You’re probably sadly right. Prime is far different than it was 17 years ago. There are similarities between 2001 Prime web and the current Prime Facebook—that I really enjoy.
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Dealers combing their dusty databases to try to move 2018 cars
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You’re probably sadly right. Prime is far different than it was 17 years ago. There are similarities between 2001 Prime web and the current Prime Facebook—that I really enjoy.
Acura could do a smaller focus group in Torrence with the SoCal owners very easily.
Sadly the NSX doesn't do anything better than any of its competitors. Yes it's fast but most cars approaching 200K are mid to high 10s in the quarter mile. The NSX starts to lose steam up top. Most people the can afford these cars care about the numbers.
I've said it before the one thing the car MAY have over its competitors is Honda reliability. But that won't be apparent for years. Most people in this income bracket obviously don't care about reliability otherwise McLaren, Audi, Lambo etc wouldn't be moving units.
The NSX will appeal mainly to guys like me. Guys who can only afford one "supercar" and want to drive the daylights out of it and not worry about a 30,000 dollar transmission repair or 900 dollar oil change.
MC
fastaussie
Suspended
i was agreeing with you mate, sorry if it didn't come through that way, it wasn't a dig at you. a lot of people on here and other places have stated that Honda should've listened a little better to the potential customers who wanted to buy a new NSX, and built it more to suit.
bottom line. whichever demographic they were targeting, with the huge backlog of 2017 cars and $60k off fire sales last year, and with selling 5 cars last month, they obviously didn't cater to the desires of their potential buyer...
these days the NSX doesn't have a perceivable reliability advantage over other brands. nothing like the 1st NSX in the early 90's. any new Lamborghini, Ferrari, and especially Audi are every bit as reliable as the new NSX. while being faster and more prestigious also. and your grandma could just as easily drive any of them down to the old folks home...
fastaussie,
You are right the advantage of reliability is marginal anymore for Lambo & Ferrari have certainly upped their game since the early 80-early 90's. I fear that the NSX is too new to adequately say that it is reliable (there are already posts regarding windshield issues and side window wind noise). Interestingly, I recently had a nice discussion with a NSX tech who did an oil change on a Gen2 NSX. He wasn't too enthusiastic about the complexity of the multiple drain points. From what he described, it is harder to change the oil in a NSX than on my Ferrari (both have a dry sump)!
Also, in comparison to the other available cars, the NSX isn't "special" enough. Many of us that have a Gen1 NSX recognize how special that car is but the Gen2 doesn't seem to inspire the same level of emotion as the 1st Gen. All the advanced drivetrain technology (hybrid and AWD) seem to do little to make the car perform significantly better than cars lacking such tech.
Regarding surveys and focus group, Acura did send out two separate surveys to potential buyers (such as myself) sometime after showing the prototype at the autoshow (2012). From what I recall from the surveys, a number of the elements asked did (or did not) seem to make it into production (ie. availability of non-power seats, number of cup holders, lack of parking assist tech), unfortunately, some elements that folks don't care about made it into the car (AWD, hybrid drivetrain). With a total sales of FIVE for the month of April, I think the market is speaking. They don't care for the car. They are taking their money elsewhere. We can all bemoan what could-a or should-a been done. Many comments are probably correct. Sadly, the truth is Acura will do little to improve the car. They will probably offer a few different colors, a couple of trim changes, maybe bump the power 5-10HP. That's about it. Also, talk of a targa/hard-top convertible improving sales seems limited. I can't imagine that it would improve sales by much.
You are right the advantage of reliability is marginal anymore for Lambo & Ferrari have certainly upped their game since the early 80-early 90's. I fear that the NSX is too new to adequately say that it is reliable (there are already posts regarding windshield issues and side window wind noise). Interestingly, I recently had a nice discussion with a NSX tech who did an oil change on a Gen2 NSX. He wasn't too enthusiastic about the complexity of the multiple drain points. From what he described, it is harder to change the oil in a NSX than on my Ferrari (both have a dry sump)!
Also, in comparison to the other available cars, the NSX isn't "special" enough. Many of us that have a Gen1 NSX recognize how special that car is but the Gen2 doesn't seem to inspire the same level of emotion as the 1st Gen. All the advanced drivetrain technology (hybrid and AWD) seem to do little to make the car perform significantly better than cars lacking such tech.
Regarding surveys and focus group, Acura did send out two separate surveys to potential buyers (such as myself) sometime after showing the prototype at the autoshow (2012). From what I recall from the surveys, a number of the elements asked did (or did not) seem to make it into production (ie. availability of non-power seats, number of cup holders, lack of parking assist tech), unfortunately, some elements that folks don't care about made it into the car (AWD, hybrid drivetrain). With a total sales of FIVE for the month of April, I think the market is speaking. They don't care for the car. They are taking their money elsewhere. We can all bemoan what could-a or should-a been done. Many comments are probably correct. Sadly, the truth is Acura will do little to improve the car. They will probably offer a few different colors, a couple of trim changes, maybe bump the power 5-10HP. That's about it. Also, talk of a targa/hard-top convertible improving sales seems limited. I can't imagine that it would improve sales by much.
As a previous Gen1 owner and now a Gen2 owner much of what has been said already is arguably the truth. But there is one thing that no one has even touched the subject about: Customer Service. Here's my personal experience with Acura since 1999.
With the Gen1, Acura would host owners at the big races with beautiful corrals and events for us. At a Sebring 12hr a few times, they had Honda engineers, corporate big wigs, drivers, and catering for us all day. We had great parking and they went out of their way to host us. This past year at the Daytona 24hr race, it was the race teams who invited us to their pits. Acura had a parking area for us outside the track with a full line of their current cars on display. That's it. Not even a cooler with cold water. No one to shuttle us from the parking lot to the infield which was a hike. They wanted Gen2 owners to show off the car, but they did noting to promote the product. Acura failed big time on hospitality. Shame on you.
Next, even though the service on the car is excellent at the dealership, they don't know how to treat their upper echelon customers. There is a playbook that each service department has, and it even states which specific model should be loaned. The loaners I have been given have been a base model ILX, and a base RDX. Once again, shame on you Acura.
As I see it, the common denominator here is failure at the top of Acura corporate. Not only did they not know what the segment wanted, but they don't know how to treat that segment. I could have gotten any car in the price range of the NSX, however I didn't want anything else. Acura needs to realize they can't enter the supercar segment when they don't know how to cater to this segment.
The car is great, but unfortunately I don't see it being in production for more than another year or two unless they learn more about their customer base.
With the Gen1, Acura would host owners at the big races with beautiful corrals and events for us. At a Sebring 12hr a few times, they had Honda engineers, corporate big wigs, drivers, and catering for us all day. We had great parking and they went out of their way to host us. This past year at the Daytona 24hr race, it was the race teams who invited us to their pits. Acura had a parking area for us outside the track with a full line of their current cars on display. That's it. Not even a cooler with cold water. No one to shuttle us from the parking lot to the infield which was a hike. They wanted Gen2 owners to show off the car, but they did noting to promote the product. Acura failed big time on hospitality. Shame on you.
Next, even though the service on the car is excellent at the dealership, they don't know how to treat their upper echelon customers. There is a playbook that each service department has, and it even states which specific model should be loaned. The loaners I have been given have been a base model ILX, and a base RDX. Once again, shame on you Acura.
As I see it, the common denominator here is failure at the top of Acura corporate. Not only did they not know what the segment wanted, but they don't know how to treat that segment. I could have gotten any car in the price range of the NSX, however I didn't want anything else. Acura needs to realize they can't enter the supercar segment when they don't know how to cater to this segment.
The car is great, but unfortunately I don't see it being in production for more than another year or two unless they learn more about their customer base.
With only 5 sales in April, it's hard to know what the future of the NSX is...... Acura/Honda seems to be in a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. If they throw in the towel, they admit failure, and if they continue to sell 5 cars per month, then they will most likely add to the massive losses they have already incurred. This is most certainly a "halo" car, which was likely never thought of as a profit center, but a means to gain exposure for Acura, and show the world what Acura could achieve. But, if the car is not delivering the magazine front cover exposure that a halo car is supposed to provide, then what's the point in continuing to take massive losses? As said above, it's a GREAT car, different, unique, and certainly not for everyone, and even with it's faults, it is still a great car, and I'm thankful I have had the opportunity to own one. I bought mine knowing I could lose my ass on depreciation, but decided to risk it, and live in the moment..... With the rebate and dealer discounts it was at the upper limit of what I could afford, as I could not have afforded to own and maintain any of the "badge" cars. The NSX has a lot going for it. Low production, great looks and great performance. Only time will determine it's fate. And I do agree that most of the blame falls on Acura for their lousy marketing. It is a great but misunderstood car. So many people who have denigrated the car have never driven it. It's one of those things that you have to drive it to understand it. It's difficult to explain the car to people, but I just tell them, that in just a few seconds, you will fully understand what it's about......
fastaussie
Suspended
you are right, most people who may denigrate the car haven't driven the NSX. they get their information from the car media, some/most of which to be truthful weren't overly impressed with it. and that's fair, this is after all what the car magazines, online and print, exist for. to contrast and compare. so that people who do not have the means to do so can read about it and formulate their opinions and make an informed purchasing decision.
and herein lies the problem. first of all, let's be absolutely clear on one thing. the NSX is a very good car, it is fantastic to drive. this is not in question nor debatable. i do believe the biggest problem for the NSX is simply its current competition. the other Supercars (R8, Huracan's, 570S, 911's, 458, AMG GTR, etc.) are also simply magnificent. unfortunately for the NSX, most of them are more impressive in the performance department, and that is the sole biggest area in which cars like this are judged.
i have personally driven the NSX myself, several times. on road and track. sedate and in anger. i fully understand what its about. it is a very capable car, very fast, handles well, has super futuristic tech, etc. all working seamlessly in perfect harmony to propel it round corners and down straightaways with ease and at high velocity like no one's business. and if you never drove any of the other offerings, you would never want for more. you would think it's the best thing ever made. until, you drive something better. and unfortunately, there are better performing Supercars in the same cross-shopping range. and all of them don't have the fancy futuristic, mini-Hypercar tech. we've all heard people say, "what's the point of the fancy Hybrid stuff when it's heavier and slower than the old dinosaur burning V10's"? which honestly, is a valid question.
i hear a lot of people throwing shade at people who put down the NSX without having driven it. but i also hear a lot of shade chucked the other way, by NSX owners and loyalists who've never driven any of the competition. so until someone has driven them all, they have no frame of reference whatsoever to how any car stacks up to another. Acura definitely did a lot of stupid shit with the development, advertising and roll out of this car, absolutely no doubt. but you can't fully blame them for the lack of success of the new NSX along those lines. they simply didn't build a Supercar the masses are enamored with...
In a rare event, I actually agree with DocL on something. Acura really has dropped the ball on customer care / customer experience. When you are buying a $150,000 + car, you want more than just a 'great car'. You want an entire buying experience, and (possibly more vital) an exceptional after sale experience. This involves owner events and 'pampering' to keep the excitement and interest, recognition at the dealer level that the NSX customer should be granted more of a 'white glove' treatment that is different than the person who brought in their 200,000 mile Integra, and just the common sense that when you spend more money on a car than many people spend on a house, there are certain expectations that go with that by the purchaser.
I was in the focus group meeting in 2012 in Detroit when the car was unveiled, and put down a deposit soon after. It would have been great to buy one, but at this point I think I may have dodged a bullet on being disappointed by the buying / owning experience, and not so much being disappointed by the car. The Mercedes CLK63 AMG Black Series I bought instead of the NSX came with a much better dealer and ownership experience. Mercedes loves their AMG customers, new and old, and is constantly doing things to appreciate and excite them. Acura could learn a thing or two from Mercedes on this.
I was in the focus group meeting in 2012 in Detroit when the car was unveiled, and put down a deposit soon after. It would have been great to buy one, but at this point I think I may have dodged a bullet on being disappointed by the buying / owning experience, and not so much being disappointed by the car. The Mercedes CLK63 AMG Black Series I bought instead of the NSX came with a much better dealer and ownership experience. Mercedes loves their AMG customers, new and old, and is constantly doing things to appreciate and excite them. Acura could learn a thing or two from Mercedes on this.
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Doc, the NSX Factory in Ohio is small, its bigger than the Refresh centre in Japan (if you recall), but is way smaller than a normal (Eg civic) factory. I can't see them building another model at this facility. However, with 5 cars a month being sold, I think a small volume sport car can be made at this facility....who knows
Bram
The NSX is the greatest supercar I have ever driven....... But, it is also the only supercar I have ever driven. So I will not be a hypocrite and say that it is the best of all supercars, since I have not driven them to compare. I'm sure there are cars that are faster or better, but for now, the NSX checks all of my boxes. It does have a flaw or two, but overall, I'm happy with my purchase. When I'm doing full throttle accelerations, it's hard to fathom needing more horsepower..... I know there are faster cars, and perhaps better cars, but for the $140K I paid for mine, we're comparing to cars that are $50-100K+ more expensive. The rebate and dealer discounts allowed me to afford to buy the car, and otherwise, I would have never entered the supercar market. I don't really have a need or interest to drive or find another car, and I do realize that were I to drive a 570, GT3-R, Lambo, Ferrari, etc., that I may find that the NSX is a dog comparatively speaking..... but probably not. I'm good to go for now. And even if I felt those other cars were better, I couldn't afford them anyway, so I will "settle" for my NSX...... The other factor in my purchase was cost of ownership and perceived reliability. Owning the "other" supercars would be 2-3x more expensive to own....... and the NSX is expensive enough as it is. For me, the buying experience was easy. I discovered the car existed, thought it was fabulous, did hours and hours of research, and bought one in 2 weeks after I discovered it. Reading the story above about going to a focus meeting in 2012 and putting down a deposit makes me understand how many guys could have developed disdain for Acura..... They should never have accepted deposits and given promises they can't keep....... The NSX could have been many things, but it is what it is, take it or leave it. The market is flooded with cars with 450+ HP. It's a small pool of buyers who can afford the luxury of a supercar. It will be interesting to see how it all unfolds over time......
In terms of customer care/service/marketing, I think they dropped the ball by charging $4k for a factory tour for owners who bought a 2017. It should have been exclusive enough for Acura marketing to know they had a niche ownership base that anyone who bought one new (not resales) should have been given a VIP tour for free. If you wanted track time then add a $500 cost for that experience in Ohio but if I'm buying an Acura that tops out at $200k and Acura has never offered anything in that price range before I should be treated like a VIP and given a free tour and not charged another $4k.
Road and Track - Why Acura Only Sold Five NSXes in the US Last Month
sorry if already posted:
https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/a20134523/acura-nsx-april-2018-sales/
Why Acura Only Sold Five NSXes in the US Last Month
It's not because no one wants this mid-engine hybrid supercar
Earlier this week, a Reddit user noted Acura only sold five NSXes in the US last month. It's not unusual to see low volumes with a $150,000-plus supercar, but five? That seemed far too low for our 2017 Performance Car of the Year. So, we reached out to an Acura spokesman to find out what was up.
The NSX's low US sales for April was the result of a confluence of a few things. First, Acura sold lots of NSXes at the end of 2017, as dealers cleared out showroom inventory used for marketing. Per auto-sales data aggregator Good Car Bad Car, the NSX had its second and third best US months in October and November 2017, with 87 and 83 sold, respectively. As a result, inventory for 2018 NSXes has been limited—a quick search on Cars.com reveals just nineon dealer lots at the time of writing.
The spokesman also told us a lot of customers are placing custom orders for NSXes, which is common for cars in this price bracket. Those custom-ordered NSXes won't be built for a few more months. And finally, the spokesperson told us NSX exports were "relatively high" for the month of April.
So, while the NSX did have its worst US sales month ever in April, it's not all doom and gloom for Acura's supercar. Plus, sales could increase further still if the rumors are true and Acura builds convertible and Type R variants of the NSX. We'll see in the coming months.
sorry if already posted:
https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/a20134523/acura-nsx-april-2018-sales/
Why Acura Only Sold Five NSXes in the US Last Month
It's not because no one wants this mid-engine hybrid supercar
Earlier this week, a Reddit user noted Acura only sold five NSXes in the US last month. It's not unusual to see low volumes with a $150,000-plus supercar, but five? That seemed far too low for our 2017 Performance Car of the Year. So, we reached out to an Acura spokesman to find out what was up.
The NSX's low US sales for April was the result of a confluence of a few things. First, Acura sold lots of NSXes at the end of 2017, as dealers cleared out showroom inventory used for marketing. Per auto-sales data aggregator Good Car Bad Car, the NSX had its second and third best US months in October and November 2017, with 87 and 83 sold, respectively. As a result, inventory for 2018 NSXes has been limited—a quick search on Cars.com reveals just nineon dealer lots at the time of writing.
The spokesman also told us a lot of customers are placing custom orders for NSXes, which is common for cars in this price bracket. Those custom-ordered NSXes won't be built for a few more months. And finally, the spokesperson told us NSX exports were "relatively high" for the month of April.
So, while the NSX did have its worst US sales month ever in April, it's not all doom and gloom for Acura's supercar. Plus, sales could increase further still if the rumors are true and Acura builds convertible and Type R variants of the NSX. We'll see in the coming months.
Thank you for sharing that!
But that continues to ignore the white elephant in the room - pricing and marketing snafus.
The sales are abysmal now because of the uptick in inventory clearance resulting from fire sale incentives. When the incentives disappeared and inventory was cleared out, cars now had to be ordered by the ultimate customer at full price and they have not been ordered. The incentives ended months ago so a factory that is otherwise idle would have been able to produce more than 5 units in April had there been existing orders.
Orders at the factory are filled through August. If I wanted to order a car for my inventory we wouldn't get it till September. My guess is they have slowed production down drastically which is why there is still a wait for orders to be built.
Exactly how I felt even though the sales mgr mistakenly told me the tour would be free to me for buying the car. I'm not even sure I would have taken them up on the free offer of factory tour but paying for that is not something I would consider. Even though I may not be their initial target for being a purchaser I did purchase one and also still own a 1st gen nsx for 18 years
It's a bargain compared to Ferrari stuff I used to buy. $20 for a hat vs $50+.
I rarely perform acceleration runs as I live right next to switchbacks and those are more fun. Perceived reliability is my main choice for buying the car as it wasn't based on looks although it is slowly growing on me. I really like my choice now that it is more exclusive due to low sales. It's nice not seeing another nsx x times a day and when you do you know that the other guy bought it to enjoy and not as a status symbol. My wife loves 911 turbo cabs more and I'll eventually buy another one (used) but the 911 seems more like a participation medal type car.. you get one once you are successful because thats what you do. I don't approach other porsche car owners because I can't even be sure they know or even like cars but I see an nsx and I'm going to try to find and talk to you
I tried calling the NSX Account Specialist line the other day... no answer and it kicked to the generic help line. Classy.
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