high for big-ticket stuff like vehicles. On a $60,000 car that's a decent chunk of change.

 

[UnhuZ]

Re: Beta testing Enthusify as a new Marketplace platform

Hi,

i think this is a overkill solution.... the marketplace we have works fine... and if the cost are not even (wait for Luds promised post about that) there are other ways to do it for sure.

Don't complicate what is simple... from how it works currently, and as discusses in other thread, the only thing that drives me crazy is edit thing replacing the price (or everything) with "SOLD".

Nuno

 

[RSO 34]

Re: Beta testing Enthusify as a new Marketplace platform

With all due respect, we are not comparing your service to eBay. We are talking about taking a 100% free system which is currently in place here at prime and implementing an option that immediately takes 10% away for fees. At most we are compensating for 3% fees by doing transactions through PayPal.

Now, I see your breakdown includes ~5% that goes to Prime. A lot of members here are expressing that we would rather visit other avenues of donating to NSXPrime that lose a significant portion of our sales in Classifieds.

I notice that you have been enjoying this site for free since last October and just felt it should be pointed out that there has been a way to donate to prime for quite some time now:

http://www.nsxprime.com/members/member_central.htm

Perhaps you can check out this link, especially since you have enjoyed the free advertising:

http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php?t=160993
http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php?t=160998

 

[OneRedNSX]

Re: Beta testing Enthusify as a new Marketplace platform

For a point of reference...

NSX Seller #1: selling a NSX exhaust for $500 + $75 shipping

Ebay takes $51.75
Paypal takes $16.98 (if used)

$68.73 is your ebay / paypal fee. $432.27 is your "profit".

Enthusify takes $57.50 / 28.75 gets donated to Prime. $442.50 is your "profit".

Seller profits by $10.23 to use enthusify

-------

NSX Seller #2: selling a set of 02+ rims for $2000 + $125 shipping

Ebay takes $191.25
Paypal takes $61.93 (if used)

$253.18 is your ebay / paypal fee. $1784.82 is your "profit".

Enthusify takes $212.50 / $106.25 gets donated to Prime. $1787.50 is your "profit".

Seller profits by $2.68 to use enthusify over ebay / paypal


-------

NSX Seller #3: Selling CT Supercharger for $7500 + $65 shipping

Ebay takes $250
Paypal takes $219.69

$469.69 is your ebay / paypal fee. $7030.31 is your "profit".

Enthusify takes 756.50 / $378.25 gets donated to Prime. $6743.50 is your "profit".

Seller loses $286.81 to use enthusify over ebay / paypal


If i had time i would play with excel to get the break-even point...

--------

With the current structure of the marketplace...

Seller #1 ($500 + $75)
Paypal fees: $16.98
Profit: $483.02 (saved ($40.52 on Prime)

Seller #2 ($2000 + $125)
Paypal fees:$61.93
Profit:$1938.07 (saved $150.57 on Prime)

Seller #3 ($7500 + $65)
Paypal fees:$219.69
Profit:$7280.31 (saved $250 on Prime)

 

[lustedp]

Re: Beta testing Enthusify as a new Marketplace platform

Shotgun response to a bunch of issues:

As I stated above, there are in fact substantial costs with the current system, you just may not be seeing them because they are very unevenly distributed. I will write more about that later when I have more time.

Second time in this thread you've stated this. I think it would help the discussion if you explained what you meant by the uneven and invisible cost structure of the current system.

 

[HIJACKER]

Re: Beta testing Enthusify as a new Marketplace platform

The primary reason I have read thus far is the fee. I believe the fee structure can be improved, but keep in mind that nothing is free. The current system has substantial costs, but they are very unevenly distributed.

Based on this, I agree - there is a need for some profit to go to NSXPrime. So, I'm quoting this as reference before I start my opinion.

By using the Enthusify plugin, every successful transaction goes toward supporting the costs of running and managing a site like this. For full disclosure, here is a breakdown of the 10%:
~3% goes to credit card processing
~2% goes to Enthusify
~5% goes to NSXPrime

I think this fee structure would be SOMEWHAT reasonable based on this analysis:

With the current structure of the marketplace...

Seller #1 ($500 + $75)
Paypal fees: $16.98
Profit: $483.02 (saved ($40.52 on Prime)

Seller #2 ($2000 + $125)
Paypal fees:$61.93
Profit:$1938.07 (saved $150.57 on Prime)

Seller #3 ($7500 + $65)
Paypal fees:$219.69
Profit:$7280.31 (saved $250 on Prime)

However, taking Synth's idea...

How about we change the classifieds to a "member only" section? You only have access to the classifieds if you are an annual paid member.

I would suggest removing the 5% NSXPrime fee that's attached for members. In which case, the marketplace would only become available to subscription members removing the ability for non-members to POST ads, yet - everyone can still view them to purchase.

I don't use eBay because the fees are atrocious. PayPal is already enough, and Craigslist I find irritating because 95% of the replies I receive is typical Nigerian spam.

I'm assuming the 3% credit card processing is using a service that's outside of PayPal? What happens if buyers still want to use PayPal? Does that PP fee add in addition, or replace that 3% fee since that service is no longer used? I'm not clear on that.

Also, I feel the Enthusify fee should be reduced to either 0.5% or 1%. 2% is a bit much when you start adding in other fees, and the 5% NSXPrime fee I think is WAY too much.

 

[DRIFTER]

Re: Beta testing Enthusify as a new Marketplace platform

Just an option but you could charge for early bumps or buy temporary gold status to keep your FS post at the top while other people that don't pay extra can only bump every 30-60 days. This works great for www.PBnation.com. Its still free but people that are willing to pay extra get there adds keep at the top.

Charging 10% wont Fly with the general pop. I think it will decrease the traffic considerably to your site. Lowering you add sales.

I know I check the FS section daily. I know If less stuff is for sale It would decrease my usage of the site. I also don't like the format. I like the pictures without actually clicking on the link option but the format of the original FS section is much more user friendly. +14 day buffer on your money is BS. Even paypal will get you your money with in 2 days if you have a checking account linked to it.

What issue are you trying to fix with this? More income for prime? You would be better off attaching a fee to posting an add then using this system if thats the case. Its still going to cut its usage.

 

[N Spec]

Re: Beta testing Enthusify as a new Marketplace platform

So far from a quick read, buyers and sellers will find a way around this. People do this all the time with expensive listings on ebay. At first glance, it appears that Enthusify wants to rival Paypal, but really it seems that they just want to pad the process and really are trying to accomplish what ebay fails at. Except ebay is world renown and they reach a far greater amount of people than Enthusify will ever hope to by working with just enthusiast market sites. I would say it is almost unanimous that everyone on here is against this move, as the majority of Primers are well informed.

That 10% fee is steep considering many NSX parts are rather expensive. You can't go from free to list with possible 3% with added insurance/protection/convenience and then jack it up by over 230%! What is the 7% difference in fees going to equate to as far as value? Paypal's 3% has proven to be very modest, fair and beneficial for both sellers and buyers. Google also offers competitive alternatives. What is going to stop me or the seller from contacting each other outside the process and just use paypal or a mailed check?

I would implore you not to be seduced by the enthusiastic sales pitch that Enthusify has laid upon you. I have respect for Enthusify trying to find a way to start a new company. However, I will call it how I see it. Enthusify is trying to ride on a coattail and sell fluff by forming a coalition with site owners/admins. This is rampant in sales in general and it is what it is, but it only works on the general public, not with well informed consumers. Most car enthusiast sites are generally only filled with informed consumers and it is especially true for NSX owners.

I would say at most, advertise for Enthusify and try to get people to use it since it will support Prime and Enthusify, but don't make it mandatory. The majority of the buyers will find other ways if it becomes a reality and you will find that Enthusify will either have to adapt or die. Ebay makes a living by selling mass volumes of "made-in-China" everyday items for $20+- because 10% will not affect much at this range. They don't get much money from higher end, specialized listings, which NSXPrime or any enthusiast site would be doing. The only way Enthusify would flourish is if they could convince the majority of site owners to convert and if they can do that it, hats off to you - you have a substantial control over the market. This however would be unlikely, because the competition is always strong. You may even see a new NSX Forum launch as a reaction to this because you pissed enough people off.

I really do like the current rules of the Classifieds, no comments and 1 month bumps. This keeps the forum cleaner and easy to peruse. Sellers only hurt the classifieds by:

*not providing good images of the product
*not elaborating enough about the condition or particular item
*not listing multiple forms of contact - PMs are not always reliable
*erasing prices when sold to help establish the market.

I would rather you charge a small flat fee per thread listed in parts (or limit x numbers of post per month or you must pay a fee), cars-for-sale or just leave the system as is and find other ways to generate revenue. I would suggest charging for file storage of images. Many members here still do not know how to use a 3rd party image site to post large pics, so if you can find a very simple and easy to use system, you would help new members and yourself. Make it so that sellers MUST post images for NSX parts or cars for sale and if they don't know how, guess what, "I have this easy-to-use integrated system to help you for a modest fee."

Let's face it, we get on Prime to look at NSX pics or videos all day. That is the main attraction of this site and where some opportunities may lie.

 

[RedWings]

Re: Beta testing Enthusify as a new Marketplace platform

I agree

If funds are needed lets do it in-house.
We all benefit from this site one way or another.

Yea if its just a matter of funding Prime lets have that discussion

I am fine with the marketplace as is and prefer the limited audience of fellow Primers for sellng or purchase, even though some bad apples sometimes make it into the sauce

Originally Posted by synth19
How about we change the classifieds to a "member only" section? You only have access to the classifieds if you are an annual paid member.

I'd be okay with that too...

 

[comtec]

Re: Beta testing Enthusify as a new Marketplace platform

Just looks like a lot of fluff to me that will make it more complicated to navigate. Yeah, it's fancy looking like a store but the basic text lines of the present marketplace make it easy to navigate because it's one section. We don't have enough items to split them up in the different categories like the example. I would rather not have to click through various pages just to see there is nothing i want.

What service are they providing, just the store front and CC processing that they are already charging for? I see the 14 day protection but that is not very long.

I don't know who these guys are so i wouldn't give them my CC information. I never trust anyone that doesn't provide a street address on their website especially when they are doing this sort of buisness. I could have missed it but i didn't see anything but phone and email.

Lots of great features for members are forthcoming. We plan to provide a way to promote your listings across the whole site and not just have them isolated in a classifieds section. We plan to provide more layout and design options for your listing. We plan to provide more selling formats. We plan to provide seller profile pages. and much more. You can check out the product roadmap here: https://enthusify.uservoice.com/forums/163512-product-roadmap

More fluff that will ruin the rest of the site.


Mike

 

[HIJACKER]

Re: Beta testing Enthusify as a new Marketplace platform

I don't know who these guys are so i wouldn't give them my CC information. I never trust anyone that doesn't provide a street address on their website especially when they are doing this sort of buisness. I could have missed it but i didn't see anything but phone and email.

Good point. I did some quick looking up:

Registrant:
Interactive Innovation Group, LLC
413 W Channel Rd
Santa Monica, CA 90402
US

Registrar: DOTSTER_HRS
Domain Name: ENTHUSIFY.COM
Created on: 31-JAN-12
Expires on: 31-JAN-13
Last Updated on: 29-FEB-12

Administrative, Technical Contact:
Billmyer, Chad
Interactive Innovation Group, LLC
413 W Channel Rd
Santa Monica, CA 90402
US
310-454-3023

http://www.formds.com/issuers/interactive-innovation-group-inc
https://www.facebook.com/chadbillmyer
http://www.linkedin.com/in/chadbillmyer
http://chadbillmyer.com/Chad_Billmyer/Home.html

 

[HIJACKER]

Re: Beta testing Enthusify as a new Marketplace platform

We did a survey of marketplace fees and also consulted with 50 forum owners and 100s of forum members in this and other communities before landing on our fee structure for version 1.

Hi.

Could you please publish the results of this study as a PDF for us to view? Also, could you please outline the other forums that are currently using Enthusify?

 

[KazO]

Re: Beta testing Enthusify as a new Marketplace platform

I'm in agreement with N Spec and DRIFTER's latest comments in particular. There are issues with the current system, but they're pretty easily surmountable. Comparing this to eBay is completely wrong. I've been an eBay user for a LONG time and the fees, though not cheap (and I'm particularly unhappy about a couple of specific things) are offset by the breadth of features and exposure, neither of which isn't necessary within the admittedly narrow scope of the NSX market, which Prime can't afford (quite literally, I'm surmising) to alienate.

There seem to be plenty of ideas on how to use (and improve) the classifieds to help fund Prime in other ways. Another idea I thought of is to have some sort of tiered setup to allow a (very?) low volume of free/cheaper listings for occasional sellers and higher rates for vendors and higher-volume folks, with some sort of way to limit circumvention through bundling a buncha items in one listing.

 

[type-j]

I like the current system but I would agree that it should just be paid members allowed to sell just like how it is on s2ki.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

 

[gabedm]

Re: Beta testing Enthusify as a new Marketplace platform

You may even see a new NSX Forum launch as a reaction to this because you pissed enough people off.

You may even see a new NSX Forum launch as a reaction to this because you pissed enough people off.

You may even see a new NSX Forum launch as a reaction to this because you pissed enough people off.

You may even see a new NSX Forum launch as a reaction to this because you pissed enough people off.

You may even see a new NSX Forum launch as a reaction to this because you pissed enough people off.

Charge a 'Premium Member Fee" of $10-30 a yr to post in the market place and have access to private forums. ANOTHER way to do this is make the "NSX Build" forum PREMIUM MEMBER ONLY. That way people who dont even wanna buy and sell and just wanna check builds will pay too.

You out your damn mind if you think I am going to give you 10% of my sales (which per transaction could be over $300, based on how expensive some sales are here).

Dont be stupid.