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Group buy for custom leather seats

KGP said:
I am going to take a guess at this. Not that I'm a leather expert or something, by I have been given a basic understanding once or twice. I suspect that the leather used for our new seat covers is top grain, which if a remember correctly means that it has not had to be treated in any way to remove imperfections from the hide such as barbwire marks. While the leather could be treated to remove to grain (personal preference), I suspect it is high enough quality that it need not be done. That's my guess, and I'm sticking to it because it makes me feel better about my purchase. :D Seriously though. I'd like to hear from someone else that might have a good handle on it.

Discalimer - I'm not in the least bit an expert on this, but I'll share what Steven , the president of Northwest told me. This is top grain leather and not split leather. Top grain, as KGP indicated in his subsequent post, is the top layer of the cowhide. In the US, we use barb wire to keep the cattle contained. Yes I know this because I live in Oklahoma:D Cows brush up against fences and get cut, so what you see oftentimes on leather that might look imperfect is simply nature's work on thier hide. Split grain is the subsequent layers on the cowhide that are inferior to top grain in quality and consistiency - typical GM type leather. Split grain leather is typlically used for steering wheels, door panels, and accessory leather.

Steven told me that they take this leather and run it through a "roller" to produce a consistent, embossed grain pattern on the hides. The "roller" as he explained is similar in type to the old rollers that they used to use to wring out water from clothes, or similarly the ones at the car wash that you can run your chamois through.
 
Does anybody else out there have any high-res pics of thier new covers that shows the magnitude of the grain issue?
 
Just for my worry wart friends... ;)

For two high resolution images of what is shown bellow, go here and here.
 

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People have described top grain correctly, but that's my point. These were not left with their natural grain, which is typically very little and anything but uniform, and instead are stamped with phony gain. Look at your original seats, even newer ones rarely sat in, and you will see very little "fine" texture but a variety of large random imperfections. That's natural grain. Look at the photos posted by KGP and the even stamped grain is extremely visible.

Shame on me for not asking, but I was told they were OEM copies with top grain leather and didn‘t expect it to be stamped . :( But his is a matter of personal taste and I'm not slamming their product.

Edit: Looking at the hi-res pics the grain doesn’t really look stamped, at least if it is the variation is surprising. Hmmm... I've bought a lot of raw and treated leather over the years but that doesn't make me an expert. Is this really a natural texture an I always buy cut and/or treated to get the smooth finish?
 
Has anyone actually looked at any newer Mercedes seats to see if in fact this is the same stuff? I agree with sjs, but I'll still take the deal. While I would prefer no phony grain, it's not a deal breaker to me.

By the way folks. The photos I took REALLY make the grain stand out. When holding the same headrest next to the image, the grain in the image stand outs quite a bit more. sjs, take out you headrest cover and see if you concur.
 
Grain

Hey, I don't mind the "grain!" It reminds me I'm sitting on fine leather seats and maybe will help the conditioner soak in a bit more easily! :D

Earlier in this thread the head man at NW gave a very good explanation of the leather quality, how it's treated and dyed, etc.

Don
 
Following closer inspection of the actual pieces with a loupe I would say that it is definitely artificial grain. Personally I've never seen a freshly shaven cow so I don't know how the surface texture of the hide looks, but the peaks and valleys are so sharp and clean that it must be stamped. Frankly I don't know how that reminds you that you are sitting on fine leather. :confused: Again, it may suit most people but it isn't what I wanted.
 
sjs said:
Following closer inspection of the actual pieces with a loupe I would say that it is definitely artificial grain. Personally I've never seen a freshly shaven cow so I don't know how the surface texture of the hide looks, but the peaks and valleys are so sharp and clean that it must be stamped. Frankly I don't know how that reminds you that you are sitting on fine leather. :confused: Again, it may suit most people but it isn't what I wanted.

You are obviously not happy with what you received. Have you contacted the seller on your concerns?

We were told it was at minimum OEM quality. Is this not true?
 
NetViper said:

We were told it was at minimum OEM quality. Is this not true?
Having the grain does not mean the leather is not as good, or better quality than OEM.
 
KGP said:
Having the grain does not mean the leather is not as good, or better quality than OEM.

I dont know. That is why I am asking the question gene! :)
 
NetViper said:
I dont know. That is why I am asking the question gene! :)
Yes, I realize that. But if the replacements are top grain, then they are at least as good a quality material as the OEM's. I suspect much better, but I don't know the treatments done to OEM, nor whether it is split hide.

Damn it, Steve! Look what you started with your grain comment. :D
 
KGP said:
...Damn it, Steve! Look what you started with your grain comment. :D

Trust me, I debated for several days as to whether I should post publicly, and have tried to be careful in what I say. But the next potential buyer needs to know. They are of good quality. Better than OEM? I don't know. I'm sure that just as there are different grades of the same cut of beef there are differences in top grain leather. Not to mention quality means different things to different people. One measure is how long it looks good and how much care it requites to stay nice. We won't know that for a long time. Another is feel and suppleness. Off the seats I'm not real thrilled with these, in part because of how the grain feels. It also feels a bit stiff, but that's probably the backing/lining.

No I have not spoken with them about it. I ordered them and I can't say they failed to deliver on anything they promised. For now I'll either save them for the time when I sell a car or I'll sell them to someone else. I just haven't decided, but it is no great drama either way.
 
Got mine and they are installed. I like them very much.
They are not the type of fine leather you get in Jaguars, which I think has the best leather, but the look, feel and odor of this product is like what is found in a newer Benz. The patina and grain are different than OEM but, they have stated throughout that the quality was similiar to a Benz, a very apt description, and I understood and accepted that from the get go. The price for this quality is excellent and am very satisfied.
 
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pbassjo said:
Got mine and they are installed. I like them very much.
They are not the type of fine leather you get in Jaguars, which I think has the best leather, but the look, feel and odor of this product is like what is found in a newer Benz. The patina and grain are different than OEM but, they have stated throughout that the quality was similiar to a Benz, a very apt description, and I understood and accepted that from the get go. The price for this quality is excellent and am very satisfied.

Can you post some pics of the installed seats?
 
I'm surprised at how staggard the delivery of these has been. I figured on bulk shipping, but that does not seem to be the case. Or am I just being impatient.
 
pbassjo said:
...they have stated throughout that the quality was similiar to a Benz, a very apt description, and I understood and accepted that from the get go.

If I were the sensitive sort I would think that statement suggests I or others here have said otherwise, but we have not. "Quality similar to a Benz" is not a description of the grain or finish. The only complaint is that some of us expected them to look like OEM but be of equal or better quality. We were mistaken.
 
Shipping

I spoke with Steven,
The shipments will be going out Monday. except for the 3 guys that ordered late. So it is shipped out in bulk, in stages.

Steven also, said,if you take out the portion that is tucked in the headrest, you will see that it is grainy as well.

He wishes that in a year after you condition your leather, you all give him a call or email him your concerns.

-Val
 
sjs said:
If I were the sensitive sort I would think that statement suggests I or others here have said otherwise, but we have not. "Quality similar to a Benz" is not a description of the grain or finish. The only complaint is that some of us expected them to look like OEM but be of equal or better quality. We were mistaken.

Right now in my shop I have 4 Mercedes 2001-2004. It's not always like this but the German car folks seem to be having a run in the shop right now. There are (2) C Class, (1) E Class and (1) S Class. A 2002 325 BMW also came by today and I took notice of the seats in that as well. The grain, patina and quality on the set I have, to me looks like the material on the seats in these cars.
Doesn't have any or much odor like these cars do and that is too bad. I like the way the Benz and BMW leather smells.

Sjs, I'm giving my opinion on the product not on yours or anyone else' statements or posts.
 
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Well how's this for concerns...there is a tear in the leather on the center counsel side of the passenger seat I just recieved and was starting to install. I will be giving Steve a call first thing Monday and hope this will be handled immediately. I love the grain and the way the seats look, but it looks like I won't be enjoying them both in as I don't want to start putting in the self tappers until I talk to Steve :(

Here is a couple pics to see what I mean :mad:

seat1.jpg

seat2.jpg


I am sooooooo disapointed at this moment...such a high to such a low...I sure hope he handles this quickly. I haven't checked over the rest of the stuff yet as I was so mad I just walked away for awhile and posted here :(

Don
1994 Formula Red Single Turbo NSX
 
NSX Addict said:
Well how's this for concerns...there is a tear in the leather on the center counsel side of the passenger seat I just recieved and was starting to install.
I can't imagine how someone could be stitching those parts together and somehow miss a rip the size you show in your pictures.
 
The pictures that NSX Addict posted are disappointing to say the least. However, the leather grain looks OK from the pictures to me. I also did red stitching and it looks good on Don's seat covers. However, the tear is completely unacceptable. Also, these covers look like they are "bunched" in the side bolster areas. Maybe that will fix itself when installed? Don, let us know how this gets resolved with Steven. This seems to be turning into a bloody nightmare for many people and I haven't even received my seat covers yet!
 
I just talked to Steve and he said he would replace it without question. I emailed him pics so that he may see what I am talking about and he said he will get back to me in the next few hours.

The bunching you see is because its not fastend to the seat. The drivers seat looks beautiful when installed. I will take pics of it when I get a chance. I am just glad he is taking care of this problem correctly.

Don
 
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